Joey Bosa...not signed, which side do you fall?

[ATL96Steeler]

Your right that this will do more harm then good for Bosa, unless the Chargers fold. However it's the only way for players to gain in the long run. Someone needs to stand firm to a employer who wants to dictate terms, otherwise you can expect the Chargers never to bend.
So for the greater good for players in general I hope he wins this battle of will.

I'm 100% with you on the principle of gaining leverage...but pick another battle, this one is not worth the blood sweat and tears to me. The kid will make more money guaranteed than any other 3rd pick overall under the new CBA...I would fight harder to get it all during the season even if deferred, and maybe they are, but 2 weeks into camp...nah, I give, gimme my money!

 

[wazzu31]

We're kinda taking this in another direction but it's related...okay, maybe it was a jab and right hook...lol. I don't think it was the focal point of the article though.

The players agreed to the rookie cap because the thought was more money would be available to vets so that wasn't an outright concession or cave...I think the author kind of swung and missed on that...as it turned out more money went to the elite, but some mid level FA have benefited as well.

Which is the problem for the NFL PA IMO. There shouldn't ever be precedent or even fans remotely siding with a player. The NFLPA ( rightfully so) conceded the rookie scales. But there issue was it's not black and white what the contracts say. With how much players gave us in the CBA a guy drafted shouldn't need an agent until their second contract but the NFLPA is weak Union and it's a shame because the players should have all the leverage with negotiations. Such as exactly how contracts are laid out for rookies, zero chance of extending the season unless it's voting on by players, these stupid ass games in foreign countries and finally the rules committee. The players have no say in it while they generate the most revenue in sports in this country.

A union is designed to not have the public on their side 99%, which is the entire point of their dues. They shouldn't be paying one cent to Smith and Co when they negotiate from weakness. Fans were in an uproar over scab referees, how bad would they be if it were scab playing. Fans love football but attendance would scarce which would lose millions of dollars for owners since the NFL has already priced themselves into a hardcore fan could easily sit at home and watch the game instead of going to watch an arena league game on a bigger field.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Which is the problem for the NFL PA IMO. There shouldn't ever be precedent or even fans remotely siding with a player. The NFLPA ( rightfully so) conceded the rookie scales. But there issue was it's not black and white what the contracts say. With how much players gave us in the CBA a guy drafted shouldn't need an agent until their second contract but the NFLPA is weak Union and it's a shame because the players should have all the leverage with negotiations. Such as exactly how contracts are laid out for rookies, zero chance of extending the season unless it's voting on by players, these stupid ass games in foreign countries and finally the rules committee. The players have no say in it while they generate the most revenue in sports in this country.

A union is designed to not have the public on their side 99%, which is the entire point of their dues. They shouldn't be paying one cent to Smith and Co when they negotiate from weakness. Fans were in an uproar over scab referees, how bad would they be if it were scab playing. Fans love football but attendance would scarce which would lose millions of dollars for owners since the NFL has already priced themselves into a hardcore fan could easily sit at home and watch the game instead of going to watch an arena league game on a bigger field.

I like the first part.. Some will get an agent just for endorsements, but yeah, should be completely pointless on the first deal. I don't think that the NFL would push too hard on the NFLPA to word them all the same, a small amount of give and take. That is a great idea. Of course this is the first holdout I can think of relating to rookie deals that took any noticeable time since the new CBA, so they did get it pretty good but they should just close that up the next CBA.


As for the 2nd part, players careers make a strike a loss no matter what for them. Say the holdout is 5% more salary. A HUGE bump for them. Well if the average career is just over 3 years, then a 5 game strike is 10% of their career. If they hold out for a year that's 30% of their potential earnings in the league. Ask Tom Benson how badly he's been set back by the strike he had to deal with.


And with the drop in fans arguable following a strike, they probably won't see that 5% bump for a few years as the leagues revenue may go stagnant. A strike only helps those in the elite tier at best (the long career guys), and those who have yet to join (and we've already seen what the NFLPA thinks about upcoming rookies with their deal on the new rookie wage scale).


So the league knows a strike really hurts both sides sure. But they've got the finances to withstand it, and the decades of ownership to get that revenue back. They know a large number of players take out loans in the off-season because they can't make 2 million last through the off-season too. It's a card that really is almost impossible for the players to play and the NFL knows it.


