Looks like Cutler will be staying..

[JoeyTourettes]

ugh... It's the same thing over and over again.
AI still can't understand that it's a team game. Those OC's weren't fired simply because of Jay Cutler. They were fired for all the reasons MANY/Any OC is fired from the NFL. They couldn't produce offense. Simple as that. Couldn't produce O with crappy Olines, terrible WR's (Hester as a #1??) had predictable play calling, all of that.

I will pose the question. If they were such good OC's and simply "killed" by the "QB killer"...why haven't they found work elsewhere? Why were they fired from other jobs? Martz is my primary- he continued to call bad games and design game plans that didn't work with the personal he had. (and Jay played well with him)

Football is the ultimate team game. Please keep that in mind.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I think all of them have jobs now except for Martz.

And all of this talk of how Martz is supposedly old news and an idiot and all that is just so freaking stupid, the guy has one of the most brilliant football minds ever, and still does. OK, yes, he gambled that the offensive strategy that was best tailored to Cutler's strengths would work and it didn't because the blocking sucked. It's too bad, but it doesn't mean jack shit about how "crappy" he is. He's still a genius. Given that he has made a pile of money already in his life, and has a pretty cushy analyst job now, I don't find it that surprising that he didn't take some of the jobs teams were rumored to be interested in him for. Do you really blame him for not going to Cleveland? If you've done most of what you can do in this league, why would he need to grovel for some half-baked opening just to prove...what? To who? Bears board bloggers?

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Coaches need talent, Martz had Warner and he was brilliant, Martz had Cutler and failed. Same coach different QBs. AR's coach is brilliant, PMan always has brilliant coaches too. And that guy that coaches Brady don't even get me started. On a related note the guy that coached Peter Tom Willis sucked and was booed out of football..

 

[wood20ks]

ugh... It's the same thing over and over again.
AI still can't understand that it's a team game. Those OC's weren't fired simply because of Jay Cutler. They were fired for all the reasons MANY/Any OC is fired from the NFL. They couldn't produce offense. Simple as that. Couldn't produce O with crappy Olines, terrible WR's (Hester as a #1??) had predictable play calling, all of that.

I will pose the question. If they were such good OC's and simply "killed" by the "QB killer"...why haven't they found work elsewhere? Why were they fired from other jobs? Martz is my primary- he continued to call bad games and design game plans that didn't work with the personal he had. (and Jay played well with him)

Football is the ultimate team game. Please keep that in mind.

You need the talent to win.........Its more the talented players than it is the coaching.

You can not compare Warner,faulk,Bruce and Holt to Cutler,Forte,Marshall amd Alshon.....................You just can`t. That's 3 HOF`ers to none.And none of our players will ever make it there.

And I will say this.........................again!............Take any damn coach you want,from any damn team you want,from any era you want and lets see them take the browns,Raiders,bucs,Jets and a few more teams with the talent level they have and make them winners...........It can`t be done.

The best part of a coaching staff is the person that can draft the talent..........once you have that talent into place,most any coach other than probably Schwartz,can take a team to the playoffs and win.

 

[wood20ks]

You need the talent to win.........Its more the talented players than it is the coaching.

You can not compare Warner,faulk,Bruce and Holt to Cutler,Forte,Marshall amd Alshon.....................You just can`t. That's 3 HOF`ers to none.And none of our players will ever make it there.

And I will say this.........................again!............Take any damn coach you want,from any damn team you want,from any era you want and lets see them take the browns,Raiders,bucs,Jets and a few more teams with the talent level they have and make them winners...........It can`t be done.

The best part of a coaching staff is the person that can draft the talent..........once you have that talent into place,most any coach other than probably Schwartz,can take a team to the playoffs and win.

And to add on............Martz also had a HOF tackle in Jackie Slater.......We do not.

Warner also went to Arizona and took a team there to the SB......Different coaches,different team,different game plans than what Martz had(I`m guessing here).
Its the talent more than coaching...........

 

[anotheridiot]

I thought we signed LA RAMS pro bowl left tackle Orlando Pace that first year with Martz.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

You need all three. Talent alone does not do it, nor does coaching alone. And the third ingredient - black magic - may be the most important. Sometimes it's just the right combination and it's new enough to the league and it works for awhile, and there's no reason why other than the chemistry just happens.

 

[wood20ks]

I thought we signed LA RAMS pro bowl left tackle Orlando Pace that first year with Martz.

