Let's Put It To Bed

[BOSS429Mustang]

We can now put to rest that Manning belongs with the elite class of great QBs. Granted, none of the Denver Broncos showed up in this one, but Manning was particularly bad, and was as much as any Bronco to blame for this pathetic showing. He's a great "regular season" QB, but I now drop him out of my top 10 QBs of all time with another "choke" performance in a big game. Him and the Broncos just looked intimidated from the very start. Great against those "girlie" defenses he faces in the AFC. When he plays a real defense....not so good.

 

[Jermaine133]

He played an nfc west defense... the nfc west is the sec of the nfl in my opinion. Gate way to the west is the gate way to the best. Stl is the gate keeper while the road ends with Seattle and san fran

 

[Clayton]

Ive seen Kurt Warner look like the best player in the NFL, then look totally washed up, then struggle as a backup in NY, then look like one of the best players in the NFL in Arizona.

A lot goes in to being a QB. This isn't the NBA. Its difficult to rate them.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

His playoff record is below .500. He often plays badly in pressure games. Even with all his "gyrations" he goes through, he can't elevate his team to a victory in big games. This game was a capsule summary of his career in that area. It is what it is. If I had my pick of QBs for a big game such as this, Peyton isn't even in my top 10.

 

[Red_Chaos]

His playoff record is below .500. He often plays badly in pressure games. Even with all his "gyrations" he goes through, he can't elevate his team to a victory in big games. This game was a capsule summary of his career in that area. It is what it is. If I had my pick of QBs for a big game such as this, Peyton isn't even in my top 10.

so then who is in your top ten?

 

[ozarkram]

Somedays just don't go your way. While I didn't watch much of the game. It seemed it just wasn't the Broncos day. My dad use to say that in a fight you need to get the first punch in that can dictate who wins and loses. I think thats what happened here the seahawks got first blood knocked the broncos down and kept them down. Today were they to play again things might be different. I don't think we can sweep Manning or any other QB under the rug from one poor showing. I think his overall body of work needs to be considered. Is Manning the best ever? No. Is he top tier? Yes.

 

[SJ76]

No offensive player likes getting drilled over and over and over. It takes a toll mentally and physically. Bottom line... Seattle came out and punched them in the mouth, but Denver didn't punch back. Seattle set the tone on D - hitting for sure.

I would have expected the Broncos to expect that physical of a game, but obviously they didn't know what it's like to play in the NFC West!

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Somedays just don't go your way. While I didn't watch much of the game. It seemed it just wasn't the Broncos day. My dad use to say that in a fight you need to get the first punch in that can dictate who wins and loses. I think thats what happened here the seahawks got first blood knocked the broncos down and kept them down. Today were they to play again things might be different. I don't think we can sweep Manning or any other QB under the rug from one poor showing. I think his overall body of work needs to be considered. Is Manning the best ever? No. Is he top tier? Yes.

I admire the class Manning shows in victory or defeat. And I was rooting for him in this one. But I also believe this game is a defining moment for him like it or not. He has sufficiently cemented his reputation as a "less than big game QB" His record speaks for itself. It is what it is. As a "great guy" I'd take him and Tim Tebow over anybody. But as a critical game QB, he's failed too many times to let "personality" get in the way of facts. Does this game tarnish his reputation? I believe it does. He still remains one of the greatest during the regular season, and statistically he may go down as the greatest. But somewhere or another you have to factor in championships, or at least performance in championships. I NEVER saw Montana fall apart like Manning did (does)

 

[SJ76]

You can't put this all on Manning. TheBroncos were simply not ready for a mega-physical game.

Give gredit to a great defenses and Wilson played a great game.

 

[bluepigpen]

How good is every team in the NFC West? No dogs here and the AFC is a step slower.

 

[Retroram52]

Boss, I am sure you are aware that Kurt Warner has the same Superbowl record as Manning. AS I am sure there are others as well. Both 1-2. I am not a big fan of comparisons but I suspect Warner might be the same camp now as Manning. Yes?

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

You can't put this all on Manning. TheBroncos were simply not ready for a mega-physical game.

Give gredit to a great defenses and Wilson played a great game.

All this may be true, but let's read between the lines here. At the beginning, Manning shouldn't have been attempting to change the play if he couldn't hear as he has claimed. Common sense--a mistake he probably wouldn't make under a less pressure situation. Next he overthrows his receiver for an interception, which he was doing all game long ( or underthrowing) which indicates a case of nerves to me. Then he tries to force a throw when he has a Seattle lineman right in his face instead of just taking a sack, which of course results in a pick 6. He was off the entire game. His play at the beginning of the game set the tone for the rest of the game. He is such an integral and important part (the most important part) of that team that the rest of the team's performance relies HEAVELY on him.

