Kyrie Irving is now a...

[CitySushi]

post those whole lists.....lets see them instead of cherry picking certain advanced stats out of context.

on the Whiteside vs. Thompson thread people ACTUALLY found evidence that Thompson was the most efficient offensive player in the league and Whiteside the most efficient defensive player in the league. Not all advanced stats are created equally.

provide a little context and reasoning behind it instead of pulling cherry picked stats out of your ass.

At first- i was surprised by @CitySushi comment about Curry being 11th in the MVP voting- until i remembered how MVPvoting works.

LeBron won with 1207 points. Curry had 3 points- which is likely 1 guy voting for him and listing him 7th out of 10.

Now- 11th sounds fairly impressive, until you realize 3 points means nothing- and guys like Ty Lawson, Noah etc. either had just as many if not tons more- and no one in their right mind would ever call them legit MVP contenders.

Why would you be surprised? Curry averaged 22.9 ppg, 6.9 assist, and 4.0 rebounds a game. That's a fantastic season for anyone not named Lebron.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? Your escalating tone is a bit much for a debate over really what boils down to personal opinion.

What it ultimately comes down to is a matter of opinion. Stating your opinion as fact, when there are tons of other things out there that validate Curry before your believe he came out of no where. Many, many people viewed Curry as a rising star at the time. Simply ignoring this doesn't make it not true. Just as you've said the MVP voting takes into account other factors, and just as easily could have negatively impacted Curry too.

At worst would you agree that during that season Curry was a top 20 player? If so, that still means he didn't come out of nowhere. Being that there are 450 players in the NBA in any given season, that's still saying something.

your post was totally and completely misleading representing like 11th in the MVP voting demonstrated some kind of league consensus when it could not be farther from the truth- thats what i was saying

do you think 3 points in the MVP voting when there are literally thousands of points awarded is materially significant? 1 local reporter out of dozens voting listing him 7th out of 10 means something? lol...cmon.

 

[knowyourenemy]

You wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? Your escalating tone is a bit much for a debate over really what boils down to personal opinion.

What it ultimately comes down to is a matter of opinion. Stating your opinion as fact, when there are tons of other things out there that validate Curry before your believe he came out of no where. Many, many people viewed Curry as a rising star at the time. Simply ignoring this doesn't make it not true. Just as you've said the MVP voting takes into account other factors, and just as easily could have negatively impacted Curry too.

At worst would you agree that during that season Curry was a top 20 player? If so, that still means he didn't come out of nowhere. Being that there are 450 players in the NBA in any given season, that's still saying something.

I'm pretty sure this was discussed already and he does not agree that Curry was a top 20 player that year.

 

[CitySushi]

your post was totally and completely misleading representing like 11th in the MVP voting demonstrated some kind of league consensus when it could not be farther from the truth- thats what i was saying

do you think 3 points in the MVP voting when there are literally thousands of points awarded is materially significant?

In a season where Lebron commanded 120 out of the 121 MVP 1st place votes, yes, it's a big deal. Shows that there wasn't much parity at the top, but there was among the lower players.

 

[WiggyRuss]

just so everyone knows--- I am almost SURE this is how the MVP voting works--

2013-14 NBA Awards Voting | Basketball-Reference.com

Max of 1250 points.

I believe that means there are 125 reporters at various newspapers voting- and each one gets 1 ballot whereh e lists 1-10.....#1 gets 10 points , while 10th place gets 1 point etc.

So...if Curry got 3 points, as compared to leBrons 1207 that year...it likely means he showed up on 1 ballot in 7th place... (or theoretically 3 ballots in 10th place)...etc.

 

[CitySushi]

I'm pretty sure this was discussed already and he does not agree that Curry was a top 20 player that year.

Whoa missed that. Not even top 20 that year? Well ok then I guess anything else I post from now on is pointless.

22.9 ppg, 6.9 assist, 4.0 rebounds, best player on a team that went to the second round of the playoffs = Not top 20. Makes total sense.

