Is Russel Wilson an ELITE QB?

[Uhsplit]

Switch the teams they played for and it would read

Romo since 2012: 26-6
Wilson since 2012: 8-24

Why would you just pull your skirt up and show your ignorance?

 

[Itsmytime]

honestly don't know why you are trying to compare wins.
wins is by a team.

Are you saying if Wilson played on the cowboys & Wilson plays the exact same as he has for the hawks but the defense blows the games & now Wilson doesn't have as many wins, & has zero playoff wins & sure as hell would have never gotten to the superbowl.

Even though he is the same guy, are you saying now he isn't as good of a QB because his wins are less & now you wouldn't be able to compare playoff records & no superbowl to hang a hat on?

Is he still just as good in your mind being & playing the exact same way or is he now lesser of a QB? (because of the team he is on?)

Didn't mean to say that Romo is bad, because well he isn't. Just trying to make a point that he took a comment out of context.

 

[WizardHawk]

honestly the question was is he elite?

For some reason if a non hawks fan says he isn't elite we are all haters & bashing Wilson.
It is possible to be a good Qb & not be considered elite.

Just because a Qb has good seasons doesn't mean he is elite & if it does, then a ton of QBs are elite & now elite isn't special anymore, in which case means they aren't elite.

&
for all the hawk fans with luck envy. I don't think Luck is elite either. ( & this isn't bashing luck or Wilson)

No, this thread is about Prisco's article and he didn't classify him as elite. He said he MAY be ready to go to the 'next level' based on this preseason and I said as much a few posts back. It's Prisco doing what they do at CBS: Putting up fluff when there isn't real stories to cover. It's as if they know boards are going to blow up arguing whatever crap story they post and that's what they live for.

Once again we have a slew of Cowboys fans jumping on yet another thread about Wilson trying desperately to knock him down a peg while building up Romo. Sorry that Romo plays on a shit team and Wilson has great pieces around him, but it's not relevant in any way to whatever you want to make this topic about. You have all been asked in various prior threads to find examples of where Wilson caused a loss and no one ever comes up with one. Shall we come up with a few for Romo since you all want to keep bringing it back to him for some reason? It's just not that hard to find those highlights.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

No, this thread is about Prisco's article and he didn't classify him as elite. He said he MAY be ready to go to the 'next level' based on this preseason and I said as much a few posts back. It's Prisco doing what they do at CBS: Putting up fluff when there isn't real stories to cover. It's as if they know boards are going to blow up arguing whatever crap story they post and that's what they live for.

Once again we have a slew of Cowboys fans jumping on yet another thread about Wilson trying desperately to knock him down a peg while building up Romo. Sorry that Romo plays on a shit team and Wilson has great pieces around him, but it's not relevant in any way to whatever you want to make this topic about. You have all been asked in various prior threads to find examples of where Wilson caused a loss and no one ever comes up with one. Shall we come up with a few for Romo since you all want to keep bringing it back to him for some reason? It's just not that hard to find those highlights.

this is exactly what I am talking about.
Saying he isn't elite is trying to knock him down a peg?
Already said he was a good QB, but if we don't say he is elite we are trying to knock him down a peg?
BTW I don't think Romo is elite either.

 

[flyerhawk]

Let me start off by saying Russell Wilson isn't elite. Not yet at least. Neither is Andrew Luck or Nick Foles or anyone not named Brees, Brady, Manning, or Rodgers. Maybe that will change at the end of this season but who knows?

Having said that, there is some seriously misinformed about the Seahawks and how they play.

Pete Carroll is a firm believer in playing physical football and playing smart football. And he wants the other team to pay for every yard they gain or fight against.

What he doesn't want is to have his defense constantly out on the field getting worn down as the year progresses. They try and slow down games, not speed them up. As such, the Seahawks are never going to be a gaudy offensive team stats wise as far as yards go. They rarely go for it on 4th and short situations unless there is a clear need to do it. They prefer to punt it and pin the other team and improve field position attritionally.

Given the fact that Russell Wilson has never lost a game by more than 7 points in his two years, tells you that their philosophy is working.

To point to the fact that Wilson has relatively few 300 yard games is ignoring the entire approach the Seahawks take. Their offense is about efficiency. So when someone says that the Seahawks offense is essentially the same in 2012 as it was 2011 they ignoring some obvious issues with using aggregate values. Football outsiders had the Seahawks offense rated as the #24 offense in 2011. In 2012 it was #4.

Russell Wilson isn't elite yet but the notion that he is just a care taker and that anyone could do what he has done is downright silly.