Of course you have to give credit to Seattle's defense that's obvious. But when do you stop giving credit to the other teams and begin to objectively see the trend that Peyton doesn't do well in these kind of games? And I'll say it before somebody else chimes in that every QB has bad games--that's also true. But other great QBs also have great games that they lead their team to victory also. I can only recall one game in particular that Manning brought Indianapolis back by carrying the team and that was a few years ago against New England when they went on to win the SB. And he was not particularly impressive in that SB victory either.

If he's playing a superior team, he's only one man. Marino couldn't get it done by himself either--I understand that argument as well. But this was the highest scoring offense in NFL history. You would expect that Manning could muster more than 8 points wouldn't you think? Seattle's defense is good, but I wouldn't rank it in the greatest of all time category. Wouldn't even put it in the 50 of all time. Lets be objective and compare apples to apples shall we.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Boss, I am sure you are aware that Kurt Warner has the same Superbowl record as Manning. AS I am sure there are others as well. Both 1-2. I am not a big fan of comparisons but I suspect Warner might be the same camp now as Manning. Yes?

True Retro. But Warner has had far less opportunities than Manning, and the one SB he did win there was no doubt he earned it, passing for over 400 yards and earning a very well deserved MVP. Manning wouldn't have performed nearly as well IMHO in that situation against the blistering Tennessee pass rush. Arguably it wasn't Warner's fault for losing to New England or Pittsburgh. He played very well against the Steelers, and we all know the reason(s) he lost to NE. I would have to take Warner over Manning in a big game like that.

 

[Vitamike]

I agree with Boss to some degree on this. If we are going to elevate 'em for winning the big one than we should relegate 'em when they lose the big one.

I don't know if I take him out of the top 10 however I'm pretty sure we wont be seeing this guy topping Joe Montana like we were seeing from some last week.

Amazing stat, the Broncos had a mere 37y rushing!

 

[Clayton]

I think we can all agree that we werent watching the #1 offense of all time. The Pats had a prime Brady, Welker and Moss. The Rams had a whole slew of options with the GSOT. The Broncos had a post prime Peyton who exploited mismatches in every team. Seattle had nothing to exploit. In the end, they exploited his 'ducks' and his inability to throw a deep ball

 

[SJ76]

Seattle brought the noise and body bags.

Like I said, they did it to Drew Brees twice this year and Manning yesterday. They would have done it to Brady, Rodgers, or anyone else.

That's what Great defenses do. Dominate.

Now... the real question here is: IF Kaep doesn't have 3 turnovers late in the NFC (West) Championship, do the 49ers dominate the Broncos?

And I say hell yeah they do.

A big W for the mobile QB yesterday. Kaep really gave Seattle the best game of any opponent this year. being mobile allows an offense to buy more time to throw and is a threat to run so it's harder to defend. Overall, the seattle pressure on D got to Colin K which caused those turnovers.... It happens to the greatest of QBs. But you saw yesterday what a pocket passer can do with great weapons against a bad ass defense. NADAH!


That's why I want a mobile QB. Russell Wilson is such a smart cookie too. Look at that boys weapons - even though having Percy helped tremendously.


It makes me want to go back and draft all Defense studs and another RB. Pound the fuck outta you - that's what Seattle does! And yeah that's what I was screamin 4 years ago for the Rams to do. but no.... we took a Pocket QB that didn't even play his last year in college, having a shitty O-line.

that is all

 

[LTR1961]

In how many of Manning's playoff games has he clealry had the best team? He is the reason many of those Colts teams got as for as they did and last night, as much as it pains me to say it, the Seahawks were clearly the better team. Hell Denver probably would have finished 3rd in the NFC West and out of the playoffs. People tend to forget that football is a team game. Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien and Joe Theismann have rings, Elis has 2 and Bradshaw has 4. Manning would play circles around all of those guys if all things were equal. He's is an elite QB and one of the top 5 of all time.

 

[LTR1961]

Like I said, they did it to Drew Brees twice this year and Manning yesterday. They would have done it to Brady, Rodgers, or anyone else.

Great point. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[Clayton]

Now... the real question here is: IF Kaep doesn't have 3 turnovers late in the NFC (West) Championship, do the 49ers dominate the Broncos?

And I say hell yeah they do.

The Niners would have had Bowman and Iupati hurt, right? The matchup would have been a little more even but I think the Broncos still would have lost

On paper, Bradford has decent mobility, btw. If you think he should be scrambling more, thats on the OC

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

True Retro. But Warner has had far less opportunities than Manning, and the one SB he did win there was no doubt he earned it, passing for over 400 yards and earning a very well deserved MVP. Manning wouldn't have performed nearly as well IMHO in that situation against the blistering Tennessee pass rush. Arguably it wasn't Warner's fault for losing to New England or Pittsburgh. He played very well against the Steelers, and we all know the reason(s) he lost to NE. I would have to take Warner over Manning in a big game like that.

Warner has the top 3 passing games in SB history.

If it wasn't for the two pick 6's he threw ( one in each loss ), he is 3 for 3. Oh, and his defenses didn't stop the opponent after tying the one game late and taking the lead late in the other.