Looks like Cutler will be staying..

[JoeyTourettes]

People see what they want to see. Jay's a polarizing figure.

Yells at a coach= he's an asshole
Yells at a teammate= He's an asshole who shouldn't do that- because he sucks too.
Forte catches a checkdown pass= Jay didn't see the open guy down the field.
Jay throws 3 touchdown passes in a win= Did you see the shitty interception he threw? Or the jerkface?
Bears lose a game= Jay's fault

Aaron Rodgers/Brady/Manning do any of those things= leader, smart, winner.
*cue the reply of: Well those guys are MVP QB's and have won SB's!! Jay hasn't won shit!

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

I don't see that stuff as a problem anymore Joey. Cutlers only problem is his play, it sucks. It is fully time to admit we don't have a good QB. We gave him everything and he did really bad with it. Don't give me numbers either, I saw the games.

 

[blh7068]

I don't see that stuff as a problem anymore Joey. Cutlers only problem is his play, it sucks. It is fully time to admit we don't have a good QB. We gave him everything and he did really bad with it. Don't give me numbers either, I saw the games.

Everything?? Really bad?? Last year, Trestman either didnt have a clue how manage a run game, or didnt see value in it. So, if you saw the games, it was easy to see the run game was inefficient and predictable. The lack of personnel employed to carry out a rush attack was a huge problem. Fortes numbers were hurt by that, along with the rest of the offense. As an aside, I wouldnt call being backed by the 32nd and 30th ranked defenses in PA the last two seasons advantageous, either. Ask yourself this- how many games do they win last year had Cutler not played with that defense?? Who starts? McCown? Fales? Clausen? Or how about inserting a QB from the carousel days- Moreno, Hutchinson, Quinn, Krenzel, or even Grossman? They dont even get to 5 wins with any of those QBS, IMO.

 

[anotheridiot]

Everything?? Really bad?? Last year, Trestman either didnt have a clue how manage a run game, or didnt see value in it. So, if you saw the games, it was easy to see the run game was inefficient and predictable. The lack of personnel employed to carry out a rush attack was a huge problem. Fortes numbers were hurt by that, along with the rest of the offense. As an aside, I wouldnt call being backed by the 32nd and 30th ranked defenses in PA the last two seasons advantageous, either. Ask yourself this- how many games do they win last year had Cutler not played with that defense?? Who starts? McCown? Fales? Clausen? Or how about inserting a QB from the carousel days- Moreno, Hutchinson, Quinn, Krenzel, or even Grossman? They dont even get to 5 wins with any of those QBS, IMO.

So you dont think Cutler was the one calling the audible from a run to a pass? Trestman game planned for the run, he called runs at the beginning of the game, they didnt work so THEY immediately bailed. There was no wear down of a defense getting run on over and over, it does not work for 5 plays, its gone.

That is the basic argument here being Trestman not calling runs or Jay changing the play to a pass because he sees a linebacker or safety in the place where the running back was gonna go and flat out did not trust his linemen to do their job. I think the reason they benched Cutler was because they wanted Claussen to stick to the run game and give it the chance and prove that Tresty was not the one abandoning the run. Three and out with one run and two incomplete or short passes or two runs and one pass is still a three and out. Another thing we will never know when Claussen was concussed.

 

[wood20ks]

People see what they want to see. Jay's a polarizing figure.

Yells at a coach= he's an asshole
Yells at a teammate= He's an asshole who shouldn't do that- because he sucks too.
Forte catches a checkdown pass= Jay didn't see the open guy down the field.
Jay throws 3 touchdown passes in a win= Did you see the shitty interception he threw? Or the jerkface?
Bears lose a game= Jay's fault

Aaron Rodgers/Brady/Manning do any of those things= leader, smart, winner.
*cue the reply of: Well those guys are MVP QB's and have won SB's!! Jay hasn't won shit!

