I hope Michael Sam flames out in the NFL

[whysies]

Actually Sick, this is what you said:

And nobody on planet earth is "discriminating" against Michael Sam by the way.

Honest question: Have you had some sort of brain injury at some point?

Edited to add: I mean, if you're going to be an insufferable pedant at least own up to the literal meaning of sentences you type.

 

[NinerSickness]

The "homo movement?"

Does that hurt your feewings? Would it have hurt less if I put an apostrophe next to "homo"? Or if I simply spelled out homosexual? As contentious as a subject as this is, and THAT is what you choose to criticize?

 

[NinerSickness]

Actually Sick, this is what you said:

And if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that I explained that I was referring to the context of his NFL career.

Now go away because you're being a dick as usual.

 

[whysies]

Does that hurt your feewings? Would it have hurt less if I put an apostrophe next to "homo"? Or if I simply spelled out homosexual? As contentious as a subject as this is, and THAT is what you choose to criticize?

I just think calling it a movement or agenda or whatever is weird, Antonin.

But of course, you using the word "homo" is clearly meant to be derogatory, and you know that.

In b4 something something "Damn Liberals!"

I do appreciate you admitting that it is your own prejudice that fuels your thoughts on this issue. That's a clear step in the right direction. Why didn't you just say that upfront and spare poor Crimson the wasted effort of trying to rationally discuss things with you?

 

[whysies]

And if you knew what you were talking about you'd know that I explained that I was referring to the context of his NFL career.

Now go away because you're being a dick as usual.

You said nobody on planet earth. Come on. People are supposed to read through your bullshit lines but adhere to strict dictionary definitions when that pleases you?

 

[Xponentialchaos]

It isn't subjective at all. The suffix "phobic" means to be afraid of something. It comes from the noun "phobia."

Arachnophobia | Define Arachnophobia at Dictionary.com --- noun an abnormal or pathological fear of spiders.

Agoraphobia | Define Agoraphobia at Dictionary.com --- noun Psychiatry.
an abnormal fear of being in crowds, public places, or open areas, sometimes accompanied by anxiety attacks.

Galeophobia | Define Galeophobia at Dictionary.com --- Noun a fear of cats

Liberals play word games and change the definition of words, and I call them out on it.



Any person, gay or straight, is capable of not committing homosexual sex acts. Are some people incapable of not being attracted to men? Who knows. I might not be capable of being attracted to your wife, but that doesn't mean it would be ok for me to fuck her. A black person is not capable of not being black. All kinds of people have been hated or mistreated because of things like race, being gay, their religion, their political beliefs and so on. That's wrong. I don't hate gay people. I don't like them, but I certainly don't hate them; and I'm perfectly polite to them when our paths cross. The abolitioninist / civil rights movement defended & defends differing treatment because of something that simply is and can't be altered. The homo' movement is defending a behaviour. It's not the same thing.

Again, I'm using the definition from Webster's Dictionary and other dictionary sources. If you have a problem with the definition that's in the book, then your issue is with the powers that be, not me for using said definition. I'm going to go ahead and say that I think they are a more reliable source for the definitions of words than you are. Maybe you should confront them and call them out on those elaborate liberal conspiracy theories of yours.

"All kinds of people have been hated or mistreated because of things like race, being gay, their religion, their political beliefs and so on."

That was the point! People are mistreated for their race and people are mistreated for being gay. Hence the comparison that you were arguing against in the first place. Look, you just made the same comparison. This is exactly why race and homosexuality are compared. You can take any similarity and find something different about them. Two similar things will never truly be the same. In this case, race is entirely immutable and homosexuality is a behavior. But that does not deny the simple and obvious truth that people are discriminated for both race and for gender. Hence the comparison in the first place.

So what exactly would you like gay people to do? I've gathered that you don't hate them but you don't approve of their behavior. Hypothetically, let's just suppose that you're the emperor of the world and everyone, including gay people, must do as you command. What's your ruling on gay people? Do you simply command them not to have sex until they choose to do it with a person of the opposite sex? Two loving and consenting adults want to get down, but nope, emperor Sickness doesn't approve. No sex for you two. Why are you so concerned with this behavior that's done in the privacy of their own homes?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

It isn't subjective at all. The suffix "phobic" means to be afraid of something. It comes from the noun "phobia."

Arachnophobia | Define Arachnophobia at Dictionary.com --- noun an abnormal or pathological fear of spiders.

Agoraphobia | Define Agoraphobia at Dictionary.com --- noun Psychiatry.
an abnormal fear of being in crowds, public places, or open areas, sometimes accompanied by anxiety attacks.

Galeophobia | Define Galeophobia at Dictionary.com --- Noun a fear of cats

Liberals play word games and change the definition of words, and I call them out on it.

It goes even deeper than we realized: they've gotten to the dictionary itself!