 

[bigdaddytorr]

Let me start off by saying Russell Wilson isn't elite. Not yet at least. Neither is Andrew Luck or Nick Foles or anyone not named Brees, Brady, Manning, or Rodgers. Maybe that will change at the end of this season but who knows?

Having said that, there is some seriously misinformed about the Seahawks and how they play.

Pete Carroll is a firm believer in playing physical football and playing smart football. And he wants the other team to pay for every yard they gain or fight against.

What he doesn't want is to have his defense constantly out on the field getting worn down as the year progresses. They try and slow down games, not speed them up. As such, the Seahawks are never going to be a gaudy offensive team stats wise as far as yards go. They rarely go for it on 4th and short situations unless there is a clear need to do it. They prefer to punt it and pin the other team and improve field position attritionally.

Given the fact that Russell Wilson has never lost a game by more than 7 points in his two years, tells you that their philosophy is working.

To point to the fact that Wilson has relatively few 300 yard games is ignoring the entire approach the Seahawks take. Their offense is about efficiency. So when someone says that the Seahawks offense is essentially the same in 2012 as it was 2011 they ignoring some obvious issues with using aggregate values. Football outsiders had the Seahawks offense rated as the #24 offense in 2011. In 2012 it was #4.

Russell Wilson isn't elite yet but the notion that he is just a care taker and that anyone could do what he has done is downright silly.

That's exactly my point he has so few 300 pass games because of the system... the system is great defense and run the ball. Wilson doesn't put the team on his back and therefore isn't elite in my opinion. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[WizardHawk]

this is exactly what I am talking about.
Saying he isn't elite is trying to knock him down a peg?
Already said he was a good QB, but if we don't say he is elite we are trying to knock him down a peg?
BTW I don't think Romo is elite either.

You aren't the only cowboy fan in this thread, nor the only one that has responded so many times to this topic in its various forms.

But if it's your belief the topic is supposed to be how elite he is (as opposed to what the article referenced in the OP is about) then saying he isn't elite would indeed be knocking him down on that topic no?

And as I've said, I really don't care what anyone else thinks. Of course I have bias and what I really care about is winning, not what ranking other fans put their QB or any other player in. If they keep winning you can all call him a game manager, average QB carried by a system and/or defense, or anything you like.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

You aren't the only cowboy fan in this thread, nor the only one that has responded so many times to this topic in its various forms.

But if it's your belief the topic is supposed to be how elite he is (as opposed to what the article referenced in the OP is about) then saying he isn't elite would indeed be knocking him down on that topic no?

And as I've said, I really don't care what anyone else thinks. Of course I have bias and what I really care about is winning, not what ranking other fans put their QB or any other player in. If they keep winning you can all call him a game manager, average QB carried by a system and/or defense, or anything you like.

well I give him much more credit than that. he is just not elite.

honestly after the top 4, you can mix match who is ranked higher & have valid arguments from 5th on down to 15th.

So I don't go as gung ho about him as you guys do, but I also don't consider him a Trent Dilfer type. His play has impressed me. So I don't call him a game manager. To me he is one of those 7 to 10 QBs that are all clumped together.

 

[DunceKaep]

That's exactly my point he has so few 300 pass games because of the system... the system is great defense and run the ball. Wilson doesn't put the team on his back and therefore isn't elite in my opinion. Nothing more nothing less.

He has so few 300 yard games because in a tight 4th quarter game trailing by 3 he doesn't panic and throw an int or fumble while scrambling. Now I've seen plenty of others do exactly that. Then being down 10, lead the offense down the field against the prevent defense and pad another 60-80 yards onto their passing total AND still lose the game. But BRAVO. your QB passed for 350-400 yards because your QB couldn't finish a drive.

RW wins.

 

[bigdaddytorr]

He has so few 300 yard games because in a tight 4th quarter game trailing by 3 he doesn't panic and throw an int or fumble while scrambling. Now I've seen plenty of others do exactly that. Then being down 10, lead the offense down the field against the prevent defense and pad another 60-80 yards onto their passing total AND still lose the game. But BRAVO. your QB passed for 350-400 yards because your QB couldn't finish a drive.

RW wins.

You lack logic, completely misinterpreted my point, and are a delusional homer.


He doesn't throw for 300 yards because he doesn't turnover the ball? I don't speak stupid... do you want to try that again?

 

[DunceKaep]

The system huh. RW not throwing a Romo like interception is because RW can finish a drive.
Romo has a system. He just panics and makes stupid decisions.
RW has a system and RW makes great decisions. The system doesn't stop RW from making poor decisions.