 

[knowyourenemy]

post those whole lists.....lets see them instead of cherry picking certain advanced stats out of context.

on the Whiteside vs. Thompson thread people ACTUALLY found evidence that Thompson was the most efficient offensive player in the league and Whiteside the most efficient defensive player in the league. Not all advanced stats are created equally.

provide a little context and reasoning behind it instead of pulling cherry picked stats out of your ass.

At first- i was surprised by @CitySushi comment about Curry being 11th in the MVP voting- until i remembered how MVPvoting works.

LeBron won with 1207 points. Curry had 3 points- which is likely 1 guy voting for him and listing him 7th out of 10.

Now- 11th sounds fairly impressive, until you realize 3 points means nothing- and guys like Ty Lawson, Noah etc. either had just as many if not tons more- and no one in their right mind would ever call them legit MVP contenders.

do you think its relevant that 1 reporter- likely a local reporter listed Curry 7th out of 10 on one ballot? i sure as hell dont.

I don't care about the MVP voting. Haven't mentioned it at all.

I'm not cherry picking stats. I went to the league leaders board on basketball-reference and listed the ones where he was in the top 10. There are plenty of others where he isn't in the top 10 but still doesn't have poor numbers. All of that is mere evidence that somebody could use to argue that Curry was a top 10 player that year. But regardless of whether he was top 10 or top 20 or wherever you want to rank him, he did not come out of nowhere. He may have elevated his game to a level that people didn't think he could reach, but he didn't come out of nowhere.

 

[WiggyRuss]

In a season where Lebron commanded 120 out of the 121 MVP 1st place votes, yes, it's a big deal. Shows that there wasn't much parity at the top, but there was among the lower players.

there are 125 voters...he was likely either listed on 1 ballot in 7th place, or 3 ballots in 10th place.

You are saying that is significant?

just checking your sanity...

 

[CitySushi]

just so everyone knows--- I am almost SURE this is how the MVP voting works--

2013-14 NBA Awards Voting | Basketball-Reference.com

Max of 1250 points.

I believe that means there are 125 reporters at various newspapers voting- and each one gets 1 ballot whereh e lists 1-10.....#1 gets 10 points , while 10th place gets 1 point etc.

So...if Curry got 3 points, as compared to leBrons 1207 that year...it likely means he showed up on 1 ballot in 7th place... (or theoretically 3 ballots in 10th place)...etc.

There's only 5 voting places. Just fyi.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Al Jefferson was 8th that year with 34 points!!! lol....DEFINITELY top 10 player in the league right

 

[WiggyRuss]

There's only 5 voting places. Just fyi.

Since the 1980–81 season, the award is decided by a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada, each of whom casts a vote for first to fifth place selections. Each first-place vote is worth 10 points; each second-place vote is worth seven; each third-place vote is worth five, fourth-place is worth three and fifth-place is worth one. Starting from 2010, one ballot was cast by fans through online voting. The player with the highest point total wins the award.[2] As of May 2016, the current holder of the award is Stephen Curry, who won both the 2015 and 2016 MVP Awards.

wtf are you talking about? There are DOZENS of voters.

ohh...you meant they only vote for 1-5...my bad...

 

[CitySushi]

there are 125 voters...he was likely either listed on 1 ballot in 7th place, or 3 ballots in 10th place.

You are saying that is significant?

just checking your sanity...

The MVP voting was just to show that there are other opinions out there that have Curry rated higher. It was just shown as proof that he didn't come out of nowhere and that at some point in time he was at least acknowledged for his excellence. If you want to dismiss it, that's fine. I'm not holding on to it as my only proof. The more significant proof was that he lead his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs that year, being the best player on his team and having a stellar productive season.

Sure go ahead and disregard this one. If I was opposing the argument I would too. But to blatantly disregard any success he had during that season and still believe he wasn't a top 20 player during the course of that year is just ridiculous.

