Head Coach Possibilities, Discussion

[MileHigh64]

I would say good chance Vance Joseph would keep Wade though. Worked under him in Houston and actually credits him with being one of his biggest mentors. Kubiak fits in that category as well.

Something to keep in mind is that Elway talked a lot about the next coach needing to be a great communicator and person who can work with a lot of different personalities among the players/coaches/FO. In the past this is an area that Kyle Shanahan has struggled a lot. I would recommend reading up on his relationaship with Donovan McNabb and RGIII.

He also was thought to have hired a staff around himself in Washington that lacked much experience and had no checks and balances to really help balance him out.

Yeah, Joseph is reported to be a great communicator and a player's coach. Not sure about Shanahan. Also, whether Wade Phillips stays will come down to what the new HC/Elway want AND what Wade wants. Although he has said he would like to continue to coach the Broncos defense, that could change depending who they bring in or during his off season contemplation as to what he wants in life right now.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Nobody is going to convince Cd that " his boy " Lynch is Denver's savior. He needs that.

You can't tell me you like everything you have seen from Siemian. CD has made some points I concur with. I worry about Siemian lasting an entire season and he has struggled with seeing the open man. He has been asked to bulk up a little to take some of those hits.

And if I see him throw one more time to a covered receiver 5 yards short of the first I will likely break my TV.

 

[cdumler7]

You can't tell me you like everything you have seen from Siemian. CD has made some points I concur with. I worry about Siemian lasting an entire season and he has struggled with seeing the open man. He has been asked to bulk up a little to take some of those hits.

And if I see him throw one more time to a covered receiver 5 yards short of the first I will likely break my TV.

You can't convince Randymon that "his boy" is not Denver's savior. He needs that.

 

[MileHigh64]

Looks like Siemian is having minor surgery to repair that non-throwing shoulder. Reported on NFL.com He says it only bothers him when he works out and that it has felt pretty good the last few weeks.

 

[SpringStein]

If you can't see Kyle Shanahan coming - you need new glasses. I would be very surprised if it didn't happen.

sure hope you are wrong.

 

[Broncos6482]

Everything that I hear in the local news (radio & TV) says that it's a two horse race between Kyle Shanahan and Vance Joseph. Of course that could change in an instant with Elway pulling the levers. The playoffs will slow the interview process down but it sounds like Elway wants to get his man ASAP.

If that's the case, I really hope it's Shanahan. I'm not that impressed with Miami's 18th ranked defense.

 

[Mingo]

I would say good chance Vance Joseph would keep Wade though. Worked under him in Houston and actually credits him with being one of his biggest mentors. Kubiak fits in that category as well.

Something to keep in mind is that Elway talked a lot about the next coach needing to be a great communicator and person who can work with a lot of different personalities among the players/coaches/FO. In the past this is an area that Kyle Shanahan has struggled a lot. I would recommend reading up on his relationaship with Donovan McNabb and RGIII.

He also was thought to have hired a staff around himself in Washington that lacked much experience and had no checks and balances to really help balance him out.

Kyle was under his Dad in Washington - a really bad situation - now that he has two years on his own and his own success - that speaks for itself on personal growth.

I may be wrong and frequently am wrong, but all the tea leaves point to Kyle Shanahan, IMO.

 

[Mingo]

sure hope you are wrong.

I'm interested in your thoughts on the subject of Kyle Shanahan

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

Shanahan 'very interested' in broncos HC gig according to Jason Cole

 

[randymon]

So please provide me with anything that I said was wrong on Siemian?

It has been proven he struggles to throw to the middle and right side of the field. This was true the entire season.
It is easy to see that he struggled to go through his progressions. He at times would throw into triple coverage because that was his first read instead of seeing Sanders running across the middle with nobody within 10 yards of him. Young QB's all struggle with this. Lynch struggled with this when he got his starts.
Injuries--Can you really refute that he has struggled with injuries throughout college and now the pros?

I never said he won't or can't start in this league. He has some tools that you really like.

I think he is a smart player. Has a good arm. When healthy is very accurate. Good locker room kid. Stays pretty cool under pressure.

He has plenty to work with and it wouldnt' surprise me if he won the starting job again next year for the Broncos. I just think his ceiling is lower than that of Lynch. Doesn't mean I don't like the kid. Can I not like 2 QB's at the same time?

I only read first sentence. You cannot justify ragging on basically a rookie operating without any semblance of a running game Cd. It's just pure poor observation on your part. Any Qb will struggle in his performance under those circumstances and from what I heard coming out of Denver they were very happy with what he showed considering what he was up against. Put a run game in front of him and if he then shows all those negatives that you unfairly criticized him with, then I will agree. As of now, your criticism and appraisal of Trevor is unwarranted or educated Sir.

 

[randymon]

I only read first sentence. You cannot justify ragging on basically a rookie operating without any semblance of a running game Cd. It's just pure poor observation on your part. Any Qb will struggle in his performance under those circumstances and from what I heard coming out of Denver they were very happy with what he showed considering what he was up against. Put a run game in front of him and if he then shows all those negatives that you unfairly criticized him with, then I will agree. As of now, your criticism and appraisal of Trevor is unwarranted or educated Sir.

PS. Let's not forget he played with a bad shldr half season as well and although it was non-throwing, if you that still doesn't affect performance, your misguided.