The rules committee I don't think would be a big deal for the NFL to give up a couple spots there.

Now as for the conduct policy and such, again you are needing to give up something to try and get the NFL to hand that back. And you are doing that for the 3% or whatever who end up in trouble and it affects. It's tough to convince 51 guys on a team who've never been punished for anything nor think they ever will be to give up money or other things for the 2 guys who were suspended for beating their wives.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Which is the problem for the NFL PA IMO. There shouldn't ever be precedent or even fans remotely siding with a player. The NFLPA ( rightfully so) conceded the rookie scales. But there issue was it's not black and white what the contracts say. With how much players gave us in the CBA a guy drafted shouldn't need an agent until their second contract but the NFLPA is weak Union and it's a shame because the players should have all the leverage with negotiations. Such as exactly how contracts are laid out for rookies, zero chance of extending the season unless it's voting on by players, these stupid ass games in foreign countries and finally the rules committee. The players have no say in it while they generate the most revenue in sports in this country.

A union is designed to not have the public on their side 99%, which is the entire point of their dues. They shouldn't be paying one cent to Smith and Co when they negotiate from weakness. Fans were in an uproar over scab referees, how bad would they be if it were scab playing. Fans love football but attendance would scarce which would lose millions of dollars for owners since the NFL has already priced themselves into a hardcore fan could easily sit at home and watch the game instead of going to watch an arena league game on a bigger field.

1st off...Rockinkuwait nailed it with his post.

Agents...agree, there shouldn't be much need on the rookie deal, but if you're a 1st rd pick, a good agent can get you visibility and endorsement income.

NFLPA...I think maybe you're not giving the NFLPA much credit...yes, they look weak compared to the other pro team sports unions, but these are far from apple to apple comparisons. Even if the current NFLPA leadership were stellar, negotiations are always give and take, so realizing from whence they've come, the players have made substantial gains in income, guaranteed income, safety protocol, and long term healthcare.

Games in foreign countries...It may seem silly, but exposure creates new markets, and new markets equal incremental revenue which ultimately filters down to the players. The current players may not realize it, but future NFL players will.

NFLPA...one area I've long felt they could improve is financial planning for the players...far too many players leave the game after 2, 3, or 4 years have literally nothing tangible to show for their hard work....it's difficult to explain to a pro athlete that will make $1.4 mil in 4 yrs, that they really need to have a life style of a person that makes about $50k a yr for that money to last them 20-25 yrs.

 

[Broncos6482]

1st off...Rockinkuwait nailed it with his post.

Agents...agree, there shouldn't be much need on the rookie deal, but if you're a 1st rd pick, a good agent can get you visibility and endorsement income.

NFLPA...I think maybe you're not giving the NFLPA much credit...yes, they look weak compared to the other pro team sports unions, but these are far from apple to apple comparisons. Even if the current NFLPA leadership were stellar, negotiations are always give and take, so realizing from whence they've come, the players have made substantial gains in income, guaranteed income, safety protocol, and long term healthcare.

Games in foreign countries...It may seem silly, but exposure creates new markets, and new markets equal incremental revenue which ultimately filters down to the players. The current players may not realize it, but future NFL players will.

NFLPA...one area I've long felt they could improve is financial planning for the players...far too many players leave the game after 2, 3, or 4 years have literally nothing tangible to show for their hard work....it's difficult to explain to a pro athlete that will make $1.4 mil in 4 yrs, that they really need to have a life style of a person that makes about $50k a yr for that money to last them 20-25 yrs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the NFL actually offers seminars on how to be smart with your money when rookies come into the league. And I believe (again, correct me if I'm wrong) that a lot of players don't bother attending. At some point the onus is on the player's to not blow through their money like it's a never ending supply.

 

[Manster7588]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the NFL actually offers seminars on how to be smart with your money when rookies come into the league. And I believe (again, correct me if I'm wrong) that a lot of players don't bother attending. At some point the onus is on the player's to not blow through their money like it's a never ending supply.

They have financial seminars, drug seminars, gold digger seminars, condom seminars, but a good portion don't listen.