Homophobia - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

The pre-eminent American dictionary defines homophobia as:

"irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals"

 

[Crimsoncrew]

And again, why is this becoming liberals versus conservatives? I know a lot of conservatives who are not homophobic - sorry, who demonstrate an aversion to or discriminate against homosexuals - and a fair number of liberals who are.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm asking you to give examples of how people within the NFL gave him preferential treatment. Not the media. You blatantly said he isn't being discriminated against because that relates to his ability to get and retain a job. The media that covers the NFL does not have the ability to force a player into the league.

1. He got to bring his agent & a friggn' publicist to the NFL combine. Nobody else was allowed that privilege.
2. He got drafted because he's a gay player. 6 spots from the bottom of the entire draft. That was the NFL-draft version of Brett Favre laying down for Strahan's sack # 22 and a half. The Rams had a worthless pick to use in order to keep the story going.

I also see you're hedging now. Now you acknowledge there might be GMs who would discriminate against him (but haven't yet?) So much for your statement earlier that he hasn't been discriminated against. It's rather stupid to make such a zero sum statement anyway.

I'm not making a zero-sum statement; I'm saying he actually benefitted from being a gay dude. He's guaranteed to be a rich man now; not all 7th-round draft picks can say the same. He got drafted because he's gay rather than having to hack it as an UDFA. It's essentially the same thing in terms of his NFL career (which probably won't even get off the ground), but it gave him all kinds of publicity he can use in other avenues of life.

I'm interested in your evidence that the Rams GM drafted him "solely because he's gay." I mean, a statement like that should have at least a little evidence to back it up. Let's try this: What have the Rams gained by drafting him?

I'm interested in your evidence any NFL GMs thought he was the best player on the board & passed because he's gay. And keep in mind: Tony Dungy is not a GM. You can't prove he was discriminated against any more than I can prove he benefitted. But this isn't a court case.

What has happened to him? Tell me about the last 6 months of his life and how he has nothing to complain about. Do you think the reaction on twitter to the kiss he shared with his boyfriend after he was drafted is something to complain about? Do you think the countless blockheads that have criticized his lifestyle simply because they disagree with it could be something to complain about? Or do you think all of those bigots have kept their thoughts to themselves?

Twitter? That's what he has to complain about? People calling in to radio shows? He can cry about that all the way to the bank while he ca$hes in on his homosexuality either from endorsements or Oprah. Lots of people get criticized. That's life. He's not a victim. Harvey Milk was a victim.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Any person, gay or straight, is capable of not committing homosexual sex acts. Are some people incapable of not being attracted to men? Who knows. I might not be capable of being attracted to your wife, but that doesn't mean it would be ok for me to fuck her. A black person is not capable of not being black. All kinds of people have been hated or mistreated because of things like race, being gay, their religion, their political beliefs and so on. That's wrong. I don't hate gay people. I don't like them, but I certainly don't hate them; and I'm perfectly polite to them when our paths cross. The abolitioninist / civil rights movement defended & defends differing treatment because of something that simply is and can't be altered. The homo' movement is defending a behaviour. It's not the same thing.

Is sexuality an independent concept, or does it only arise through action? Do virgins lack a sexual orientation? Where do we draw that line where homosexuality arises? Touching? Kissing? Penetration?

Michael Sam has said that he is homosexual. I'm assuming that refers primarily to Webster's primary definition of that term:

of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

I'm not aware of Sam discussing the intimate details of his sex life openly. Are you? If not, is just kissing another man enough to make one homosexual?

As far as something that can or cannot be altered, do you think you could will yourself to be attracted exclusively to men? Could you stop being attracted to women?

 

[NinerSickness]

Is sexuality an independent concept, or does it only arise through action? Do virgins lack a sexual orientation? Where do we draw that line where homosexuality arises? Touching? Kissing? Penetration?

Michael Sam has said that he is homosexual. I'm assuming that refers primarily to Webster's primary definition of that term:

of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

I'm not aware of Sam discussing the intimate details of his sex life openly. Are you? If not, is just kissing another man enough to make one homosexual?

As far as something that can or cannot be altered, do you think you could will yourself to be attracted exclusively to men? Could you stop being attracted to women?

I actually don't care to whom people are attracted. Some people are attracted to little children. Some men (completely normal men) are attracted to teenage girls it would be statutory r*pe with whom to have sex (in fact men have been marrying 14, 15, 16 year old women / girls for millennia). Some men are attracted to men. I don't condone any of it coming to fruition.

And as far as Sam being gay gpes, I'm going to assume he's sexually active unless something indicates otherwise. It's a safe assumption. Gay men don't have rampant STDs because they like kissing.

 

[NinerSickness]

And again, why is this becoming liberals versus conservatives? I know a lot of conservatives who are not homophobic - sorry, who demonstrate an aversion to or discriminate against homosexuals - and a fair number of liberals who are.

I was responding to your indictment of people who are against illegal immigration not the homosexuality issue.

