Im sorry Mussina isnt deserving of HOF.

[carson]

Stupid take. The only thing Mussina is missing in his career is a World Series ring.

 

[navamind]

Stupid take. The only thing Mussina is missing in his career is a World Series ring.

And it's not like Mussina shit the bed in the postseason either. A 3.42 postseason ERA over 139.2 innings is pretty great if you ask me. He had a rough game 1 against Arizona in 2001 (3 IP, 5 R), but he bounced back in game 5 (8 IP, 2 R, 10 K's) and had a great Game 3 in 2003 (7 IP, 1 R, 9 K's).

 

[navamind]

yes, i would have... you might not be a milestones guy... But you have to admit there is a difference in celebration to your 49th birthday and your 50th birthday... to think milestones are not a game changer is naive...

So you would have rather him potentially hurt his team just to chase a milestone?

Glavine had a 4.71 ERA in his final 47 MLB starts.

I remember Tim Wakefield's chase for 200 wins. He was a pretty lousy pitcher in his final 2 seasons in Boston (5.22 ERA, 83 ERA+). He got his 199th career win on July 24 against the Mariners (despite giving up 7 runs in 6 IP). He wouldn't get his 200th win until September 13 when he gave up 5 runs in 6 IP (the Sox won 18-6). Wakefield gave up 33 runs in 43 innings in 7 starts over that span. I don't think it would be unfair to say his awful performances potentially cost the Red Sox a Wild Card berth in 2011.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

His "mere" 270 wins are tied for 33rd all-time. that's pretty impressive, especially considering he pitched in an era where pitchers were going fewer innings and receiving fewer wins/losses.

so why is tommy John and tony Mullane not in the HOF??

and will Jaime Moyer make it??

 

[MilkSpiller22]

yes, i would have... you might not be a milestones guy... But you have to admit there is a difference in celebration to your 49th birthday and your 50th birthday... to think milestones are not a game changer is naive...

So you would have rather him potentially hurt his team just to chase a milestone?

Glavine had a 4.71 ERA in his final 47 MLB starts.

I remember Tim Wakefield's chase for 200 wins. He was a pretty lousy pitcher in his final 2 seasons in Boston (5.22 ERA, 83 ERA+). He got his 199th career win on July 24 against the Mariners (despite giving up 7 runs in 6 IP). He wouldn't get his 200th win until September 13 when he gave up 5 runs in 6 IP (the Sox won 18-6). Wakefield gave up 33 runs in 43 innings in 7 starts over that span. I don't think it would be unfair to say his awful performances potentially cost the Red Sox a Wild Card berth in 2011.[/QUOTE]


i mean, he aint gonna hurt his team if he is gonna get 30 more wins in 3 years...

 

[navamind]

so why is tommy John and tony Mullane not in the HOF??

and will Jaime Moyer make it??

Because John pitched a much longer career and only won 18 more games despite making 164 more career starts? Mussina Mussina had a .638 win percentage to John's .555.

 

[Pure Steel]

Glavine's last 5 years with the Mets were magical......Pushing him over the the 300 win milestone.....

 

[navamind]

So you would have rather him potentially hurt his team just to chase a milestone?

Glavine had a 4.71 ERA in his final 47 MLB starts.

I remember Tim Wakefield's chase for 200 wins. He was a pretty lousy pitcher in his final 2 seasons in Boston (5.22 ERA, 83 ERA+). He got his 199th career win on July 24 against the Mariners (despite giving up 7 runs in 6 IP). He wouldn't get his 200th win until September 13 when he gave up 5 runs in 6 IP (the Sox won 18-6). Wakefield gave up 33 runs in 43 innings in 7 starts over that span. I don't think it would be unfair to say his awful performances potentially cost the Red Sox a Wild Card berth in 2011.

i mean, he aint gonna hurt his team if he is gonna get 30 more wins in 3 years...[/QUOTE]

Mussina had turned 40 after the 2008 season and it's not uncommon for pitchers to drop off at that age, if not earlier.

Seems like a pretty selfish thing to hang on to try to achieve personal milestones, no?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

i mean, he aint gonna hurt his team if he is gonna get 30 more wins in 3 years...

Mussina had turned 40 after the 2008 season and it's not uncommon for pitchers to drop off at that age, if not earlier.

