If we don't win the Super Bowl this year, it's going to be long for another shot

[Crimsoncrew]

The money we will be paying our LB core after Aldon's extension is what is going to really hinder us. Our QB #'s will likely be on par with the rest of the elite teams, with elite qb's. The good news is that there should be a pretty significant cap increase after 2015. It will be very tricky to keep all these guys together past next year, but the reality is it can be done. Not saying I hope we follow their model, but Dallas signs people to stupid contracts all the time and just push the money into the future. The cap is very flexible.

Gotta keep having good drafts. Good teams let good players walk. If you can fill those holes with younger players you'll do fine. I feel pretty comfortable with our FO's ability to manage this. They've shown quite a bit of savviness over the past few years.

 

[Jikkle]

Gotta keep having good drafts. Good teams let good players walk. If you can fill those holes with younger players you'll do fine. I feel pretty comfortable with our FO's ability to manage this. They've shown quite a bit of savviness over the past few years.

To add we also do an excellent job of managing the cap and playing with the numbers of players contracts to spread out the impact of the cap hit.

A majority of our contracts are friendly to the team but fair to the player and that's one thing Marthe has been excellent at.

 

[deep9er]

Take it from a fan of a team that hasn't had a young franchise QB in YEARS... (Warner was a stop gap)
YOU NEED TO OVERPAY FOR A QB. Franchise QB's don't come around too often so lock yours up while you can. You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't have a QB you can only go so far.

To judge Flacco off of one game is really dumb. While I don't think he was essentially worth the money he got, he did help lead them to a Super Bowl and that is never easy to do and if they didn't overpay him then some other team would and they'd be left with no QB. There's nothing worse then having a terrible QB situation.

well said, and you would think 49er fans would remember it wasn't too long ago for us..........we didn't have a good QB or at least didn't have good QB performances.

 

[deep9er]

The fact of the matter is if you want to be in the mix year in and year out you need an elite franchise QB.

The key to keeping that window open is you need a GM that drafts successfully and plays with the numbers well when it comes to contracts. The players mainly care about the guaranteed money so there are ways to front load and back load contracts to give yourself cap flexibility when you need it to be able to retain players. Obviously you can't retain them all but you should be able to keep quite a few if you play your cards right.

yep, the key is good drafting.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm cautiously optimistic that Kap will give us something of a home-team discount. I think he'll still want to get paid if he has a great season, but I don't think he'll demand such a high salary that it hamstrings the team's ability to give him a solid supporting cast.

 

[supreme_clientele81]

I'm cautiously optimistic that Kap will give us something of a home-team discount. I think he'll still want to get paid if he has a great season, but I don't think he'll demand such a high salary that it hamstrings the team's ability to give him a solid supporting cast.

To Piggyback on the "home team discount" I think his relationship with Harbaugh will also motivate Kap to give the 49ers a discount. I know that Harbaugh had a relationship with Smith that on the surface seems to be similar to his and Kaps but all the things that Harbaugh wants from a player Kap posses and he not only took a chance on him by moving up in the draft for him but he stuck with Kap after Smith got hurt so that loyalty I think will be rewarded with a discount IMO

 

[David_son]

Are you serious? Did you read what you just wrote?

This is why I don't have a high opinion of football fans in general. They're running down the street with a bottle of champagne saying "greatest of all time" after a regular season win and they're jumping out of a sky scraper after a regular season loss saying "there's no hope."



...Except for Raider fans who tip over cars, burn things and shoot people after a loss and tip over cars, burn things and shoot people after a win.

You already used that line in the Flacco is Elite thread

 

[Kinzu]

Take it from a fan of a team that hasn't had a young franchise QB in YEARS... (Warner was a stop gap)
YOU NEED TO OVERPAY FOR A QB. Franchise QB's don't come around too often so lock yours up while you can. You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't have a QB you can only go so far.

To judge Flacco off of one game is really dumb. While I don't think he was essentially worth the money he got, he did help lead them to a Super Bowl and that is never easy to do and if they didn't overpay him then some other team would and they'd be left with no QB. There's nothing worse then having a terrible QB situation.