I challenge you to name 19 players who had a better season that year than Curry. Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

[CitySushi]

Since the 1980–81 season, the award is decided by a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada, each of whom casts a vote for first to fifth place selections. Each first-place vote is worth 10 points; each second-place vote is worth seven; each third-place vote is worth five, fourth-place is worth three and fifth-place is worth one. Starting from 2010, one ballot was cast by fans through online voting. The player with the highest point total wins the award.[2] As of May 2016, the current holder of the award is Stephen Curry, who won both the 2015 and 2016 MVP Awards.

wtf are you talking about? There are DOZENS of voters.

I said there are only 5 ballot selections. You said he got a 7th place or 10th place vote.

 

[knowyourenemy]

You know what came out of nowhere? Kyrie Irving's performance in the Finals. Up until then, I don't think anyone thought he had it in him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

st Place (10 points)
2nd Place (7 points)
3rd Place (5 points)
4th Place (3 points)
5th Place (1 poin

so--- my bad...Curry wouldh ave gotten 1 4th place vote out of 125 reporters....or 3 5th place votes out of 125 votes.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The MVP voting was just to show that there are other opinions out there that have Curry rated higher. It was just shown as proof that he didn't come out of nowhere and that at some point in time he was at least acknowledged for his excellence. If you want to dismiss it, that's fine. I'm not holding on to it as my only proof. The more significant proof was that he lead his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs that year, being the best player on his team and having a stellar productive season.

Sure go ahead and disregard this one. If I was opposing the argument I would too. But to blatantly disregard any success he had during that season and still believe he wasn't a top 20 player during the course of that year is just ridiculous.

I challenge you to name 19 players who had a better season that year than Curry. Go ahead, I'll wait.

other opinions?

you mean 1 guy out of 125 that likely worked for the Chronicle? lol

solid data. 00.75% of the voters thought he was top 4 that year.

i think ill get a greater percentage of the vote for President this fall as will Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

 

[knowyourenemy]

The MVP voting was just to show that there are other opinions out there that have Curry rated higher. It was just shown as proof that he didn't come out of nowhere and that at some point in time he was at least acknowledged for his excellence. If you want to dismiss it, that's fine. I'm not holding on to it as my only proof. The more significant proof was that he lead his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs that year, being the best player on his team and having a stellar productive season.

Sure go ahead and disregard this one. If I was opposing the argument I would too. But to blatantly disregard any success he had during that season and still believe he wasn't a top 20 player during the course of that year is just ridiculous.

I challenge you to name 19 players who had a better season that year than Curry. Go ahead, I'll wait.

I asked him to do this a few days ago. I'm still waiting.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

What'd I miss...?

Wiggy is being a twatwaffel again

 

[CitySushi]

I asked him to do this a few days ago. I'm still waiting.

Thread ends, without Wiggy updating a top 20 list for that season.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You know what came out of nowhere? Kyrie Irving's performance in the Finals. Up until then, I don't think anyone thought he had it in him.

i dunno....

he was the:

Rookie of the Year
World Champion
FIBA Tourney MVP
All Star Game MVP
Rising Stars Challenge MVP
One of the youngest all stars in NBA history (only younger are Isiah, KG, LeBron, Kobe, Durant, Shaq)
Multiple All Star appearances
Only 50+ point game ever against Pop in SAS when he went for 55
Dropped the two highest scoring games in the NBA 2 years ago- the 55 vs. SAS- which occured just a few weeks after his 52 point performance (which was a FLUKE according to most) against Portland where he hit a game winner
The fact that the game he DID play in the Finals the previous year was one of his bests
the Fact that he has been amazing in clutch situations and has hit some of the most game winners in the league since he was drafted
The fact he was the #1 overall pick

I mean - i guess i can see where you didnt expect much out of him i guess, lol

by far and away MUCH better than any prospect the Sixers have touched in years. If Simmons because 1/2 of what Kyrie has become you would be ECSTATIC.