 

[cdumler7]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the NFL actually offers seminars on how to be smart with your money when rookies come into the league. And I believe (again, correct me if I'm wrong) that a lot of players don't bother attending. At some point the onus is on the player's to not blow through their money like it's a never ending supply.

They are given a seminar on how best to save their money. Some listen and of course a big chunk do not. I remember being 21 and thinking eventually money would just start flowing in so saving at 21 wasn't a big deal so I can understand them just thinking that with them making so much money that it will last forever.

The other issue is that some of the financial advice they are being given by the NFLPA is not very good. Such as they have a list of "trusted" financial advisers for the players to choose from. The issue is they have very little criteria to get on the list of trusted advisers. Pretty much they pay a fee to the NFLPA and then they do a background check that doesn't go very deep into the history of the person. So plenty of names on the list are people who have been found for fraud or are in the middle of lawsuits for financial scams. Heck back in 2014 there were 2 names on the list that had cost players $73 million at that point. Another had cost players close to $100 million. Players are encouraged though over and over again to only use the names on this list.

 

[SonnyCID]

We all know how much 22 year old men love seminars!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the NFL actually offers seminars on how to be smart with your money when rookies come into the league. And I believe (again, correct me if I'm wrong) that a lot of players don't bother attending. At some point the onus is on the player's to not blow through their money like it's a never ending supply.

The onus is always on the player from the outset...but it's hard for us to wrap our heads around a situation where you literally have no money, and in some cases, no bank account...and all of a sudden you get a check for $200-300k. I've heard stories of young Falcon rookies literally asking vets where to cash their game checks!

The most teams all have their own rookie seminars which are mandatory and some are hosting financial planners. But it take more than a seminar and it's learned. A golf buddy of mine...his brother used to travel on golf trips with us...one year brought along his friend...inherited a million from his grandfather (oil money)...within 5 yrs, he was broke and indebt....true story.

 

[cdumler7]

The onus is always on the player from the outset...but it's hard for us to wrap our heads around a situation where you literally have no money, and in some cases, no bank account...and all of a sudden you get a check for $200-300k. I've heard stories of young Falcon rookies literally asking vets where to cash their game checks!

The most teams all have their own rookie seminars which are mandatory and some are hosting financial planners. But it take more than a seminar and it's learned. A golf buddy of mine...his brother used to travel on golf trips with us...one year brought along his friend...inherited a million from his grandfather (oil money)...within 5 yrs, he was broke and indebt....true story.

Alfred Williams tells the story of when he was a rookie he had his signing bonus put into a bank account and then he hid all of his game checks for the year under his mattress. At the end of the year whoever writes the checks called him and told him he needed to do something about that so he finally after a year put the checks in a bank account.

You are right many of these guys are coming from nothing and have no clue what they are doing. It is why some of them get arrest warrants for not paying parking tickets because they don't know what they should do or that it is a big deal.

You are asking a 21 year old to think 50 years into the future. Some are smart enough to understand to plan that way but the majority have no clue. Throw in then they have family that have no clue either and just see that they are connected to a meal ticket and take advantage of the good nature of the player. Go look up the story of the LT for the Cowboys and how he had to cut his family completely off and when he did they showed up at his house and demanded more money. He had to call the police on his own family.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

They are given a seminar on how best to save their money. Some listen and of course a big chunk do not. I remember being 21 and thinking eventually money would just start flowing in so saving at 21 wasn't a big deal so I can understand them just thinking that with them making so much money that it will last forever.

The other issue is that some of the financial advice they are being given by the NFLPA is not very good. Such as they have a list of "trusted" financial advisers for the players to choose from. The issue is they have very little criteria to get on the list of trusted advisers. Pretty much they pay a fee to the NFLPA and then they do a background check that doesn't go very deep into the history of the person. So plenty of names on the list are people who have been found for fraud or are in the middle of lawsuits for financial scams. Heck back in 2014 there were 2 names on the list that had cost players $73 million at that point. Another had cost players close to $100 million. Players are encouraged though over and over again to only use the names on this list.

A lot of those scams are investment deals and many pro athletes have gotten caught up in that...Silver medalist in golf...Henrik Stenson was taken for several million. Fortunately he was young enough and good enough to recoup some of it and is now on good financial footing.

