Incognito will never play for Miami again

[TobyTyler]

I don't get your reasoning. They play different positions on the SAME side of the ball. How would one kill another in that scenario simply based on practice, man?

Making Martin work hard and repeat everything he does numerous times until he gets it right in an attempt to get him in better shape or "kill" him. You never went to hell week when you played football in high school?

 

[TobyTyler]

Cameron Wake is TOTALLY supporting Incognito, and preseason newcomer Garrard must know Incognito's personality really well, right? Not like Incognito had a bad experience with a Super Bowl winning coach or anything.

Wake seems like a stand up guy. I was impressed by his interview.

 

[TobyTyler]

Incognito obviously went overboard with a player they all knew was maybe overly sensitive for whatever reason (they knew enough that Martin was different to call him big weirdo after all). To me why continue to pick on a guy where it was probably pretty obvious he couldn't handle it? It's like tearing the wings off flies, if it was truly "all in fun", he should have been picking on a guy that could take it -- but he didn't because Incognito is sadistic. Why anyone would stand up for him and blame someone with some obvious issues is beyond me, if Incognito was so tough he should have texted those messages and bullied someone who would have stood up to him. The fact that he didn't tells me all I need to know about him.

Perhaps that was Incognito's ill conceived way of trying to get Martin to stand up to him? To make him a tougher, better player?

 

[yossarian]

Perhaps that was Incognito's ill conceived way of trying to get Martin to stand up to him? To make him a tougher, better player?

Usually that type of stuff has some elements of encouragement as well, like come on, fight back! This was just relentless attacks.

 

[Breaker99]

Anyone who actually thinks Incognito literally meant he was going to kill Martin is either an idiot or just trying to blow the situation up (reporters). It was pretty clear from the context when Martin was saying he'd been training for 10 weeks that Incognito was not impressed and meant he would "kill" him on the field.

I would love to hear your translation for when he said....


"Half ****er piece of shit".....
Translation... Good friend with beautiful golden sugar skin.

"I am going to [expletive] in your [expletive] mouth"....
Translation, I am making a nice warm beverage for you, my good friend and team mate.

" [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face (laughter). [Expletive] you, you’re still a rookie. I’ll kill you.”......

Translation...... can't wait to give your mom a big hug. And spend some quality time with you.





Whether he really intended to kill him or not, he threatens violence and threatens the guys family and makes continually aggressive racial epithets. He deserves no benefit of the doubt. This isn't typical rookie hazing, anyone suggesting that is being an ass. And acting like the reporters are responsible for blowing this story out of context.... That is dumb. Incognito is the only responsible person here.

 

[TobyTyler]

I would love to hear your translation for when he said....


"Half ****er piece of shit".....
Translation... Good friend with beautiful golden sugar skin.

"I am going to [expletive] in your [expletive] mouth"....
Translation, I am making a nice warm beverage for you, my good friend and team mate.

" [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face (laughter). [Expletive] you, you’re still a rookie. I’ll kill you.”......

Translation...... can't wait to give your mom a big hug. And spend some quality time with you.




Whether he really intended to kill him or not, he threatens violence and threatens the guys family and makes continually aggressive racial epithets. He deserves no benefit of the doubt. This isn't typical rookie hazing, anyone suggesting that is being an ass.

The smiling photos of them partying together down in the French Quarter and on the team plane would seem to indicate that Martin was not too worried about it. Sounds like an excuse for something else in my book. I agree with all the players; Martin is a puss.

 

[TobyTyler]

Usually that type of stuff has some elements of encouragement as well, like come on, fight back! This was just relentless attacks.

But we don't know that there wasn't some of that. The press would never report that because that would ruin their story. We only saw what Martin and his representatives wanted us to see.

 

[Kinzu]

I have a tough time with this issue. The players don't seem to think anything was wrong, and it's starting to appear as if Martin never even tried to stop it (espn.com)

At some point Martin needs to take some responsibility and stand up for himself as a man. That doesn't mean he needs to go face to face with Icognito and start a fight, but he does need to own the situation and let it be known he won't continue to take the abuse. If that doesn't work their is a reason coaches and GM's exist. I guess maybe he feels going that route would have alienated him from the locker room even more, but he had ways to stop the harassment. The absolute worst thing you can do when being bullied is let it show how much it effects you. You're no fun to bully if you don't react to it in a way that lets them feel dominate.

This doesn't change the fact that Icognito bullied Martin though. He took it to far and should have known better. Martin though needed to be more mature and stand up for himself. There comes a point in your life where you have to realize you're all you've got, and that no one else has to take responsibility for you. I'm sure had he made it known across the locker room and within the organization he was through being the target of this harassment certain leaders would have stepped forward and ended it.

 

[Breaker99]

The smiling photos of them partying together down in the French Quarter and on the team plane would seem to indicate that Martin was not too worried about it. Sounds like an excuse for something else in my book. I agree with all the players; Martin is a puss.

So a photo taken before he threatened his mother is all you need to see?

Sounds to me like being a fool comes easier to you than pretending to be a niner fan.