Yes there is
It's called cap constraints. When you tie up a lot of your salary cap into 1 player they better be worth the 2 to 4 good players you could have signed with that money. You're sacrificing talent across the board because you believe this one player is good enough to carry you through it. When you over pay for a player that is not good enough you end up mediocre at best. It's not like letting Flacco walk and tanking this season would have been a horrible idea. Their are some good young QB's in next years draft, and the Ravens are probably not making the playoffs even with Flacco this year.

I don't know, they locked up their QB for the next several years, but it might take a few seasons for them to rebuild the talent they just lost. Is it better to be a middle of the pack team fighting for a wild card spot every year or tank a few season to stock up on talent for a Super Bowl run?

 

[NinerSickness]

You already used that line in the Flacco is Elite thread

Actually, I used it here first; but it applied in the Flacco thread & I like trash talking about Raider fans; so I recycled it.

 

[David_son]

Actually, I used it here first; but it applied in the Flacco thread & I like trash talking about Raider fans; so I recycled it.

I guess the good ones never get old huh.

 

[David_son]

Yes there is
It's called cap constraints. When you tie up a lot of your salary cap into 1 player they better be worth the 2 to 4 good players you could have signed with that money. You're sacrificing talent across the board because you believe this one player is good enough to carry you through it. When you over pay for a player that is not good enough you end up mediocre at best. It's not like letting Flacco walk and tanking this season would have been a horrible idea. Their are some good young QB's in next years draft, and the Ravens are probably not making the playoffs even with Flacco this year.

I don't know, they locked up their QB for the next several years, but it might take a few seasons for them to rebuild the talent they just lost. Is it better to be a middle of the pack team fighting for a wild card spot every year or tank a few season to stock up on talent for a Super Bowl run?

I would think some Teams would disagree with your assessment. Steelers kept franchise QB retooled and won 2 Sb after a recent retool will probably be there again shortly. Patriots and Giants same way. Miami loses Marino have not had the same success Bills have had no Franchise QB since Kelly left and havent been to the playoff is almost just as long. That Franchise QB is important I would not let someone you believe in to walk away just because you go though a little salary hell that can be fixed with good drafting.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes there is
It's called cap constraints. When you tie up a lot of your salary cap into 1 player they better be worth the 2 to 4 good players you could have signed with that money. You're sacrificing talent across the board because you believe this one player is good enough to carry you through it. When you over pay for a player that is not good enough you end up mediocre at best. It's not like letting Flacco walk and tanking this season would have been a horrible idea. Their are some good young QB's in next years draft, and the Ravens are probably not making the playoffs even with Flacco this year.

I don't know, they locked up their QB for the next several years, but it might take a few seasons for them to rebuild the talent they just lost. Is it better to be a middle of the pack team fighting for a wild card spot every year or tank a few season to stock up on talent for a Super Bowl run?

I think it depends on your assessment of the QB. If you think your guy is a franchise player, he's definitely worth the 2-4 good players who would otherwise get the money. If he's a borderline franchise QB, then he's not. But if you've got a franchise QB, you've got to lock him up.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Yes there is
It's called cap constraints. When you tie up a lot of your salary cap into 1 player they better be worth the 2 to 4 good players you could have signed with that money. You're sacrificing talent across the board because you believe this one player is good enough to carry you through it. When you over pay for a player that is not good enough you end up mediocre at best. It's not like letting Flacco walk and tanking this season would have been a horrible idea. Their are some good young QB's in next years draft, and the Ravens are probably not making the playoffs even with Flacco this year.

I don't know, they locked up their QB for the next several years, but it might take a few seasons for them to rebuild the talent they just lost. Is it better to be a middle of the pack team fighting for a wild card spot every year or tank a few season to stock up on talent for a Super Bowl run?

I will use my Cardinals as an example again... how has this worked out for them? They thought they had their franchise guy in Matt Lienart when they drafted him but he didn't pan out obviously which goes to show you that there is no sure thing in the draft. There are plenty of teams that have been tanking for a while now with no success.
I'd rather take my chances being led by a QB thats won a Super Bowl with mediocre talent surrounding him (which can always be upgraded via the Draft)than take my chances with a terrible QB surrounded by a talented team. (2012 Cardinals)

I get what you're saying about cap space but it's easier to draft and build around a franchise QB than any other position, imo.

 

[imac_21]

I don't understand where this notion that you can't have other great players without a great QB comes from. It isn't as if the Cowboys are screwed financially because of Romo's contract. They also have Ware, Brandon Carr, Sean Lee and there have been no suggestions they can't afford Dez.