A lot of these NFL players need the basics...the understanding that their careers and cash flow could be over in one snap.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Alfred Williams tells the story of when he was a rookie he had his signing bonus put into a bank account and then he hid all of his game checks for the year under his mattress. At the end of the year whoever writes the checks called him and told him he needed to do something about that so he finally after a year put the checks in a bank account.

You are right many of these guys are coming from nothing and have no clue what they are doing. It is why some of them get arrest warrants for not paying parking tickets because they don't know what they should do or that it is a big deal.

You are asking a 21 year old to think 50 years into the future. Some are smart enough to understand to plan that way but the majority have no clue. Throw in then they have family that have no clue either and just see that they are connected to a meal ticket and take advantage of the good nature of the player. Go look up the story of the LT for the Cowboys and how he had to cut his family completely off and when he did they showed up at his house and demanded more money. He had to call the police on his own family.

Alfred...that's new school, old school!

Asking a 21 y/o to think 20-30 yrs ahead is extremely difficult, and it's very difficult for them to understand they really shouldn't be living the life of a pro athlete when they are indeed pro athletes.

My buddy's friend with the oil money...he thought his million was making enough interest for him to live on...but a $300k home in DAL, a $250k condo in Vail, a Porsche, Escalade, a bass boat, trips, expensive dinners...he bought most of that stuff on terms leaving the lump sum in the bank, but he was eating into the principle every month on his living expenses.

 

[The Q]

Any player who agrees to offer language is stupid. Should be a complete nonstarter. What other teams will pay you should have no bearing on your contract you sign now.

 

[cdumler7]

A lot of those scams are investment deals and many pro athletes have gotten caught up in that...Silver medalist in golf...Henrik Stenson was taken for several million. Fortunately he was young enough and good enough to recoup some of it and is now on good financial footing.

A lot of these NFL players need the basics...the understanding that their careers and cash flow could be over in one snap.

For me the problem though is it is the NFLPA setting these players up with these guys. They do a basic background check and take the Financial Advisers money to get their name on the list. That is it and then are telling these players only trust our guys with your millions. Agents of the players are very upset at the NFLPA for the joke of a list and actually tell their players to stay away. The NFLPA sends out memos every year to the agents urging them to encourage the players to pick off this list. Just a broken system that it seems like the NFLPA cares more about getting the money of these agents than they do about the financial concerns of the players.

 

[cdumler7]

Alfred...that's new school, old school!

Asking a 21 y/o to think 20-30 yrs ahead is extremely difficult, and it's very difficult for them to understand they really shouldn't be living the life of a pro athlete when they are indeed pro athletes.

My buddy's friend with the oil money...he thought his million was making enough interest for him to live on...but a $300k home in DAL, a $250k condo in Vail, a Porsche, Escalade, a bass boat, trips, expensive dinners...he bought most of that stuff on terms leaving the lump sum in the bank, but he was eating into the principle every month on his living expenses.

Oh I agree it is extremely difficult especially for these players who have barely had a dollar to their name. For the first time ever they can afford the things they could only dream about as a kid and just go a bit crazy. Heck I remember my first big pay check of my life beyond just making minimum wage at a college job and I went out and bought a new bike and a new tv. Then all of a sudden all that new money that should have gone to all my new expenses with being an adult was gone. Thankfully learned from that pretty quickly and am in a great financial situation now but it took me a few years to learn and for these players not all of them have a few years to figure it out.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

For me the problem though is it is the NFLPA setting these players up with these guys. They do a basic background check and take the Financial Advisers money to get their name on the list. That is it and then are telling these players only trust our guys with your millions. Agents of the players are very upset at the NFLPA for the joke of a list and actually tell their players to stay away. The NFLPA sends out memos every year to the agents urging them to encourage the players to pick off this list. Just a broken system that it seems like the NFLPA cares more about getting the money of these agents than they do about the financial concerns of the players.

Yeah...I've heard Casey Hampton, and Ike Taylor say that...apparently Ike has done very well with his money...of course he made a ton more than the average guy.

IMO, if you're not a 1st round pick...you should probably rent, or buy a small condo or townhome and put your money in a safe investment like a conservative mutual fund...any kind of risk investment can wait until you get your feet underneath you.

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah...I've heard Casey Hampton, and Ike Taylor say that...apparently Ike has done very well with his money...of course he made a ton more than the average guy.

