Im sorry Mussina isnt deserving of HOF.

[MilkSpiller22]

Why would you conclude that Mussina wouldn’t have been as good as Mo as a reliever?

i guess you can't know for sure.. but Mussina's K rates were not elite... that is probably the only stat you can really point at and see...

And we both know, Mo's cut fastball was insane

 

[Yanks23242]

i guess you can't know for sure.. but Mussina's K rates were not elite... that is probably the only stat you can really point at and see...

And we both know, Mo's cut fastball was insane

Seeing how Smoltz had the luxury of pitching to pitchers 2-3 times a game I’d say his K rate was similar to Mussina’s and he enjoyed a dominant run as a closer.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Seeing how Smoltz had the luxury of pitching to pitchers 2-3 times a game I’d say his K rate was similar to Mussina’s and he enjoyed a dominant run as a closer.

not really Smoltz had 7 seasons of being a starter and having a K/9 of over 8 with 2 of those seasons being over 9


Mussina only had 4 seasons of being over 8, and never reached 9...

Not saying strike outs are the only relief pitcher stat.. but it is probably the best indicator to use for this specific argument...

 

[PolarVortex]

I don't have a problem with Mussina getting in. Better brace yourselves for CC getting in too. He's going to have 250+ wins and 3000+ strikeouts. That's within updated qualifications for Hall-worthy. 250 is the new 300.

 

[Yanks23242]

not really Smoltz had 7 seasons of being a starter and having a K/9 of over 8 with 2 of those seasons being over 9


Mussina only had 4 seasons of being over 8, and never reached 9...

Not saying strike outs are the only relief pitcher stat.. but it is probably the best indicator to use for this specific argument...

Take away Smoltz being able to strike out the opposing pitcher and they’re nearly equal.

 

[PolarVortex]

Take away Smoltz being able to strike out the opposing pitcher and they’re nearly equal.

Good point

 

[da55bums]

Those 3, JV, Hamels, MadBum, Felix.


Two great seasons from Greinke. He has longevity on his side, he could do it. But he's a dewsh, that won't help.

Not any dewsh's in the HOF at least Greinke has some drugs to make him less dewishy. (everyone liked Yordano Ventura because of "what could have been", he was a bigger dewish that Greinke, died while being a dewish and would have become worse if he didn't get help soon)

JV and Greinke are pretty damn close, similar to Moose, not the greatest of their generation but close.

Felix is washed up, madbum not doing well - the last two season grienke 32 wins, Madbum and Felix combined 24 wins. MadBum got the SF SP curse of 28 yr olds and didn't get a live rooster to take the hex off of him.

da hidden 4th, Hamel not close

 

[broncosmitty]

Not any dewsh's in the HOF at least Greinke has some drugs to make him less dewishy. (everyone liked Yordano Ventura because of "what could have been", he was a bigger dewish that Greinke, died while being a dewish and would have become worse if he didn't get help soon)

JV and Greinke are pretty damn close, similar to Moose, not the greatest of their generation but close.

Felix is washed up, madbum not doing well - the last two season grienke 32 wins, Madbum and Felix combined 24 wins. MadBum got the SF SP curse of 28 yr olds and didn't get a live rooster to take the hex off of him.

da hidden 4th, Hamel not close

Imagine Verlander, in world, where the pitcher bats...



And we all haven't watched him skeet on his wife's back.

 

[PolarVortex]

Not any dewsh's in the HOF at least Greinke has some drugs to make him less dewishy. (everyone liked Yordano Ventura because of "what could have been", he was a bigger dewish that Greinke, died while being a dewish and would have become worse if he didn't get help soon)

JV and Greinke are pretty damn close, similar to Moose, not the greatest of their generation but close.

Felix is washed up, madbum not doing well - the last two season grienke 32 wins, Madbum and Felix combined 24 wins. MadBum got the SF SP curse of 28 yr olds and didn't get a live rooster to take the hex off of him.

da hidden 4th, Hamel not close

Verlander. 36 years old. 204 wins, 2706 K, 3.39 ERA, 1.16 WHIP. Seems to be a lock for 250 wins, 3000 strikeouts. Those numbers will put him in.
Grienke. 35 years old. 187 wins, 2435 K, 3.39 ERA, 1.17 WHIP. Not in yet but has a chance if he can delay career decline for a couple more years.
Felix. 33 years old. 168 wins, 2467 K, 3.34 ERA, 1.20 WHIP. Unless he finds the same fountain of youth that Verlander found, he has no shot.
Hamels. 35 years old. 156 wins, 2415 K, 3.40 ERA, 1.17 WHIP. Can only make it as a compiler, not a dominator. Would have to pitch into his early 40s to compile enough to be considered.

 

[navamind]

Hamels hasn't really had any dominant seasons (2011 and 2014 were probably his best, though they're his only two seasons in the top 5 in WAR) but he has one of the more durable pitchers of his era (only two seasons where he failed to throw 180 innings, and one was his rookie season) and has consistently been very good if not great (34.6 WAA and 9 seasons with 4+ WAR). I would like to see a few more good years from him, but I don't think he would be an awful selection right now.

 

[da55bums]

Verlander. 36 years old. 204 wins, 2706 K, 3.39 ERA, 1.16 WHIP. Seems to be a lock for 250 wins, 3000 strikeouts. Those numbers will put him in.
Grienke. 35 years old. 187 wins, 2435 K, 3.39 ERA, 1.17 WHIP. Not in yet but has a chance if he can delay career decline for a couple more years.
Felix. 33 years old. 168 wins, 2467 K, 3.34 ERA, 1.20 WHIP. Unless he finds the same fountain of youth that Verlander found, he has no shot.
Hamels. 35 years old. 156 wins, 2415 K, 3.40 ERA, 1.17 WHIP. Can only make it as a compiler, not a dominator. Would have to pitch into his early 40s to compile enough to be considered.

completely agree, if Verlander/Greinke are equal, if they both delay career declines for a couple of more years, they both get in.

 

[Omar 382]

Goddamn, @MilkSpiller22 is one stupid motherfucker.

 

[navamind]

Goddamn, @MilkSpiller22 is one stupid motherfucker.

I wouldn't call him stupid. Stubborn? Sure.

 

[Pure Steel]

I wouldn't call him stupid. Stubborn? Sure.

They called Forrest Gump stupid and look what he accomplished......

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Goddamn, @MilkSpiller22 is one stupid motherfucker.

I definitely am stupid. But would like to know what convinced you??

Was it my dislike of adjusted numbers??
Was it my thinking that mussina is a borderline HOFer at best??

Was it me thinking Mussina would not have been a better reliever than Mo Rivera??