It was Pace and not Slater........my bad.lol


And when pace signed with us,he was old and broken down. And I think he lasted for only the one season.....

 

[wood20ks]

You need all three. Talent alone does not do it, nor does coaching alone. And the third ingredient - black magic - may be the most important. Sometimes it's just the right combination and it's new enough to the league and it works for awhile, and there's no reason why other than the chemistry just happens.

The problem with that bolded.........You can not coach talent. Because if you can,coach my kid to be an NFL qb..........

And yes,you also need the ball to bounce tyour way too.

This past post season in the NFC was bizarre. Every team that had it in the bag,lost it in the end by bizarre happenings.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

My thing with Martz was this:
He was fired from St.L after his guys got older and he wouldn't change his scheme to fit his personal. (and that he was difficult to work with)
Fired from Detroit after 2 years- I believe he was there for the 0-16 year. (not sure)
Fired from San Fran after 1 year... Didn't get along with someone. Stubborn.
Out of football for a season.
Hired by Former Roommate Lovie- After Lovie couldn't find anyone else. And Martz was looking to get back in. It was a LATE hire that year and last resort. And his scheme didn't fit the Bears personal esp. the OLine and WR group.

I'm not saying he wasn't a good coach once apon a time. He just couldn't sustain it and wouldn't adapt his playbook to his personal.

Some of you want to say it was Jay's fault he couldn't or "killed" Martz... (the *go fuck yourself comment) but really did all those other QB's that he coached aside from Warner "kill" him too? OR should Martz share the blame? Take most of it? That's my stance.

 

[anotheridiot]

It was Pace and not Slater........my bad.lol


And when pace signed with us,he was old and broken down. And I think he lasted for only the one season.....

Pace was hurt two years in a row, I think he played 8 games two seasons before aand then one game the year before the bears signed him, so he was broken, but playing about a half year of football over two seasons should have helped him a little.

My only point was they tried to find that guy to protect Jays blind side with a real experienced big name.

I pretty much throw that year away with Jay, the point I made about his diabetes he seemed really really out of it the late and nite games in 09. They didnt really pay attention to his nutrition and he was really screwed up that year and it had very little to do with football. He was right in 2010 and Pace was gone.

 

[blh7068]

I never wrote 100%.

There was the option to franchise Cutler, give him one more year to prove 2013 was not a fluke. Would have paid about the same, probably less with the signing bonus totalling 22 million.

The contract mentality was simple, pay the guy elite and maybe he finally plays elite, but final word is three years and we can be done.

Why is his play a fluke in 2013? The o line protected him, and he had 3 quality targets to throw to. It took a little while, but thats what happens when the QB is surrounded with linemen that can block, and downfield targets that can be trusted. The " heres more money, now play better" doesnt work. His talent ceiling is what it is, more money doesnt raise that.

Sure, they could have franchised him, and a one year tender(average of top five 2014 salaries at his position) probably would have been a little cheaper. However, the same problem of a year ago remains in place as I type- and thats they have no tangible options in place to move forward with at the QB position.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

However, the same problem of a year ago remains in place as I type- and thats they have no tangible options in place to move forward with at the QB position.

Including Jay Cutler himself. He is not an option that will result in a Super Bowl, so I don't see why it is warranted to pay him top dollar.

 

[anotheridiot]

Why is his play a fluke in 2013? The o line protected him, and he had 3 quality targets to throw to. It took a little while, but thats what happens when the QB is surrounded with linemen that can block, and downfield targets that can be trusted. The " heres more money, now play better" doesnt work. His talent ceiling is what it is, more money doesnt raise that.

Sure, they could have franchised him, and a one year tender(average of top five 2014 salaries at his position) probably would have been a little cheaper. However, the same problem of a year ago remains in place as I type- and thats they have no tangible options in place to move forward with at the QB position.

My real stat search saying that the bears had the #2 ranked offense in 2013 means 2013 was a very good year.

Who are you considering the quality targets in 2013? 2014 also had Alshon, Forte, Marshall and Bennett. What was the difference Johnny Knox bent in half backwards while stopping over the middle?

I went on to write, that they could have franchised him to prove that the #2 offense he ran would be a fluke if he did not repeat the same offensive ranking. He ran the #2 offense in all football during his free agent year. Got paid big, went back to where he was before playing for that free agent deal.