IMO, if you're not a 1st round pick...you should probably rent, or buy a small condo or townhome and put your money in a safe investment like a conservative mutual fund...any kind of risk investment can wait until you get your feet underneath you.

Or if you want a bigger place/house then rent with some other rookies. You could get a very nice place if you pool your money together. Heck we were looking at this incredible home in AZ a while back that just blew us away with something like 8 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, pool in the backyard, beautiful on the interior and it was $4000 a month. Find 3 guys to rent with you and that is dirt cheap for a rookie contract for most of them.

The best way I have heard of a rookie handling his situation is figuring out how much he was going to make over the next 2 years and then dividing that by 20 and that being how much he had to live on for the year. It came out to something like living on $50,000 a year if he wanted his money to last for the next 20 years. So he and his wife were living in a small apartment, driving a pretty cheap car, and really didn't spend lavishly. He then said that if his career went longer than 2-years they would adjust some but still figured they could live comfortably on $50,000 a year and could lots figured out in that 20 years to live beyond that.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Oh I agree it is extremely difficult especially for these players who have barely had a dollar to their name. For the first time ever they can afford the things they could only dream about as a kid and just go a bit crazy. Heck I remember my first big pay check of my life beyond just making minimum wage at a college job and I went out and bought a new bike and a new tv. Then all of a sudden all that new money that should have gone to all my new expenses with being an adult was gone. Thankfully learned from that pretty quickly and am in a great financial situation now but it took me a few years to learn and for these players not all of them have a few years to figure it out.

Same here...my 1st career job...25 y/o, and a manager's position...I got my 1st bonus check...$6500 after taxes...I did put half in savings, but spent the other half on some nice hifi equipment...clearly a "want", not a need....good you have done well...I'm resigned that I'm never going to recoup the real estate and 401k losses from the crash, but I'm doing fine...the difference between us and the players...our incomes and expenses are spread over 25-30 yrs....the avg NFL player...it's condensed to 3 or 4 yrs.

If you make it a second contract, imo you should never need money.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Or if you want a bigger place/house then rent with some other rookies. You could get a very nice place if you pool your money together. Heck we were looking at this incredible home in AZ a while back that just blew us away with something like 8 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, pool in the backyard, beautiful on the interior and it was $4000 a month. Find 3 guys to rent with you and that is dirt cheap for a rookie contract for most of them.

The best way I have heard of a rookie handling his situation is figuring out how much he was going to make over the next 2 years and then dividing that by 20 and that being how much he had to live on for the year. It came out to something like living on $50,000 a year if he wanted his money to last for the next 20 years. So he and his wife were living in a small apartment, driving a pretty cheap car, and really didn't spend lavishly. He then said that if his career went longer than 2-years they would adjust some but still figured they could live comfortably on $50,000 a year and could lots figured out in that 20 years to live beyond that.

In bold...there you go...that's the train of thought these guys need to have, but they're either not getting that info, or not grasping it until it's too late.

 

[cdumler7]

Same here...my 1st career job...25 y/o, and a manager's position...I got my 1st bonus check...$6500 after taxes...I did put half in savings, but spent the other half on some nice hifi equipment...clearly a "want", not a need....good you have done well...I'm resigned that I'm never going to recoup the real estate and 401k losses from the crash, but I'm doing fine...the difference between us and the players...our incomes and expenses are spread over 25-30 yrs....the avg NFL player...it's condensed to 3 or 4 yrs.

If you make it a second contract, imo you should never need money.

It is true. I've mostly done well because I married somebody who has done really well with her money and is one of those highly motivated people who wants to advance to the top of her field. She has done really well with that to the point now they are asking her to teach others on her down time. So I get the joy of riding her coattails a bit.

I also think with these players part of the problem is they have convinced themselves they are going to get that 2nd contract. All of their life they have been the best of the best and to tell them that unless they are the elite of the NFL they are going to struggle to get that big 2nd contract just doesn't quite sink in.

I would also add that the veterans don't help the situation. They take advantage of the young guys by making them pay for extravagant meals or pay for all the drinks when they go out and they don't drink cheaply. So these players have quite a bit against them with family and friends asking for money, vets taking their money, bad financial advisers being recommended, no financial education growing up, and so much more.