If Denver wins do they become the best Offense of all time?

[Tacoma_canuck]

The problem with the "talking heads" on the various networks is that they have a shorter attention span than a 2 year old and they get more caught up in the moment than even the worst "homer" fan.

The Hawks have an excellent defense for sure and yes, in this day and age of offensive football, what they have accomplished is great. But there is no way I could include them in any conversation with the 76 "steel curtain", the 85 Bears or some of the other great defenses ever. At least not yet. And even if they hold Denver to some outrageously low totals ( and that's a really big if), it's one game. We would have to watch the game and see how they did it. I don't always give the defense all the credit when guys on offense make stupid mistakes. Not saying that will happen but anything is possible. Found this link pretty interesting for perspective.

Top 10: All-Time NFL Defenses - AskMen

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

P.S. I already consider Denver's offense the best ever although there are a couple out there like the 07 Pats that are really close.

 

[leomaz]

No........maybe in the "offensive rules era" but not of all time

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Nobody is calling Seattle one of the best defenses of all time.


That is homerism at its best.


Maybe if they have a few years run with this core....maybe....


The OP failed once that part was added.

 

[NEhomer]

They already have the title of the best regular season offense of all time. At least as far as scoring, TD's, and yards. If they can beat Seattle with it's #1 NFC seed and #1 ranked defense, who many are comparing to one of the best defenses of all time, will that clinch them as the #1 offense of all time?

And, on the flip side, if Seattle wins and somehow manages to keep the highest scoring offense of all time to say 10 points or less should they be considered one of the best defenses of all time?

This Superbowl is going to be insanely good just because of questions like these.

One of? Sure.

85 Bears set the bar pretty high though.

 

[Money]

One of? Sure.

85 Bears set the bar pretty high though.

The 2000 Ravens set it a bit higher.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Nobody is calling Seattle one of the best defenses of all time.


That is homerism at its best.


Maybe if they have a few years run with this core....maybe....


The OP failed once that part was added.

"In addition to the 2002 Buccaneers, the 1985 Bears and the 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers also rank high on the list of best pass defenses since 1970. While a look at the raw numbers would indicate that the Seahawks’ defense cannot compare to the game’s great defenses, that is only because the modern N.F.L. environment is skewed heavily toward the pass. After adjusting for era, the Seahawks’ pass defense is only a Super Bowl championship away from being considered one of history’s best. " ~ Chase Stuart NY Times
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"The Seattle Seahawks' defense is in elite company when it comes to defensive stats, becoming only the third team since the NFL-AFL merger to lead the league in points allowed, yards and turnovers.
The other two were the 1970 Minnesota Vikings and the 1985 Chicago Bears, which some consider the best defense ever." ~Pete Prisco CBS Sports
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"On the other hand, if the Seahawks continue to dominate, I doubt this will be the last look at how this team stacks up against some of the all time greats from NFL history. "~Keith Myers Bleacher Report
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"Run the numbers and they suggest that the Seahawks, who can clinch the NFC West Sunday, features a defense that compares favorably with some of the best in NFL history."~Steve Rudman SportsPress
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Now all of that does not mean they are the best D ever or that they should be considered that either for the moment. It shows (to my original point) that people (writers, analysts) are beginning to discuss it and the clincher could be if they can hold the greatest offense of all time to very little scoring they would have to get included in that conversation as one of the best ever Defenses.

 

[Midnightangel]

Win or lose Denver's offence is probably already the tops of all times unless it is just terrible in this game and no one thinks that is going to happen.

If Seattle holds them to season low numbers on defense and wins the game then our D will be up there among the top 5 or so of all time. Probably the best since the '85 bears, but all time? No. Still a very young unit and they have a lot of room to grow.

Yes, pot has been legalized in WA.

There are 3 defenses one lists when talking about the best ever:

(in chronological order)

'78 Steelers

'85 Bears

'00 Ravens

Of these three I think the '85 Bears is the best.