Seems like a pretty selfish thing to hang on to try to achieve personal milestones, no?[/QUOTE]


sure, if he cant hack it... but you are not going to reach those milestones anyway if you cant hack it anymore... so for this argument you have to assume he would hit at least one milestone if he continued playing...

but just because you suck at the end of your career that shouldn't hurt your chances to make the HOF, if you deserved it from your early on career...

but if you are making it entirely because of longevity, then your longevity needs to mean something... his doesn't...

 

[navamind]

Glavine's last 5 years with the Mets were magical......Pushing him over the the 300 win milestone.....

No way he's a HOFer with only 290 wins!

 

[wazzu31]

No way he's a HOFer with only 290 wins!

But can’t that argument be made then for Fred McGriff. What was he 7 HR’s or whatever away from the magical 500 HR’s?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Average at best IMO.

Your opinion is stupid.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

His "mere" 270 wins are tied for 33rd all-time. that's pretty impressive, especially considering he pitched in an era where pitchers were going fewer innings and receiving fewer wins/losses.

...also when considering that more than half his career was spent with the shit bag Orioles.

 

[flyerhawk]

Stupid take. The only thing Mussina is missing in his career is a World Series ring.

He is one of 3 pitchers in the last 40 years to be a inducted as a starting pitcher without 300 wins or a Cy Young award.

The other 2 to achieve this dubious honor are Burt Blyleven and Jack Morris who were BOTH highly controversial.

Basically he's a new Bert Blyleven.

FTR, I actually like Mussina. He's a first ballot Hall of Very Good for me. But I don't see how he's a Hall of Famer.

FTR, I think both Martinez and Smith were questionable at best as well.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

He is one of 3 pitchers in the last 40 years to be a inducted as a starting pitcher without 300 wins or a Cy Young award.

The other 2 to achieve this dubious honor are Burt Blyleven and Jack Morris who were BOTH highly controversial.

Basically he's a new Bert Blyleven.

FTR, I actually like Mussina. He's a first ballot Hall of Very Good for me. But I don't see how he's a Hall of Famer.

FTR, I think both Martinez and Smith were questionable at best as well.

I don't mind smith making it... I didn't think Martinez nor Mussina deserved it...

I will say though, neither are terrible picks... MUCH better than Baines and Morris...

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't mind smith making it... I didn't think Martinez nor Mussina deserved it...

I will say though, neither are terrible picks... MUCH better than Baines and Morris...

Agreed that Baines and Morris were far worse.

 

[nynasty]

And it's not like Mussina shit the bed in the postseason either. A 3.42 postseason ERA over 139.2 innings is pretty great if you ask me. He had a rough game 1 against Arizona in 2001 (3 IP, 5 R), but he bounced back in game 5 (8 IP, 2 R, 10 K's) and had a great Game 3 in 2003 (7 IP, 1 R, 9 K's).

2 huge playoff performances when his team's season was on the line

7 shutout innings in a 1-0 Yankee win in the 2001 ALDS with the Yankees down 0-2 in a series they would come back to win.

3 shutout innings in relief in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS (entered with the bases loaded 1 out down 4-0) in a game the Yanks would come back to win.

 

[DrewScott]

Mussina is a No for me. Yes ,he was a very good pitcher for a long career and there's nothing wrong with that. But the word that is missing from his resume is "dominant". Was he ever a dominating pitcher where opposing teams really feared him? I don't think so. And I think dominant needs to be somewhere on a Hall of Famers resume.

 

[StanMarsh51]

you can ask bobby cox i guess...

I'll put it this way:

1. Shane Reynolds in 2003 started 29 games for the Braves and posted a 5.43 ERA and 1.49 WHIP....the difference between an effective Smoltz starting and Reynolds' crap performance imo is worth more than the difference between Smoltz closing and the next person in line to close.

2. The 2004 Braves rotation consisted of Russ Ortiz, Jaret Wright, Paul Byrd, John Thompson, Mike Hampton. Putting Smoltz at his norm in that rotation as opposed to the worst of the above-listed names certainly makes a difference imo.

 

[StanMarsh51]

2 huge playoff performances when his team's season was on the line

7 shutout innings in a 1-0 Yankee win in the 2001 ALDS with the Yankees down 0-2 in a series they would come back to win.

3 shutout innings in relief in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS (entered with the bases loaded 1 out down 4-0) in a game the Yanks would come back to win.

Not to mention, Mussina's 1997 postseason is one of the most dominant postseasons we've seen in recent history:

29 innings, 1.24 ERA, 0.62 WHIP, 12.7 K/9, 5.86 K/BB, .406 OPS against