 

[Breaker99]

But we don't know that there wasn't some of that. The press would never report that because that would ruin their story. We only saw what Martin and his representatives wanted us to see.

Wait till the story breaks that Dan Rather broke into incognitos house and held a gun to his head making him say those awful things to Martin and threaten his mother just to create a story.... Shit will hit the fan...

 

[Breaker99]

I have a tough time with this issue. The players don't seem to think anything was wrong, and it's starting to appear as if Martin never even tried to stop it (espn.com)

At some point Martin needs to take some responsibility and stand up for himself as a man. That doesn't mean he needs to go face to face with Icognito and start a fight, but he does need to own the situation and let it be known he won't continue to take the abuse. If that doesn't work their is a reason coaches and GM's exist. I guess maybe he feels going that route would have alienated him from the locker room even more, but he had ways to stop the harassment. The absolute worst thing you can do when being bullied is let it show how much it effects you. You're no fun to bully if you don't react to it in a way that lets them feel dominate.

This doesn't change the fact that Icognito bullied Martin though. He took it to far and should have known better. Martin though needed to be more mature and stand up for himself. There comes a point in your life where you have to realize you're all you've got, and that no one else has to take responsibility for you. I'm sure had he made it known across the locker room and within the organization he was through being the target of this harassment certain leaders would have stepped forward and ended it.

So your argument is that it's the person being bullied fault for making them self fun to be bullied? Did he make it fun to threaten to slap his mother?

Pretty bazaar logic to defend a guy with a long history of being a douche.

 

[NinerSickness]

Anyone who actually thinks Incognito literally meant he was going to kill Martin is either an idiot or just trying to blow the situation up (reporters). It was pretty clear from the context when Martin was saying he'd been training for 10 weeks that Incognito was not impressed and meant he would "kill" him on the field.

It doesn't matter if he meant it or not. If someone says, "I'll kill you" in a threatening way he needs to go to jail.

 

[TobyTyler]

It doesn't matter if he meant it or not. If someone says, "I'll kill you" in a threatening way he needs to go to jail.

We disagree.

 

[NinerSickness]

We disagree.

So if you're a prosecuting attorney how do you prove beyond a reasonable doubt whether someone meant a death threat or not? That's got to be one of the most dubious legal positions I can imagine. The "I didn't mean it" defense would be as lame as the "temporary insanity" defense. In fact, I think a DA can prosecute whether a guy means it or not (and he or she should).

 

[TobyTyler]

So if you're a prosecuting attorney how do you prove beyond a reasonable doubt whether someone meant a death threat or not? That's got to be one of the most dubious legal positions I can imagine. The "I didn't mean it" defense would be as lame as the "temporary insanity" defense. In fact, I think a DA can prosecute whether a guy means it or not (and he or she should).

Your parents never said about you in a moment of anger "ooh I could just strangle that kid" or you never said anything remotely like this about your own kids? Did you mean it? Did your parents mean it? Should you or your parents be in jail?

 

[Kinzu]

So your argument is that it's the person being bullied fault for making them self fun to be bullied? Did he make it fun to threaten to slap his mother?

Pretty bazaar logic to defend a guy with a long history of being a douche.

I'm not defending him. I stated he was wrong for what he was doing, but at some point Martin needed to take responsibility for the situation he was in and do something to change it instead of continuing to allow it to happen. It's not the Dolphins fault this was continuing to happen to him if he failed to do anything about it.

If you allow yourself to be bullied you will continue to be bullied is all I'm saying. A bully will always target someone they feel is weak. You either have to stand up to it or have thick enough skin to not allow it to effect you. It appears as if Martin did neither which is why he kept getting harassed.

Icognito should have know better and deserves the suspension from the team, but I think the players are right to think Martin is a bit of a wuss for not standing up for himself and continuing to allow the behavior of his teammates. Martin is not a child who should need another adult to stand up for him.

 

[yossarian]

Help.

 

[HighTopFade]

Real shitty situation for both Martin and Incognito. One is a wuss, the other appears to be a racist bully. Neither will get jobs in the NFL. Looking at the bright side of things, the league can learn from this and prevent it from happening again.

 

[NinerSickness]

Your parents never said about you in a moment of anger "ooh I could just strangle that kid" or you never said anything remotely like this about your own kids? Did you mean it? Did your parents mean it? Should you or your parents be in jail?

Well the attorney has to look at whether there's a realistic (realistic does not = likely) chance of the person killing someone. If a parent says, "I could strangle him," I don't think there's a realistic chance of that happening. If a grown man says to another grown man at work, "I'm going to kill you" he needs to go to jail.

 

[TobyTyler]

Well the attorney has to look at whether there's a realistic (realistic does not = likely) chance of the person killing someone. If a parent says, "I could strangle him," I don't think there's a realistic chance of that happening. If a grown man says to another grown man at work, "I'm going to kill you" he needs to go to jail.

Do you really think Richie Incognito was going to kill Jonathan Martin? Really? Isn't it much more likely trash talk and machismo?