how to become a perenial contender

[skinsdad62]

i believe there are several things needed to reach this goal . But before i get into that i want to tell you where i think we stand . Like it or not we are in year 3 of a rebuild .

that being said this should be the year that the gathering of players , coaches , scouts should be over and all should be paying dividends .

what jay gruden inherited was a slow weak , marginally talented squad with a broken qb and turmoil on the feild and off it

so i decided to look at some pro football dynasties and see what traits they had . i will start with the top 3 things

1) strong leadership top to bottom
2) multiple corp players
3) stability at qb

next they have the following
4) chemistry
5) FO stability
6)good scouting
7) value placed on their draft picks
8) move on from older players early rather then later

now lets see what we have

A) strong leadership i think we have a good HC who is a players coach , and has led us to 2 back to back winning seasons . does he have warts ? sure but overall he has provided stability at the position . the staff now has the top 2 LOS guys in the sport . BA and DS on the other hand have not . both have problems with patience and also telling the truth . you cant be an effective leader if you have integrity issues . so for us to reach the next level those 2 things need to change

B) multiple core players , i think we are set here with KC, Trent , sherf , reed crowder on offense and with allen RK cravens , norman BB on defense . there are potential risers in Zack brown Fuller DJS on defense and prior , kelly/perine dox on offense . This team talent wise is on the rise

C) stability at QB well for the past 20 plus years we have not had stability there . Now we have our chance to have it . KC has played less then half his career . he is a top 100 player . he has shown he can lead this team . yes he still has warts but he can fix most of them . look we can let him walk but dont kid yourself colt mccoy is a career BU and drafting a rookie means the much needed stability at the most important position gets pushed back for a few years . you can do it but remember the word patience . not a word most of you want to hear

D) chemistry This is kind of tricky because we are breaking in 2 new starting WRs and perhaps a RB on offense . on defense we most likely will have 2 new starting safeties 3 d/lineman a new ILB so about halt the defense is new . however if we are right on most of these guys then chemistry will be there

E) FO stability . we havent had much of that and egos from our top 2 guys cost us our GM . its done and that ship has sailed but the next hire is a big one because this is the major thing that is killing this team from getting good people . they also need patience . coming into this off season we should have been building up for a good FA signing period and looking at the draft . Instead a bunch of uneeded turmoil was what we got . the CSI , secret squirel intrigues need to go and working as a unit to be top priority

F) good scouting we have in my opinion been pretty good here . we have gotten younger , stronger faster . Now we have to get smarter and keep drafting good talent but also we need to keep drafting good leaders , to be honest i think this years draft was a very good one . only one real reach , maybe 2

G) value our draft picks , the last few years we have done just that . we traded down and got more picks . an occasional trade up (ie roulliers pick ) is good . however dont gut a draft for one player. the player could be good but so what if you gutted several drafts to get him ? this is how you get old and slow . Limit FA , use it to retain core players and occasionally hit a norman or Djax when they become available . stay away from expensive FA's most dont pan out unless you get a couple of no brainers .

H) Move on from older players . dont hang on to guys that are past there prime . recognize it and move on . as i see it we have 2 guys like that D hall and lavou . time for some younger blood

Now for a few odds and ends . always pick at least one o/lineman and one d/lineman in every draft . some will make it some wont but once you lose the LOS your contender status will soon follow

this is the way to build a contender . now look at it and see if some of the roster moves you want to make work towards this outline . if it doesnt then most likely its a bad short and long term goal

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Very good post Dad, agree with nearly every word. Of course the big issue this team can not shake is the man at the top. That is where it all starts and this is a huge hindrance to consistent success.

I agree with you about players like D Hall. Why he is even being considered at this point I guess speaks more about the players at that position than it does his ability.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

i believe there are several things needed to reach this goal . But before i get into that i want to tell you where i think we stand . Like it or not we are in year 3 of a rebuild .

that being said this should be the year that the gathering of players , coaches , scouts should be over and all should be paying dividends .

what jay gruden inherited was a slow weak , marginally talented squad with a broken qb and turmoil on the feild and off it

so i decided to look at some pro football dynasties and see what traits they had . i will start with the top 3 things

1) strong leadership top to bottom
2) multiple corp players
3) stability at qb

next they have the following
4) chemistry
5) FO stability
6)good scouting
7) value placed on their draft picks
8) move on from older players early rather then later

now lets see what we have

A) strong leadership i think we have a good HC who is a players coach , and has led us to 2 back to back winning seasons . does he have warts ? sure but overall he has provided stability at the position . the staff now has the top 2 LOS guys in the sport . BA and DS on the other hand have not . both have problems with patience and also telling the truth . you cant be an effective leader if you have integrity issues . so for us to reach the next level those 2 things need to change