Yells at players and coahe,he`s an asshole?.Sure is.So when he fucks up,does that give the right to all other personel to jump his ass?........sure does. And then BM is a locker room cancer.
3 tds and a pick?..I`ve never read on here anyone complaing about that stat. Only that it seems,he throws way too many that are actually his fault(and its a lot). He also can not hit a ide open receiver to save his soul.
Bears lose?.........its not his fault.( That's a team stat. But I would expect more when you have a top 5 rb,top wrs and a very very good te he can throw passes to. These games should be closer.

Sorry,but Jay is just not good..........he`s really not.......he`s no more than an average qb.

Damn it that's right...........he`s the best qb we have ever had........

keep drinking that koolaid.

 

[beardown07]

Jay lost his confidence last year. Kid's got loads of talent, it's just in between the ears....who could really blame him, when the collective world hates his ass. That's additional pressure.

I am really excited about the upcoming season. I am excited to see what this professional coaching staff can do. I think we see an immediate turn-around. Maybe not of epic proportions, but I expect to see better football next year. Better coaches, by a landslide.

There is no way possible it can be worse than the last two years, where we looked like a JV high school squad.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

People see what they want to see. Jay's a polarizing figure.

Yells at a coach= he's an asshole
Yells at a teammate= He's an asshole who shouldn't do that- because he sucks too.
Forte catches a checkdown pass= Jay didn't see the open guy down the field.
Jay throws 3 touchdown passes in a win= Did you see the shitty interception he threw? Or the jerkface?
Bears lose a game= Jay's fault

Aaron Rodgers/Brady/Manning do any of those things= leader, smart, winner.
*cue the reply of: Well those guys are MVP QB's and have won SB's!! Jay hasn't won shit!

I don't give a shit about whether he is an asshole or not. I don't care if he looks like he is pouting when the TV happens to show his face. All of that shit makes zero difference to me. I really only care about one thing. His play. And his play often sucks.

Comparing Jay Cutler to any of those QBs is an insult to the game of football.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Everything?? Really bad?? Last year, Trestman either didnt have a clue how manage a run game, or didnt see value in it. So, if you saw the games, it was easy to see the run game was inefficient and predictable. The lack of personnel employed to carry out a rush attack was a huge problem. Fortes numbers were hurt by that, along with the rest of the offense. As an aside, I wouldnt call being backed by the 32nd and 30th ranked defenses in PA the last two seasons advantageous, either. Ask yourself this- how many games do they win last year had Cutler not played with that defense?? Who starts? McCown? Fales? Clausen? Or how about inserting a QB from the carousel days- Moreno, Hutchinson, Quinn, Krenzel, or even Grossman? They dont even get to 5 wins with any of those QBS, IMO.

The bad defense was definitely a problem, no kidding. But let's pretend for a second that we had the identical offense, but at the defense's salary cap allocation, and the big money instead was on the defensive side of the ball. Given the identical offense, but a realistically-better defense, I would say the losses that flip to wins include maybe Carolina and the final game against Minnesota. That's it. And the Carolina game could have been won if the offense hadn't committed 4 turnovers.

I'm sure if we had some other mediocre QB last year, the team would have had a pretty similarly-bad offense. But without the largest cap hit in the league getting Hoovered into Cutler's bank account, we could have afforded a better defense. I don't think it would have mattered much, this still isn't a Super Bowl competing roster with or without Cutler, but it would at least have more building blocks.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

oh I must be smoking crack again or something. Just looking at the game logs, the defense actually played well enough to win the season finale. But I'll give you that the defense bears the majority of the blame for losing the Dallas game, so we are back to a 7-9 team instead of a 5-11 team.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Everything?? Really bad?? Last year, Trestman either didnt have a clue how manage a run game, or didnt see value in it. So, if you saw the games, it was easy to see the run game was inefficient and predictable. The lack of personnel employed to carry out a rush attack was a huge problem. Fortes numbers were hurt by that, along with the rest of the offense. As an aside, I wouldnt call being backed by the 32nd and 30th ranked defenses in PA the last two seasons advantageous, either. Ask yourself this- how many games do they win last year had Cutler not played with that defense?? Who starts? McCown? Fales? Clausen? Or how about inserting a QB from the carousel days- Moreno, Hutchinson, Quinn, Krenzel, or even Grossman? They dont even get to 5 wins with any of those QBS, IMO.