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

PS. Let's not forget he played with a bad shldr half season as well and although it was non-throwing, if you that still doesn't affect performance, your misguided.

ok just trolling... i think i'm carving myself in a rare and dangerous niche of "i don't think either guys is or will be a franchise qb". Granted, we still need to see more out of either to fully say that.

plz don't throw rocks at me

 

[Broncos6482]

I only read first sentence. You cannot justify ragging on basically a rookie operating without any semblance of a running game Cd. It's just pure poor observation on your part. Any Qb will struggle in his performance under those circumstances and from what I heard coming out of Denver they were very happy with what he showed considering what he was up against. Put a run game in front of him and if he then shows all those negatives that you unfairly criticized him with, then I will agree. As of now, your criticism and appraisal of Trevor is unwarranted or educated Sir.

This is hyperbolic and unwarranted IMO. CD didn't just blindly bash Siemian, he criticized certain aspects of his game based on his observation. And frankly, nothing he said was over the top or unfair or wrong. It was true.

There are things to like about Siemian's play. There are things that should give anyone pause. No one should be crowning him the Broncos franchise qb, just like no one should be completely writing him off. CD didn't do that. Frankly the fact that you reacted so negatively to completely fair criticisms of Siemian says a lot more about you than it does CD.

 

[CEH]

Elway passed on Gase. Can he afford to pass on maybe the next great young offensive HC.

 

[CEH]

Atlanta offense ran 9 plays last week and scored 3 TDs to start the game. Hell to the yeah.

 

[CEH]

I hope Detriot loses big and they clean house

Kyle Shanahan - HC
Jim Bob - OC
Wade - DC

 

[cdumler7]

I only read first sentence. You cannot justify ragging on basically a rookie operating without any semblance of a running game Cd. It's just pure poor observation on your part. Any Qb will struggle in his performance under those circumstances and from what I heard coming out of Denver they were very happy with what he showed considering what he was up against. Put a run game in front of him and if he then shows all those negatives that you unfairly criticized him with, then I will agree. As of now, your criticism and appraisal of Trevor is unwarranted or educated Sir.

Haha ok. Well since you didn't actually read my criticisms (since you only read the first sentence) not sure how you can criticize what I wrote. You don't even know what your are getting upset about.

I'm hoping you read past the first sentence this time. If you do maybe you should go back and read the positives that I wrote about Siemian as well that he showed this year. Also the part where I said it wouldn't shock me if he was the starter again next year for us. Or the part that I said he has shown some promise and can grow from this year. I guess the positives just get overlooked by the smallest of criticisms towards anybody you support.

And no he is not above being criticized. You criticize the OL all the time...But if we go by your rules of what is and is not allowed then because they had terrible RB's running behind them and QB's that struggled with going too deep in their drop backs they cannot be criticized. See how this works? We can point to other things being what caused the problems if we really want to. Siemian and Lynch were both part of the problem on offense. They were not the biggest problem in my opinion but they were still part of the reason the offense struggled.

Also plenty of QB's in the NFL have done just fine with a struggling OL and no run game.

 

[58crash]

Simms says a lot of things so not sure how much I'm going to pay attention to him.

And if you think depth of Siemian’s drop backs was the only problem then well you missed some things that he struggled with…


1) He struggled with throws to the right. He had one of the lowest QB ratings in the league on passes to the right side of the field. He also struggled with throwing over the middle. Honestly he just refused to do it. He stuck with his comfort zone of the left side and defenses adjusted taking a lot of that away. It is why teams just sat on those quick outs to the left side and had a few of those picked off.


2) He struggled to get through his progressions. Just go watch how often Sanders is open. Siemian a lot of times made up his mind where he was throwing the football before the ball was snapped. Which is fine if you are Peyton Manning and actually see the guy who is going to be open but with Siemian again he stuck with his comfort zone or the first read. Missed some huge plays down the field that had nothing to do with protection in front of him.


3) Injuries. He doesn’t know how to ta. .ke a hit. From what I have heard today he is having surgery on his shoulder. One injury I’m willing to discount it to bad luck but this is becoming a consistent issue. I just don’t think he has the body to hold up in the NFL.


All of this doesn’t mean that he can’t improve or won’t be a starter in this league again next year. There is just plenty of reason that when asked around the league what the value of Siemian would be in a trade many NFL personnel have responded with he is untradeable. He is viewed in the quality back up/lower end starter area of the league.

I will agree to totally disagree . He was not the problem .

 

[cdumler7]

I will agree to totally disagree . He was not the problem .

I would probably word this "he was not the biggest problem." To say he wasn't at least part of it would be dismissing many of the things that went wrong with this offense. I can promise you Emmanuel Sanders would say if he was speaking honestly that Siemian and Lynch both missed him wide open on quite a few occasions. That had nothing to do with the OL struggling or there being no run game. That was him not working through his progressions or maybe worse not reading the defense right to know when Sanders has a one-on-one opportunity.

 

[randymon]

This is hyperbolic and unwarranted IMO. CD didn't just blindly bash Siemian, he criticized certain aspects of his game based on his observation. And frankly, nothing he said was over the top or unfair or wrong. It was true.

There are things to like about Siemian's play. There are things that should give anyone pause. No one should be crowning him the Broncos franchise qb, just like no one should be completely writing him off. CD didn't do that. Frankly the fact that you reacted so negatively to completely fair criticisms of Siemian says a lot more about you than it does CD.

Why don't you knuckleheads get it ? I'm certainly not crowning him anything. I'm saying it's unfair evaluation on his performance based on.....basically a rookie and no run game. I am not going to come out all high and mighty and criticise any Qb that had to deal with the obstacles he was dealt with and still have Denver in contention till last two weeks. When the criticism on Trevor comes from sources that actually have experience and knowledge of that position and what it takes to play it, then I'll listen . Untill that happens, I will continue to support him until HE shows me he can't be a good qb in Denver with a good run game.