B) multiple core players , i think we are set here with KC, Trent , sherf , reed crowder on offense and with allen RK cravens , norman BB on defense . there are potential risers in Zack brown Fuller DJS on defense and prior , kelly/perine dox on offense . This team talent wise is on the rise

C) stability at QB well for the past 20 plus years we have not had stability there . Now we have our chance to have it . KC has played less then half his career . he is a top 100 player . he has shown he can lead this team . yes he still has warts but he can fix most of them . look we can let him walk but dont kid yourself colt mccoy is a career BU and drafting a rookie means the much needed stability at the most important position gets pushed back for a few years . you can do it but remember the word patience . not a word most of you want to hear

D) chemistry This is kind of tricky because we are breaking in 2 new starting WRs and perhaps a RB on offense . on defense we most likely will have 2 new starting safeties 3 d/lineman a new ILB so about halt the defense is new . however if we are right on most of these guys then chemistry will be there

E) FO stability . we havent had much of that and egos from our top 2 guys cost us our GM . its done and that ship has sailed but the next hire is a big one because this is the major thing that is killing this team from getting good people . they also need patience . coming into this off season we should have been building up for a good FA signing period and looking at the draft . Instead a bunch of uneeded turmoil was what we got . the CSI , secret squirel intrigues need to go and working as a unit to be top priority

F) good scouting we have in my opinion been pretty good here . we have gotten younger , stronger faster . Now we have to get smarter and keep drafting good talent but also we need to keep drafting good leaders , to be honest i think this years draft was a very good one . only one real reach , maybe 2

G) value our draft picks , the last few years we have done just that . we traded down and got more picks . an occasional trade up (ie roulliers pick ) is good . however dont gut a draft for one player. the player could be good but so what if you gutted several drafts to get him ? this is how you get old and slow . Limit FA , use it to retain core players and occasionally hit a norman or Djax when they become available . stay away from expensive FA's most dont pan out unless you get a couple of no brainers .

H) Move on from older players . dont hang on to guys that are past there prime . recognize it and move on . as i see it we have 2 guys like that D hall and lavou . time for some younger blood

Now for a few odds and ends . always pick at least one o/lineman and one d/lineman in every draft . some will make it some wont but once you lose the LOS your contender status will soon follow

this is the way to build a contender . now look at it and see if some of the roster moves you want to make work towards this outline . if it doesnt then most likely its a bad short and long term goal

Very good post Dad, agree with nearly every word. Of course the big issue this team can not shake is the man at the top. That is where it all starts and this is a huge hindrance to consistent success.

I agree with you about players like D Hall. Why he is even being considered at this point I guess speaks more about the players at that position than it does his ability.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

WOOPS ANYWAYS THIS A GOOD POST IHAVE TO ASK WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY OLD? AGE WISE ? 8 YEARS IN THE NFL PLUS.. TO ME KC IS OLD HE BE 30 THIS YEAR...( AND I TOTALLY DISAGREE ON( E )AS YOU ALREADY KNOW SM AS OF NOW CREATED 12 MILLION DEAD CAP, DRAFT SHREFF GOOD PICK.. CROWDER WAS CAMPBELL GUY .. THERE IS NO EGO ITS SMART BUISNESS SM FAILED PERIOD

 

[Sharkinva]

WOOPS ANYWAYS THIS A GOOD POST IHAVE TO ASK WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY OLD? AGE WISE ? 8 YEARS IN THE NFL PLUS.. TO ME KC IS OLD HE BE 30 THIS YEAR...( AND I TOTALLY DISAGREE ON( E )AS YOU ALREADY KNOW SM AS OF NOW CREATED 12 MILLION DEAD CAP, DRAFT SHREFF GOOD PICK.. CROWDER WAS CAMPBELL GUY .. THERE IS NO EGO ITS SMART BUISNESS SM FAILED PERIOD

By saying Crowder was a Campbell guy, are you implying the SM didnt want to take Crowder?? Scot was the man in charge of the draft at that time. SO you cant simply say he was the person responsible for mistakes, but any good picks were done by some one beneath him. I realize you are all in on Bruce Allen, and there is a dislike among some because Scot choose to take Scherff over Williams, and there might even be a little animosity over some other roster moves Scot made. BUt seriously, this is gtting to be like the manager who wants all the credit for when things go well, but scapegoats his subordinates when stuff goes wrong.

 

[deanpet21]

By saying Crowder was a Campbell guy, are you implying the SM didnt want to take Crowder?? Scot was the man in charge of the draft at that time. SO you cant simply say he was the person responsible for mistakes, but any good picks were done by some one beneath him. I realize you are all in on Bruce Allen, and there is a dislike among some because Scot choose to take Scherff over Williams, and there might even be a little animosity over some other roster moves Scot made. BUt seriously, this is gtting to be like the manager who wants all the credit for when things go well, but scapegoats his subordinates when stuff goes wrong.