You're not better than them.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Yes, pot has been legalized in WA.

There are 3 defenses one lists when talking about the best ever:

(in chronological order)

'78 Steelers

'85 Bears

'00 Ravens

Of these three I think the '85 Bears is the best.

You're not better than them.

Did the 85 bears get a chance to prove their defense is amongst the best ever by playing the statistically best offense of all time in the Superbowl? That is the opportunity Seattle has right now. Anyways, it wouldn't be enough to just win the SB for Seattle to join that conversation, they would need to nearly shut down Denver's offense. If by some miracle they were able to do that you wouldn't concede them to be at least in the discussion for best D ever? In 1985 when the Bears beat New England for the SB, New England was the 9th ranked offense of that season and only averaged 22.6 pts per game. NE wasn't even the best Offense in that year. That is where I see the difference in the challenge that is set out for the Seahawks. They will go against the best offense ever that averages 38 pts per game.

 

[Money]

Did the 85 bears get a chance to prove their defense is amongst the best ever by playing the statistically best offense of all time in the Superbowl? That is the opportunity Seattle has right now. Anyways, it wouldn't be enough to just win the SB for Seattle to join that conversation, they would need to nearly shut down Denver's offense. If by some miracle they were able to do that you wouldn't concede them to be at least in the discussion for best D ever? In 1985 when the Bears beat New England for the SB, New England was the 9th ranked offense of that season and only averaged 22.6 pts per game. NE wasn't even the best Offense in that year. That is where I see the difference in the challenge that is set out for the Seahawks. They will go against the best offense ever that averages 38 pts per game.

If they shut down Denver (and win the game), they will be in the discussion.

I bolded win the game, because only Super Bowl champs are considered. The 2006 Ravens defense was actually better than the 2000 Ravens defense, but never gets mentioned.

 

[Midnightangel]

Did the 85 bears get a chance to prove their defense is amongst the best ever by playing the statistically best offense of all time in the Superbowl? That is the opportunity Seattle has right now. Anyways, it wouldn't be enough to just win the SB for Seattle to join that conversation, they would need to nearly shut down Denver's offense. If by some miracle they were able to do that you wouldn't concede them to be at least in the discussion for best D ever? In 1985 when the Bears beat New England for the SB, New England was the 9th ranked offense of that season and only averaged 22.6 pts per game. NE wasn't even the best Offense in that year. That is where I see the difference in the challenge that is set out for the Seahawks. They will go against the best offense ever that averages 38 pts per game.

When you're THAT good, your fanbase doesn't have to ask the question.

Savvy?

No, the LOB isn't one of the greatest ever.

Geez...you guys....

I'm hearing that Lynch is the best RB in the NFL today.

That he's going to get 150 yards against the Broncos

And now I'm hearing that you think your defense might be one of the best ever.

Why not just come out and say that Russell Wilson is the GOAT QB, or Pete Carrol the GOAT HC? Or Sherman is the GOAT CB?

You guys are really, REALLY full of yourselves there in Seattle.

 

[WizardHawk]

Yes, pot has been legalized in WA.

There are 3 defenses one lists when talking about the best ever:

(in chronological order)

'78 Steelers

'85 Bears

'00 Ravens

Of these three I think the '85 Bears is the best.

You're not better than them.

You once again prove you are just a hater looking to make shit up to hate on. I didn't say Seattle's defense was better than the '85 bears. I did say if they win the SB AND hold Denver to season lows on offense (which I don't think will happen) THEN they MIGHT be considered the best SINCE those bears of '85. Yes, that means many would put them ahead of the Ravens and the '02 bucs. YOU of course would not put them above any other defense in history as you have a hate filled agenda to stick to and we get that.

There are other defenses of the past I'd still keep above Seattle no matter how they finish in this game as well. Don't forget the purple people eaters or a few of the others from that era.