Baltimore's roster purge was more abut getting younger than not affording players.

Rodgers hasn't forced anyone out of GB, Manning hasn't in New York, Brady hasn't in New England (Welker leaving was about not wanting to pay him that what he wanted, not that they didn't have the money).

I don't think re-signing Kaep and Aldon will be an issue, and honestly I think Crabtree will no problem as well.

 

[MHSL82]

To Piggyback on the "home team discount" I think his relationship with Harbaugh will also motivate Kap to give the 49ers a discount. I know that Harbaugh had a relationship with Smith that on the surface seems to be similar to his and Kaps but all the things that Harbaugh wants from a player Kap posses and he not only took a chance on him by moving up in the draft for him but he stuck with Kap after Smith got hurt so that loyalty I think will be rewarded with a discount IMO

I won't comment on Smith, just Kaepernick.

I may be drunk on the koolaid or naïve, but I feel Kaepernick will reward us, as I do feel that he truly cares about legacy over money. He has shown that while he doesn't let it distract him and he will turn down endorsements, he will do some that will make up for any difference. Cut in pay here + endorsements as a championship QB + possible longer career (more long-term oline help) > draining our resources + regular endorsements + possible shorter career (no oline money).

I feel he would sacrifice total dollar amount, for say, guaranteed amount. I mean, he'll take a cut to be on championship teams, but maybe not to be on the bench if injured (?), knock on wood. AND NO, I AM NOT REFERRING TO ANYTHING ABOUT RUNNING AS A QB, JUST REGULAR RISKS. As a bonus, smaller contract means more money for oline protection equals longer career equals more money. He's not in there to cash in.

I am not wrong about his priorities, but I may be wrong with how much he'll get.

 

[Kinzu]

I don't understand where this notion that you can't have other great players without a great QB comes from. It isn't as if the Cowboys are screwed financially because of Romo's contract. They also have Ware, Brandon Carr, Sean Lee and there have been no suggestions they can't afford Dez.

Baltimore's roster purge was more abut getting younger than not affording players.

Rodgers hasn't forced anyone out of GB, Manning hasn't in New York, Brady hasn't in New England (Welker leaving was about not wanting to pay him that what he wanted, not that they didn't have the money).

I don't think re-signing Kaep and Aldon will be an issue, and honestly I think Crabtree will no problem as well.

It's not as bad in the NFL as say the NBA, but you can't deny the upcoming pay days for some of the players on the 49ers roster is the reason Goldson was not resigned. I think we pretty much all know that some players on the current will not be re-signed when their contracts are up. It's all about deciding who can and cannot be replaced.

It's also not all about the QB. When you look at a lot of the teams that have QB issues all you have to do is look at the front office and coaching staff around them. While some QB's are duds a lot of the time it's just poor scheme's and coaching around them. Whisenhunt did wonders for the Cardinals defense and was able to win with a veteran like Warner, but he simply could not develop a young QB no matter how many the Cards signed to the roster.

Look at us with Alex Smith. Everyone thought he was a draft bust because the defense here was top 10, but the offense always stunk. Harbaugh comes along and Baalke takes over the front office and suddenly he plays like a top 10 QB. A huge part of coaching is identifying a person's strength and weakness and catering how you use them to maximize their strengths and minimize the weakness. You can't coach a dog to be a cat so to speak.

 

[MHSL82]

I don't want to get carried away because he deserves what he deserves, but they could sign all the guys they think they need to win and just make sure they pay Kaepernick the most out of all of them. Is that doable with long term contracts? I don't think so, unless we have a GM who has good vision, which we do. Now, the problem with that is that QBs are often the highest paid players on the team even when they're not near the best relative to their position. So there would have to be an adjustment from there. That's where Kaep's pay would be upped a lot. But it doesn't have to break the bank if Kaep's game for it.

If I were the best QB in the world and I had some magical no-injury guarantee. I would sign one year contracts every year doing this. But that's because I could live off the paltry 10-20 million dollars. Obviously, the fact that everyone is subject to injury, I'd go the longer-term contract way.

 

[MHSL82]

It's not as bad in the NFL as say the NBA, but you can't deny the upcoming pay days for some of the players on the 49ers roster is the reason Goldson was not resigned. I think we pretty much all know that some players on the current will not be re-signed when their contracts are up. It's all about deciding who can and cannot be replaced.