If those QBs don't throw a league leading amount of Ints or lead the league in fumbles then I see 3 extra wins. If the def is bad then you add turnovers then you compound the problem. Cutlers turnovers would be called force multipliers in the armed services. We could have had a great def and it would not have mattered much. Stop the turnovers and coach the def better. I don't blame the D players as much as the D coach. But I do blame Cutler as he would not even see the open WR.

 

[beardown07]

Cutler may be done. He looks like a shell of the player he once was, at least as far as seeing ghosts and happy feet. His confidence is the worst I've seen it, and that includes the first few years of dreadful o-lines and midget receivers.

It appears as tho the game has taken its toll on him.

 

[blh7068]

So you dont think Cutler was the one calling the audible from a run to a pass? Trestman game planned for the run, he called runs at the beginning of the game, they didnt work so THEY immediately bailed. There was no wear down of a defense getting run on over and over, it does not work for 5 plays, its gone.

That is the basic argument here being Trestman not calling runs or Jay changing the play to a pass because he sees a linebacker or safety in the place where the running back was gonna go and flat out did not trust his linemen to do their job. I think the reason they benched Cutler was because they wanted Claussen to stick to the run game and give it the chance and prove that Tresty was not the one abandoning the run. Three and out with one run and two incomplete or short passes or two runs and one pass is still a three and out. Another thing we will never know when Claussen was concussed.

Do I think he never did it? No. Do I think he did it all the time, or the frequency youre hinting at? No.

IOW- Im sure he did, but not to the point where I would say thats anywhere close to a reason they didnt run the ball effectively.

And no, its not the basic argument here. Its strictly your argument, one that doesnt include any frequency of the occurrence that youre claiming to be the problem.

My argument, once more- Bears were 30th in team carries. The featured back was ranked 5th individually. Forte carried the ball 266 times. Carey had 36 touches. There was no fullback on the roster. All of that is a HUGE red flag for me. That is not a "Cutler audibles from run to pass" thing. The mismanagement( that I believe directly fell out of that) is personnel related- and is 100% on the coaching staff and management.

 

[blh7068]

The bad defense was definitely a problem, no kidding. But let's pretend for a second that we had the identical offense, but at the defense's salary cap allocation, and the big money instead was on the defensive side of the ball. Given the identical offense, but a realistically-better defense, I would say the losses that flip to wins include maybe Carolina and the final game against Minnesota. That's it. And the Carolina game could have been won if the offense hadn't committed 4 turnovers.

I'm sure if we had some other mediocre QB last year, the team would have had a pretty similarly-bad offense. But without the largest cap hit in the league getting Hoovered into Cutler's bank account, we could have afforded a better defense. I don't think it would have mattered much, this still isn't a Super Bowl competing roster with or without Cutler, but it would at least have more building blocks.

Its possible, but that cant be assumed. The caveat is having more money to spend is completely independent of player availability...and to a lesser extent where they will play.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Eh... all of this- is you see what you want to see. If you believe Jay sucks that's what your going to see/focus on each game. If you think he's a good player- that's what you'll focus on. This will never change.

 

[blh7068]

f those QBs don't throw a league leading amount of Ints or lead the league in fumbles then I see 3 extra wins.

1- not every pick/ turnover is a worse case scenario.
2- Turnovers dont result in a linear increase in possessions for the opposition.