Just curious. If we have a wining season are you going to give Allen any credit at all?

 

[Sharkinva]

Just curious. If we have a wining season are you going to give Allen any credit at all?

I will give him credit for not screwing it up. He was handed a damn near bullet proof plan to move forward with. But Im not going to sit here and say Bruce is a genius when so far all he has managed to do is follow Scots blue print. Because I guarantee you if we have a losing season, Bruce will be the first to tell you that he was handicapped by mistakes the previous GM made.

 

[deanpet21]

I will give him credit for not screwing it up. He was handed a damn near bullet proof plan to move forward with. But Im not going to sit here and say Bruce is a genius when so far all he has managed to do is follow Scots blue print. Because I guarantee you if we have a losing season, Bruce will be the first to tell you that he was handicapped by mistakes the previous GM made.

Not screwing it up? What is his FA's flourish this year? Doesn't he deserve credit for that?

 

[Sharkinva]

Not screwing it up? What is his FA's flourish this year? Doesn't he deserve credit for that?

Why are you so desperate to give Bruce credit for something?? Or is it more that you want validation that Scot wasnt as good as advertised?? For all intents, we have been following the plan that Scot laid down, this has been stated multiple times. As a team, we are still trying to recover from mistakes made bu Bruce five years ago at this point. So the level of Kudos he will get from me for basically following Scots plan will be limited I assure you. Because as i have said, if it all goes well Bruce will be the first person to say "It was all me", if it goes side ways, Bruce will be the first one to blame some one else. And i have zero respect for people who operate in this manor.

 

[skinsdad62]

WOOPS ANYWAYS THIS A GOOD POST IHAVE TO ASK WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY OLD? AGE WISE ? 8 YEARS IN THE NFL PLUS.. TO ME KC IS OLD HE BE 30 THIS YEAR...( AND I TOTALLY DISAGREE ON( E )AS YOU ALREADY KNOW SM AS OF NOW CREATED 12 MILLION DEAD CAP, DRAFT SHREFF GOOD PICK.. CROWDER WAS CAMPBELL GUY .. THERE IS NO EGO ITS SMART BUISNESS SM FAILED PERIOD

coach campbell worked for SM at the time . every scout finds someone but the guy who pulled the trigger to draft him was SM . that is how it works . does that mean that every scout should get credit over BA's in the GM role . hell no and its never even debated

i dont know how we got back to SM but but players he drafted , crowder sherf and smith are all starters . cravens is a starter making it 4 fuller could win the slot guy making it 5 starters in his 2 drafts . rob kelly is also a starter for now making his rookie class having 6 starters

12 mil in dead cap money comes with using FA too much . dead cap space has been with the redskins since the cap has been in existence . blaming SM for that is ill informed . and wait why isnt the pro scout being blamed for that since you want the college scout to get all the credit for finding crowder . that would be campbell in that role too

 

[deanpet21]

Why are you so desperate to give Bruce credit for something?? Or is it more that you want validation that Scot wasnt as good as advertised?? For all intents, we have been following the plan that Scot laid down, this has been stated multiple times. As a team, we are still trying to recover from mistakes made bu Bruce five years ago at this point. So the level of Kudos he will get from me for basically following Scots plan will be limited I assure you. Because as i have said, if it all goes well Bruce will be the first person to say "It was all me", if it goes side ways, Bruce will be the first one to blame some one else. And i have zero respect for people who operate in this manor.

Why are you so desperate not to give Bruce credit? If the defense improves and Pryor has a huge season, Bruce will be getting the credit I assure you that. Especially if we are division winners and win a playoff game. On the flip side if we have a bad season and KC tanks then Bruce still gets the statement well I didn't want to sign KC long term anyways.

So either way he comes out smelling like a rose good or bad season. The only way this reflects bad on Bruce is if the defense totally tanks and we become the worst defense in the league. Stat wise and record wise.