Maybe 2014 would have been better if he knew he had to work another year to get his deal.

I know we have to deal with Cutler for two more years. Its no reason to start looking past two years and draft Mariota if he falls to 7 so next year we arent here posting during dead season about "no other options, no plan for the future".

 

[blh7068]

Including Jay Cutler himself. He is not an option that will result in a Super Bowl, so I don't see why it is warranted to pay him top dollar.

I see what youre saying- and there is no correct answer. As I said, not paying him that money in order to keep him as the best option at the QB position doesnt guarantee the defensive improvement. Based on how bad the defense has been, its the greater liability of the 2 sides of the football. Maybe the thought of having another QB carousel like the Bears did for decades prior to Cutlers arrival has made me a tad gun-shy. I guess it depends on the comfort level with rolling the dice on another QB that very well may typify the play seen prior to Cutlers arrival. Cutler makes mistakes- we know that. However, since the mid 80s the closest thing the Bears have had (imo) to a playmaking QB of Cutlers ability is Kramer. The body of work from the QB position during that time has been poor to at best, game managing. At the end of the day, both sides of the ball need to be in closer balance- that really cant be denied. Cutler is here for at least one more year, and so far theyve signed players that have come from successful 3-4 schemes. I think with an entirely new coaching staff, the run game issues Ive mentioned will fix itself. Cutler isnt going to morph in to Aaron Rodgers, but I want to see what happens with him should the defensive improvements materialize.

 

[blh7068]

My real stat search saying that the bears had the #2 ranked offense in 2013 means 2013 was a very good year.

Who are you considering the quality targets in 2013? 2014 also had Alshon, Forte, Marshall and Bennett. What was the difference Johnny Knox bent in half backwards while stopping over the middle?

I went on to write, that they could have franchised him to prove that the #2 offense he ran would be a fluke if he did not repeat the same offensive ranking. He ran the #2 offense in all football during his free agent year. Got paid big, went back to where he was before playing for that free agent deal.

Maybe 2014 would have been better if he knew he had to work another year to get his deal.

I know we have to deal with Cutler for two more years. Its no reason to start looking past two years and draft Mariota if he falls to 7 so next year we arent here posting during dead season about "no other options, no plan for the future".

As for the underlined, I havent a clue as to what that comparison is about.

All I can say is you paint with a mighty big brush. Playing "back to where he was before playing for that free agent deal" certainly lacks definition.

Maybe 2014 would have been different had he worked another year. I doubt it. That doesnt change the systemic problems I cited with the run game, and doesnt make the defense play better. It also doesnt make the o line that started all 16 games together, and was a top 5 pass blocking unit in 2013 become the injury riddled, average at best pass blocking unit of 2014.

IMO, Cutlers cap liability for 2016 can easily be absorbed if they choose to cut him. QB is by far the most difficult position to scout. I sure wouldnt gamble on Mariota with a high first round pick, even if he is available at 7. Id much rather take a front 7 seven defensive prospect thats available. Its a weak QB class, Id have a hard time believing he'd grade out higher at his respective position than a top defensive prospect.

 

[anotheridiot]

As for the underlined, I havent a clue as to what that comparison is about.

You said he had quality receivers in 2013

Why is his play a fluke in 2013? The o line protected him, and he had 3 quality targets to throw to.

My underlined was he had the same 4 base receivers he had in 2014 as he did in 2013. You only mentioned three, I didnt think you meant anyone other than Marshall, Alshon, Bennett and Forte.

 

[blh7068]

You said he had quality receivers in 2013



My underlined was he had the same 4 base receivers he had in 2014 as he did in 2013. You only mentioned three, I didnt think you meant anyone other than Marshall, Alshon, Bennett and Forte.

Correct. What confused me was your sentence about Knox. His career ended late in the 2011 season.
??

I didnt include Forte because the TE's and WR typically play the primary roles of stretching the field.

Those three are considerably better than what Cutler had to work with prior to their arrival.

 

[anotheridiot]

Jay Cutler Autographed Football Doesn't Get Single Bid at Charity Auction | Bleacher Report

Dammit Joey, Jay was counting on you.

 

[Mr Steeler]

Chicago is resilient came back from the Chicago fire after all. The fans there are also not expecting much I mean they still go out to watch the cubs play and it's been over a century since they won a series.So all in all the perfect environment for Jay.