 

[darken65]

Not really trying to butt in on this lovely debate except to point out the word homophobia. We have seen the word gay and faggot change to other meanings (just an example...not meant to stir shit up) but the word phobia means only one thing...fear of something.With that understanding the word homophobia can mean only one thing regardless of what any dictionary might say it is...a fear of homosexuality. It is really that simple. Sam can do whatever he wants to do but the staged crap at the draft was tacky...no?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Because what you brought up IS about liberals and conservatives. Liberals like to say it's not about left VS right; it's about being "compassionate" to people VS being "xenophobic" (the aforementioned word games liberals play). They know it's bull shit, but that doesn't stop them from repeating the slogan to low-information voters.

What it's really about is left VS right. People on the right don't want the massive increase of government spending it takes to accept a tidal wave of people coming here illegally; people on the left are gambling that those people will vote for people with a D next to their names, so they say it's worth forcing everyone to pay for it because the ends justify the means. Lib's not only justify but are complicit in people breaking the law, and conservatives don't suffer people who break the law. It's that simple. Don't throw out coded Democrat slogans & then say it's not about left VS right.

When did this become about immigration? You questioned the meaning of the suffix "phobia." I'm not weighing in on immigration at all, I was simply pointing out that "phobia" is not limited to "fear or."

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No, I said nobody has negatively affected his career because he's gay. And that's absolutely true. Michael Sam is a borderline last on the depth chart / practice-squad / unemployed caliber football player, and 6 spots before Mr. Irrelevant is exactly where a guy like that belongs on draft day. In fact, the throw-away pick used to draft him was more than likely BECAUSE he's gay & can sell some jerseys & get people talking about / paying attention to the Rams.

If a single GM considered him before he was picked and passed on him because he was gay - even if it was based on the "media circus" - then he suffered from discrimination. Now, whether that actually happened or not is tough for us third party observers to say. It's hard for me to imagine that a guy who rushed the passer so successfully in the SEC would have gone undrafted, though. Even with the poor workout numbers.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Again, I'm using the definition from Webster's Dictionary and other dictionary sources. If you have a problem with the definition that's in the book, then your issue is with the powers that be, not me for using said definition. I'm going to go ahead and say that I think they are a more reliable source for the definitions of words than you are. Maybe you should confront them and call them out on those elaborate liberal conspiracy theories of yours.

"All kinds of people have been hated or mistreated because of things like race, being gay, their religion, their political beliefs and so on."

That was the point! People are mistreated for their race and people are mistreated for being gay. Hence the comparison that you were arguing against in the first place. Look, you just made the same comparison. This is exactly why race and homosexuality are compared. You can take any similarity and find something different about them. Two similar things will never truly be the same. In this case, race is entirely immutable and homosexuality is a behavior. But that does not deny the simple and obvious truth that people are discriminated for both race and for gender. Hence the comparison in the first place.

So what exactly would you like gay people to do? I've gathered that you don't hate them but you don't approve of their behavior. Hypothetically, let's just suppose that you're the emperor of the world and everyone, including gay people, must do as you command. What's your ruling on gay people? Do you simply command them not to have sex until they choose to do it with a person of the opposite sex? Two loving and consenting adults want to get down, but nope, emperor Sickness doesn't approve. No sex for you two. Why are you so concerned with this behavior that's done in the privacy of their own homes?

I would disagree with both of those statements. Race is a construct, and it has changed at times. In the antebellum South, you could be 80% white and still be considered wholly "black." Hell, all human life originated in Africa, so technically we're all African Americans.

And sexuality isn't a behavior. It can be expressed through behaviors, but it's not limited to those behaviors. Sexuality is who or what you are attracted to. In my experience, that doesn't really change. Some people are just attracted to members of either sex.

 

[NinerSickness]

When did this become about immigration? You questioned the meaning of the suffix "phobia." I'm not weighing in on immigration at all

Yes, and xenophobia means fear of foreigners. The groups meeting the buses of illegals in CA these days are xenophobic. They don't seem terribly afraid.

You may have forgotten you said that.

And yes, "phobic" means fear of. That's how it's used in EVERY single word in history except words liberals have hijacked to change the meaning because they add that suffix to anybody they want to feel like a victim.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I was responding to your indictment of people who are against illegal immigration not the homosexuality issue.

I wasn't indicting them. I was saying they are xenophobic. There may be entirely good and valid reasons for it. They are still displaying a fear/hatred of foreigners. Again, I'm not commenting on immigration. You were incorrectly applying the suffix "phobia" in the word "homophobia." I was pointing out that the word does is not limited to the emotion of fear.

 

[Dolemite censored]

...and not because he's gay or a Rams player. Apparently he just wants to be looked at as just a football player, and then there's this:

Oprah Wants to Make Miachael Sam a TV Star - Nation - Boston.com

8 part documentary. Yeah, go fuck yourself bro.

At least this is a distraction from Johnny Football.

 

[NinerSickness]

I wasn't indicting them. I was saying they are xenophobic. There may be entirely good and valid reasons for it. They are still displaying a fear/hatred of foreigners.

You already said you they didn't seem afraid, so you must think those people are displaying hatred of foreigners. That's not an indictment? You think there are valid reasons to hate foreigners? And why do you think those people hate foreigners?