The problem with comparing those of that era to today is the drastic changes to the game. Even in the last 10 years the changes to penalties on defenses has drastically reduced their effectiveness so there will be a lot of debate over how to compare and contrast any defense of today with those of that era. Instead of just comparing overall ppg allowed it will have to be as a percentage of difference from the league average.

It is writers from all over the country talking about this defenses place in history, not just Seahawk fans. This isn't a homer exercise.

It's not shock though that you insist I was making some claim as that's what you do. I don't believe Seattle will hold Manning down to the levels they would need to in order to make that reach. I simply said that's what would be required. Even if Seattle wins, but Manning goes for 400y passing, the defense will be simply listed as the best of this year and maybe the last couple, but that's it.

Can't wait to see the next brain dead post of yours attempting to put words in others mouths and showing your clear lack of basic football knowledge. We all know it's coming.

 

[WizardHawk]

When you're THAT good, your fanbase doesn't have to ask the question.

Savvy?

No, the LOB isn't one of the greatest ever.

Geez...you guys....

I'm hearing that Lynch is the best RB in the NFL today.

That he's going to get 150 yards against the Broncos

And now I'm hearing that you think your defense might be one of the best ever.

Why not just come out and say that Russell Wilson is the GOAT QB, or Pete Carrol the GOAT HC? Or Sherman is the GOAT CB?

You guys are really, REALLY full of yourselves there in Seattle.

You seriously are one of the biggest dumb asses I've ever seen. And that's saying something.

ONE person said he thinks Lynch will go for 150y and you keep harping on it as though all of us said that. Doesn't matter that we have said over and over we don't all see it that way, you refuse to see it.

All of your dramatic hyperbole might make you feel smarter, but I can't imagine even one reader on this site buys into any of it. You aren't fooling anyone. You are clearly an elitist arrogant hater looking for excuses to justify your hate.

Get over yourself.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

When you're THAT good, your fanbase doesn't have to ask the question.

Savvy?

No, the LOB isn't one of the greatest ever.

Geez...you guys....

I'm hearing that Lynch is the best RB in the NFL today.

That he's going to get 150 yards against the Broncos

And now I'm hearing that you think your defense might be one of the best ever.

Why not just come out and say that Russell Wilson is the GOAT QB, or Pete Carrol the GOAT HC? Or Sherman is the GOAT CB?

You guys are really, REALLY full of yourselves there in Seattle.

Your sidetracking a bunch of different directions. I'm talking about the defense and I posted 3 or 4 articles to demonstrate that (while you may not believe it) some analysts are discussing this Seattle defense as one of the best ever. Why does it bother you so much that some people would like to take a look and talk about whether they might or might not be in that discussion? I haven't heard anyone since Lynch is best all time, or Sherman, or Wilson, but since you brought it up there is one article discussing Pete Carroll's potential for greatness if he can get a couple SB wins combined with the USC titles.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

When you're THAT good, your fanbase doesn't have to ask the question.

Savvy?

No, the LOB isn't one of the greatest ever.

Geez...you guys....

I'm hearing that Lynch is the best RB in the NFL today.

That he's going to get 150 yards against the Broncos

And now I'm hearing that you think your defense might be one of the best ever.

Why not just come out and say that Russell Wilson is the GOAT QB, or Pete Carrol the GOAT HC? Or Sherman is the GOAT CB?

You guys are really, REALLY full of yourselves there in Seattle.

You're sidetracking a bunch of different directions. I'm talking about the defense and I posted 3 or 4 articles to demonstrate that (while you may not believe it) some analysts are discussing this Seattle defense as one of the best ever. Why does it bother you so much that some people would like to take a look and talk about whether they might or might not be in that discussion? I haven't heard anyone saying Lynch is best all time, or Sherman, or Wilson, but since you brought it up there is one article discussing Pete Carroll's potential for greatness if he can get a couple SB wins combined with the USC titles.