The Bears had 167 defensive drives last year. Rankings are normalized per drive.
30th in most yards per drive
32nd in points allowed per drive
28th in most plays per drive
28th in defensive TOP
32nd in tds allowed per drive
29th in punts forced per drive
30th in 3 n outs per drive

9th fewest in total red zone pts allowed
13th fewest in red zone TD's allowed

Not only does this prove that the defense was bad because they couldnt stop anyone, the last two strongly suggest that many of Cutlers mistakes werent a key contributor towards giving opponents the shorter fields. Most of the oppositions scoring took place outside of the RZ, and all of those 28th-32nd rankings support that.

His mistakes arent anywhere close to significantly impacting that lousy body of work from the defense I outlined. But youre telling me that 'x' fewer mistakes from him would adds 3 wins???

Thats not possible.

 

[blh7068]

Eh... all of this- is you see what you want to see. If you believe Jay sucks that's what your going to see/focus on each game. If you think he's a good player- that's what you'll focus on. This will never change.

Im as objective as they get. I accept him for what he is. There are better QBs, but there are plenty that are worse. As Bears fans, weve seen it. What Im adamant about is not making him the focal point for blame when its the other side of the ball thats been the clear liability the last two seasons. Once the defense becomes at least competitive again, that will be the time when a more informed decision can be made regarding Cutler. He is by far the best, and pretty much the only option right now.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Cutler may be done. He looks like a shell of the player he once was, at least as far as seeing ghosts and happy feet. His confidence is the worst I've seen it, and that includes the first few years of dreadful o-lines and midget receivers.

It appears as tho the game has taken its toll on him.

I think you are definitely onto something. I agree with you that he got shellshocked from years of terrible pass protection. I don't really fault him as a guy for this....I'm sure it would happen to anyone except a raging masochist.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

My argument, once more- Bears were 30th in team carries. The featured back was ranked 5th individually. Forte carried the ball 266 times. Carey had 36 touches. There was no fullback on the roster. All of that is a HUGE red flag for me. That is not a "Cutler audibles from run to pass" thing. The mismanagement( that I believe directly fell out of that) is personnel related- and is 100% on the coaching staff and management.

OK, I don't know this, I'm just putting forward an impression...but my sense is that the Bears rushing numbers were so low was because they fell behind early so often. If I remember correctly, earlier in the season there were a couple of games where the run/pass balance was off too much too early, I seem to recall that they adjusted for this around the bye week. And they started games off with appropriate run/pass balances, before falling behind and having to switch to passing.

 

[anotheridiot]

OK, I don't know this, I'm just putting forward an impression...but my sense is that the Bears rushing numbers were so low was because they fell behind early so often. If I remember correctly, earlier in the season there were a couple of games where the run/pass balance was off too much too early, I seem to recall that they adjusted for this around the bye week. And they started games off with appropriate run/pass balances, before falling behind and having to switch to passing.

I get the BLH terms, if the running game was not working, why didnt they try someone else. That is the part that was on the OC and Trestman for not taking Forte off the field without a doubt. The teams that rack up big rushing numbers are rarely doing that consistently all game, they wear down a defense and make running easier later in the game. I bet some of those plays would have worked if there was even a two back set.

I have made the cutler excuse before that his first year here his nutrition seemed completely fucked. Clearly pale, clearly without expression. Saw some of that look last year. I guess getting it beat thru my head over and over you can see that expression on Cutlers face when he clearly did not seem to agree with the call could have been how about a different back if you want me to run the same play that didnt work the last 10 times.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

[QUOTE="blh7068

His mistakes arent anywhere close to significantly impacting that lousy body of work from the defense I outlined. But youre telling me that 'x' fewer mistakes from him would adds 3 wins???

Thats not possible.[/QUOTE]
If your turning the ball over then your putting more on a bad def correct? And YES less turnovers = more wins, that is true for all teams. I'm not saying the def was good they were really bad, and so was Cutler. We lead the league in turnovers last year, if we lead the league in takeaways do you not see more wins from that? I do. Does not change the fact were a bad team but more wins for sure.