It's also not all about the QB. When you look at a lot of the teams that have QB issues all you have to do is look at the front office and coaching staff around them. While some QB's are duds a lot of the time it's just poor scheme's and coaching around them. Whisenhunt did wonders for the Cardinals defense and was able to win with a veteran like Warner, but he simply could not develop a young QB no matter how many the Cards signed to the roster.

Look at us with Alex Smith. Everyone thought he was a draft bust because the defense here was top 10, but the offense always stunk. Harbaugh comes along and Baalke takes over the front office and suddenly he plays like a top 10 QB. A huge part of coaching is identifying a person's strength and weakness and catering how you use them to maximize their strengths and minimize the weakness. You can't coach a dog to be a cat so to speak.

I get the gist of it, but I wouldn't be talking about Smith as playing like a top ten QB. I liked him but I wouldn't say that. He did play well (and some statistics support better than well and some don't) and while the consensus is he wasn't an overall first pick, I think (won't speak for others) he was a first rounder if he had the coaching. He showed a bit of that here when he had the coaching or at the end of 2010 when he stopped listening to the bad coaches (as you said).

 

[imac_21]

It's not as bad in the NFL as say the NBA, but you can't deny the upcoming pay days for some of the players on the 49ers roster is the reason Goldson was not resigned. I think we pretty much all know that some players on the current will not be re-signed when their contracts are up. It's all about deciding who can and cannot be replaced.

It's a pretty easy argument to make actually. Goldson wasn't re-signed because the franchise felt he wasn't worth what he was asking for. I saw something the other day that we have ~38M in cap room for next year right now, and ~77M for 2015. Obviously we don't have everyone under contract in those years, but we have a lot of our "big" players (Staley, Davis, Bowman, Willis). People make way too big of a deal out of how much QBs make.

It's also not all about the QB. When you look at a lot of the teams that have QB issues all you have to do is look at the front office and coaching staff around them. While some QB's are duds a lot of the time it's just poor scheme's and coaching around them. Whisenhunt did wonders for the Cardinals defense and was able to win with a veteran like Warner, but he simply could not develop a young QB no matter how many the Cards signed to the roster.

Whisenhunt was the OC in Pitt for Roehtlisberger's development. He was an offensive guy. I don't know that he had that much scheme influence on the defense. I think he had established his ability to develop a QB though.

Look at us with Alex Smith. Everyone thought he was a draft bust because the defense here was top 10, but the offense always stunk. Harbaugh comes along and Baalke takes over the front office and suddenly he plays like a top 10 QB. A huge part of coaching is identifying a person's strength and weakness and catering how you use them to maximize their strengths and minimize the weakness. You can't coach a dog to be a cat so to speak.

Smith did not play like a top 10 QB. At least not a top 10 QB in 2011. He finished
19th in passing yards
11th in comp %
17th in YPA
17th in TDs
9th in passer rating
last in INT (in a good way) among starting QBs

The only stats in which he was top 10 are passer rating (barely) and interceptions.

His play has been greatly overvalued because he didn't suck with Harbaugh. And as iguana will tell you, that transformation began the year before with Singletary.

 

[maniax]

I don't understand where this notion that you can't have other great players without a great QB comes from. It isn't as if the Cowboys are screwed financially because of Romo's contract. They also have Ware, Brandon Carr, Sean Lee and there have been no suggestions they can't afford Dez.

Baltimore's roster purge was more abut getting younger than not affording players.

Rodgers hasn't forced anyone out of GB, Manning hasn't in New York, Brady hasn't in New England (Welker leaving was about not wanting to pay him that what he wanted, not that they didn't have the money).

I don't think re-signing Kaep and Aldon will be an issue, and honestly I think Crabtree will no problem as well.

I do believe teams with high paid QBs have to skimp somewhere. Patriots have a bunch of no-name receivers. Packers have horrible tackles and they let Jennings walk because they have 3 cheaper option WRs. New Orleans has cheap WRs and RBBC. Teams with the $20M QB have to skimp out somewhere.

Broncos are probably the best example of having a $20M QB and not looking too skimpy anywhere.
Pretty good O-line, pretty good D, awesome WRs (thanks to good drafting: Thomas x2 + Decker).