 

[WizardHawk]

Your sidetracking a bunch of different directions. I'm talking about the defense and I posted 3 or 4 articles to demonstrate that (while you may not believe it) some analysts are discussing this Seattle defense as one of the best ever. Why does it bother you so much that some people would like to take a look and talk about whether they might or might not be in that discussion? I haven't heard anyone since Lynch is best all time, or Sherman, or Wilson, but since you brought it up there is one article discussing Pete Carroll's potential for greatness if he can get a couple SB wins combined with the USC titles.

Have you not noticed that she is the new breaker? Have you ever seen a single post by her either agreeing with a Seahawk fan, or even just having a discussion? Every one of her posts to us, or about us, is full of nothing but hate and hyperbole. Attempting to reason with her is futile. She has no interest in hearing what you are actually saying.

Thankfully most of the Denver fans are far easier to have a discussion with. We may all see things through the lenses of our own team, but most of us understand how that works and don't take it personally when others don't see things our way. You would be much better served ignoring her insanity and attempting to discuss things with those who don't have their heads inserted squarely up their own asses.

 

[Money]

If Seattle wins and holds Denver in check, I think they will be placed right with TB '02 in the all-time rankings. They will not crack the top 3.

 

[Midnightangel]

You're sidetracking a bunch of different directions. I'm talking about the defense and I posted 3 or 4 articles to demonstrate that (while you may not believe it) some analysts are discussing this Seattle defense as one of the best ever. Why does it bother you so much that some people would like to take a look and talk about whether they might or might not be in that discussion? I haven't heard anyone saying Lynch is best all time, or Sherman, or Wilson, but since you brought it up there is one article discussing Pete Carroll's potential for greatness if he can get a couple SB wins combined with the USC titles.

Liked it so much you posted it twice?

Relax...just teasing you a bit on that. We've all done it.

Now...back on topic...

This defense is not one of the best ever - if it were, it would have been brought up mid season or so like it was with the '85 Bears or '00 Ravens.

I've heard a Seahawk fan say that Lynch is the best RB in the game today. He must not have heard about that guy in Minn.

An article discussing Carrols greatness IF he can get a couple SB titles?

When he beats Vince Lombardi's mark of 6 in 9 years, then we can discuss him being GOAT.

When he hits 4 we can discuss him being better than either Noll or Walsh.

See where I'm going here?

While some say championships are a measure of a QB's greatness, I think differently on that since those are a team award. I believe they're the primary consideration concerning coaches. No one has more - or even as many - as St. Vince.

As far as his titles at USC go, I have to take them with a grain of salt considering all the trouble he got the university into while winning them.

 

[SonnyCID]

Like cwood said yesterday, you can really only measure these comparisons by era. There were plenty of defenses in the 70s that averaged 10 points on defense, we will probably never see those types of numbers again. It's funny though that great defenses NEED to win the sb to be considered great, but all an offense needs is a great regular season to be considered great.

This Broncos offense is one of the best of this era, up there with the 07 Pats. This Seahawk defense is one of the best of this era, up there with the 08 Steelers.

 

[Midnightangel]

Like cwood said yesterday, you can really only measure these comparisons by era. There were plenty of defenses in the 70s that averaged 10 points on defense, we will probably never see those types of numbers again. It's funny though that great defenses NEED to win the sb to be considered great, but all an offense needs is a great regular season to be considered great.

This Broncos offense is one of the best of this era, up there with the 07 Pats. This Seahawk defense is one of the best of this era, up there with the 08 Steelers.

GOD DAMMIT!!!!

How the fuck am I supposed to argue with logic like this?!!?

Now you've gone and done it......I agree with you!



IF the Seahawks win, THEN I'd put them up there with the '02 Bucs or '08 Steelers but not in my top 3.

And yes, everything has to be judged by era - QB's included. I always roll my eyes when people say Brady or Manning is the best ever. They played under a different set of rules than Slingin' Sammy Baugh or Johnny Unitas so of COURSE their numbers are going to be higher. Hell, Sammy's football was 6 inches more round in the middle. Try throwing that.