 

[bigdaddytorr]

The system huh. RW not throwing a Romo like interception is because RW can finish a drive.
Romo has a system. He just panics and makes stupid decisions.
RW has a system and RW makes great decisions. The system doesn't stop RW from making poor decisions.

Romo had 535 pass attempts and 10 ints.
Wilson had 407 pass attempts and 9 ints.

Romo is more efficient, lol. Now regroup, try not to make an ass out of yourself again, and say something with some merit.

 

[DunceKaep]

Hey. I'm sorry your QB makes poor decisions and fumbles the ball.
I feel bad your Romo cant win games more consistently.

Romo chokes. I know it. The NFL fans know it. And you know it and it makes you sad.
I get it and I sort of feel bad but not really.

 

[jakedog56]

In their last 2 years the Seahawks have finished 26th and 27th in pass offense. Yes, their offense has improved and RW is a very good QB and leader however, he's not elite. The offense has improved because their defense has improved. I wonder how many extra possessions they got in the last 2 years vs 2011. It's about opportunities and the unit as a whole. Their passing game is not even average at this point. It bottom 6-7 in the league, look it up it's fact.

Only fools use passing yardage as a quality indicator. Completion percentage, yards per attempt, and TD to INT ratio are the best stats for analysis.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's exactly my point he has so few 300 pass games because of the system... the system is great defense and run the ball. Wilson doesn't put the team on his back and therefore isn't elite in my opinion. Nothing more nothing less.

I think you missed my point.

Wilson's first 300 yard game was against the Falcons in his rookie season. The defense player poorly and the Seahawks were down by 20 points. Wilson aired it out for 350+ yards and 3 TDs and put the Seahawks in the lead only for the defense to squander it. He threw for 300+ because he had to. Last season he threw for 300+ yards twice. Once against the Panthers when they completely shut down the run and once against the Saints because they were selling out the run and daring him to throw.

Now look at the Jaguars game. He only threw it for 200 yards. Yet he threw 4 TDs and the score was 31-0 at the half and he was out of the game by the 4th quarter. Same with the Giants game. Out by the 4th quarter. There are some QBs that would demand to stay in and continue to put points on the board. Let's also remember that Wilson has 8 late game go ahead drives in his first two seasons. And unlike Luck's theatrics they are almost never because he put them in a position where he had to perform heroics.

As I said, he isn't elite because he hasn't been around long enough to be considered elite. But if he winds up putting up 30 TDs with 3500 yards with single digit picks again this year, it will probably be time to put him into the conversation especially if it is coupled with another Super Bowl victory.

 

[Bunkamania]

I consider Wilson a good QB but not yet elite. I only consider one QB elite and that's Manning. My reason is that no matter where you put him he makes others excel. He makes OL play better, TE play better, can make ordinary WR into #1's and even turns out a great running game.

Rodgers, Brady and Brees are all great but, in my opionion, I still see Manning as the one and only true eliete.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think the term "elite" when it applies to QBs in the NFL largely depends on the OFC...i.e. putting up big passing stats and winning games as a result. I don't see it being any more that that.

Not EVERY NFL team asks their QB to throw it 40 times a game so saying that RW is not an elite QB is NOT a downgrade imo at all.

He does an excellent job within the scheme SEA runs...If he wins another 2 rings playing the same way SEA plays right now, I think they (powers that be) will have to redefine what the term "elite" means.

 

[WizardHawk]

There is always some amount of trolling/taunting/arguing/debating on this site and everyone knows I've added my fair share, but please try to keep it to the ideas and not the posters.

This isn't ESPiN, cBS, or the other out of control sites. Knock off the name calling and belittling.

 

[MKHawk]

No, he's not a Tier 1 QB right now.

But his efficiency stats are terrific and he could very well get there.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Peyton's first two seasons = 8009 total yards (rush and pass) and 54 TDs. (rush and pass)
Brady's first two seasons = 6760 total yards (rush and pass) and 47 TDs (rush and pass)
Wilson's first two seasons = 7503 total yards (rush and pass) and 57 TDs (rush and pass)

Please tell me how Wilson doesn't compare with the two consensus picks for most elite QBs playing right now at the same point in their careers.[/QUOTE]


Please dont insult Brady and Wilson, Manning had like 27 int his first year and a 3-13 season


Wilson had over a 50 qbr rating vs the other QB in SB plus 0 t/o to 3. Made 3rd down darts and smart plays, anybody calling him a game manager should have their NFL card taken away. Now when Ben won his first SB at a .27 QB rating team carries him, when you have a 127 rating not so much