Im sorry Mussina isnt deserving of HOF.

[Used 2 B Hu]

Which he would have gotten if Mariano doesn't throw a double play ball into center field in game 7 2001.

Oh, INNNNN-ter-esting...guess who just became the first unanimous HOF pick???

Coincidence?!?!

 

[Cyder]

I thought it was all A-Rod's fault?

A Rod;s 1 RBI in the 13 or 14 playoff games with the Yanks prior to 2009 didn't help 2005-2007 in the playoffs

 

[StanMarsh51]

.


Actually a terrific book. Feinstein can write the hell out of just about any sport.

I'll need to check it out...his book on life in the minor leagues was excellent.

 

[Cyder]

Oh, INNNNN-ter-esting...guess who just became the first unanimous HOF pick???

Coincidence?!?!

The irony did not escape me.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

I'll need to check it out...his book on life in the minor leagues was excellent.

Oh yeah, I was gonna rent this up from the Liberry a while back. Musta got distracted

 

[Cyder]

As far as Mussina, I was on the fence with him. Glad he made it but it wouldn't have bothered me if he didn't. 270 wins in the 5 man rotation era is pretty good. He pitched over 60% of his games in Yankee Stadium, Camden yards or Fenway which doesn't help ones era. The Hall has been watered down for some time so this isn't a big deal.

 

[Ojb81]

Oh yeah, I was gonna rent this up from the Liberry a while back. Musta got distracted

'SCUUUUSE ME! BUT YOU DON'T "RENT" BOOKS FROM DA LIIIIBERRY! YOU "CHECK THEM OUT"!!!

 

[Montalban]

He's basically the same pitcher that Frank Viola was. Solid but not HoF-worthy

 

[Montalban]

As far as Mussina, I was on the fence with him. Glad he made it but it wouldn't have bothered me if he didn't. 270 wins in the 5 man rotation era is pretty good. He pitched over 60% of his games in Yankee Stadium, Camden yards or Fenway which doesn't help ones era. The Hall has been watered down for some time so this isn't a big deal.

Thee it is.

 

[StanMarsh51]

He's basically the same pitcher that Frank Viola was. Solid but not HoF-worthy

Except Viola had 6 seasons that were good or better, wheras Mussina had a dozen. They did have similar peaks, but Mussina had a much longer prime.

 

[Indrid Cold]

I'll need to check it out...his book on life in the minor leagues was excellent.

I will keep an eye out for that....A False Spring is also an excellent book about being in the minors, the author was a fireballler who never got close to sniffing the bigs. Can't remember the name, but that was a very well written book.

 

[Montalban]

Except Viola had 6 seasons that were good or better, wheras Mussina had a dozen. They did have similar peaks, but Mussina had a much longer prime.

That's why I said Mussina's record is pretty much based on longevity and not dominance. Consequently I don't think he should have got in.

 

[navamind]

He also thinks Chipper wasn't HOF caliber. Lol

 

[StanMarsh51]

That's why I said Mussina's record is pretty much based on longevity and not dominance. Consequently I don't think he should have got in.

But it's not as if Mussina was just ok/solid for that extra longevity. He was quite good in all those extra innings.

Viola's hurt in the same way that a guy like Johan Santana is hurt...outside of their peak years, there's not much else. Outside of Mussina's peak years, he had a very good body of work.

Think of it this way - if two guys each have 6 great years that are comparable, and one of the guys has an extra 6 good/very good seasons on top of that while the other guy doesn't have much else, are they really similar?

 

[Montalban]

But it's not as if Mussina was just ok/solid for that extra longevity. He was quite good in all those extra innings.

Viola's hurt in the same way that a guy like Johan Santana is hurt...outside of their peak years, there's not much else. Outside of Mussina's peak years, he had a very good body of work.

Think of it this way - if two guys each have 6 great years that are comparable, and one of the guys has an extra 6 good/very good seasons on top of that while the other guy doesn't have much else, are they really similar?

There it is right there; "quite good" is not HoF material. Superb performance, head and shoulders above your peers, is what it should take to be in the HoF. I think the problem is that for some reason they've decided that someone must get in every year and that is why the HoF has become watered down. Maybe 4 or 5 players in a generation should get in. Thoughts?

 

[StanMarsh51]

There it is right there; "quite good" is not HoF material. Superb performance, head and shoulders above your peers, is what it should take to be in the HoF. I think the problem is that for some reason they've decided that someone must get in every year and that is why the HoF has become watered down. Maybe 4 or 5 players in a generation should get in. Thoughts?

I'm saying he was quite good outside of his best years. Mussina's best years ('92, '94, '95, '00, '01, '03) were considered great.

So he had about half a dozen great years, and an additional half a dozen years that were quite good.

 

[PolarVortex]

Mussina won 15 or games in 11 different seasons. Given the current trend in MLB, Moose, Randy Johnson and Justin Verlander may be the last three pitchers to ever accomplish this feat.

The closest active pitchers who have a shot (age in upcoming season and number of years with 15+ wins in parenthesis)

Decent chance:
Justin Verlander (35 - 10)
Jon Lester (35 - 8)
Zack Greinke (35 - 8)
Scherzer (34 -7)

Long shots:
David Price (33 - 6)
Clayton Kershaw (31 -5)
Madbum (29 - 4)

No shot:
Everyone else with four or more years in the league.

 

[Montalban]

I'm saying he was quite good outside of his best years. Mussina's best years ('92, '94, '95, '00, '01, '03) were considered great.

So he had about half a dozen great years, and an additional half a dozen years that were quite good.

OK. It seems to me that guys in the HoF should be guys whose play transcended the game. Willie Mays, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Sandy Koufax, Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron.......Not Mike Mussina, but good for him for getting in

 

[StanMarsh51]

OK. It seems to me that guys in the HoF should be guys whose play transcended the game. Willie Mays, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Sandy Koufax, Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron.......Not Mike Mussina, but good for him for getting in

Don't you think Jeff Kent is a hall of famer? Are you putting Kent in the same class as Ruth, Aaron, Clemens, when Kent might not even be one of the top 5 second baseman in the past 30ish years.

 

[Montalban]

Don't you think Jeff Kent is a hall of famer? Are you putting Kent in the same class as Ruth, Aaron, Clemens, when Kent might not even be one of the top 5 second baseman in the past 30ish years.

For second basemen, yes. I'd put him up there with Sandberg but both would be about as low as I would consider. For instance, Bigio would not get in, perhaps Alomar would. The one problem with my theory is it does not account for position played, only a dominant performer.