 

[skinsdad62]

WOOPS ANYWAYS THIS A GOOD POST IHAVE TO ASK WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY OLD? AGE WISE ? 8 YEARS IN THE NFL PLUS.. TO ME KC IS OLD HE BE 30 THIS YEAR...( AND I TOTALLY DISAGREE ON( E )AS YOU ALREADY KNOW SM AS OF NOW CREATED 12 MILLION DEAD CAP, DRAFT SHREFF GOOD PICK.. CROWDER WAS CAMPBELL GUY .. THERE IS NO EGO ITS SMART BUISNESS SM FAILED PERIOD

when i say old i mean when you have lost a couple of steps . when you drop from star to avg . old is relative . if you think 30 is old for a qb then you are misinformed . KC has 8 seasons of great productivity left

 

[skinsdad62]

dean if you have a leader who has an integrity problem then you have no leader . if you dont understand that basic principle then you have no business in this conversation . and the only thing i mentioned was his lack of patience and integrity

 

[Sharkinva]

Why are you so desperate not to give Bruce credit? If the defense improves and Pryor has a huge season, Bruce will be getting the credit I assure you that. Especially if we are division winners and win a playoff game. On the flip side if we have a bad season and KC tanks then Bruce still gets the statement well I didn't want to sign KC long term anyways.

So either way he comes out smelling like a rose good or bad season. The only way this reflects bad on Bruce is if the defense totally tanks and we become the worst defense in the league. Stat wise and record wise.

Simply put, because nothing he has done deserves any credit yet. And because he was so quick to brush off his failures as some one elses screw up. Bruce has not earned the benefit of the doubt because he has shown to be exactly what i said. Take credit for the good, blame everyone else for the bad. Why should any one expect this to change?? If we do well, it shows he was able to once again follow some one elses plan and not screw it up. Good for him. When we are perennial contenders, have a solid roster, and arent making moves that are based more off of winning off the field consistently, then maybe Bruce deserves some credit. Until then, this off season is more the exception than the norm where Bruce is concerned.

 

[j_y19]

Dean, serious question. How old are you? You don't have to give exact age, just the range (Teens, early 20's etc).

Just curious.

 

[deanpet21]

Simply put, because nothing he has done deserves any credit yet. And because he was so quick to brush off his failures as some one elses screw up. Bruce has not earned the benefit of the doubt because he has shown to be exactly what i said. Take credit for the good, blame everyone else for the bad. Why should any one expect this to change?? If we do well, it shows he was able to once again follow some one elses plan and not screw it up. Good for him. When we are perennial contenders, have a solid roster, and arent making moves that are based more off of winning off the field consistently, then maybe Bruce deserves some credit. Until then, this off season is more the exception than the norm where Bruce is concerned.

So all the Fa's he singed was someone else's plan? lol. If we win this year Bruce is going to get credit like it or not. That is what I am saying to you.

 

[deanpet21]

Dean, serious question. How old are you? You don't have to give exact age, just the range (Teens, early 20's etc).

Just curious.

just b/c you don't agree what I said why do you want to know how old I am? God forbid you don't like what Sm did? lol. you are labeled as a hater.

 

[Sharkinva]

So all the Fa's he singed was someone else's plan? lol. If we win this year Bruce is going to get credit like it or not. That is what I am saying to you.

And what Im saying is, if it doesnt work out Bruce will lay the blame at some one elses feet as he has been known to do. Bruce has a lack of integrity, and a serious lack of credibility in the minds of alot of the fan base. Aside from the millennial generation, most expect him to find a way to screw this up. And when you have shown that you are all about taking credit for others work and blaming others for the failure.... some people do have issue with that kind of person.

So its not about liking or not liking what SM did for some of us. But I do think for some, the faith in Bruce is directly linked to not liking what SM did. Aside from this recent off season, what has Bruce done to actually inspire confidence??

 

[deanpet21]

And what Im saying is, if it doesnt work out Bruce will lay the blame at some one elses feet as he has been known to do. Bruce has a lack of integrity, and a serious lack of credibility in the minds of alot of the fan base. Aside from the millennial generation, most expect him to find a way to screw this up. And when you have shown that you are all about taking credit for others work and blaming others for the failure.... some people do have issue with that kind of person.

So its not about liking or not liking what SM did for some of us. But I do think for some, the faith in Bruce is directly linked to not liking what SM did. Aside from this recent off season, what has Bruce done to actually inspire confidence??

Im not of fan of Allen nor a hater of him. I am just impressed what he did this offseason. I already stated how the blame could be on him if we don't have a good year. But like I said before odds are that he will come up smelling like a rose after this season.

 

[Sharkinva]

Im not of fan of Allen nor a hater of him. I am just impressed what he did this offseason. I already stated how the blame could be on him if we don't have a good year. But like I said before odds are that he will come up smelling like a rose after this season.

The problem Dean is, you were right on the band wagon of Bruce from the second Scot was fired. You have had a bias against Scot from the moment he didnt select Williams. So yes I do think you are giving Bruce more credit than his due because you did not like the previous guy. As i have stated, noting Bruce has done up to this point should have inspired the confidence you and a few others have shown in him at the beginning of this off season aside from the fact that you were mad at Scot for not taking Williams and possibly a few other roster moves.