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Harbaugh pulls commit's offer two weeks before signing day

7Samurai13

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hmmm. What are the risks?

Prospect:
1. His major interests are filled and he has to go to an inferior school. How much is that worth over a lifetime?
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor School Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale
2. Settles for his 2nd or 3rd school.

School:
1. Zero in this case.
2. Decommitt on signing day. Well they get a slightly worse kid or have an extra scholarship available in 2017.

I just dont see the risks remotely equal.
If he's lucky it's second or third choice. Who knows if their other options filled up their allotment for that position. Of course they could just pull someone else's scholarship and we can pretend like he doesn't matter like Michigan fans want.
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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hmmm. What are the risks?

Prospect:
1. His major interests are filled and he has to go to an inferior school. How much is that worth over a lifetime?
University of Michigan - Ann Arbor School Salary, Average Salaries | PayScale
2. Settles for his 2nd or 3rd school.

School:
1. Zero in this case.
2. Decommitt on signing day. Well they get a slightly worse kid or have an extra scholarship available in 2017.

I just dont see the risks remotely equal.

The 100+ kids who get scholarship offers are not entitled to a scholarship at that point. The kids who sign on national signing day are.

A kid like Swenson has offers at Northwestern, Notre Dame and Ohio State. If he chose to, he could go to an even better academic program than Michigan in Northwestern. Weaver has offers to play for Dartmouth, Cornell and Columbia. Again, if it's a great academic degree he wants -- he can have it. Even if Michigan was the one school that offered them, they're not entitled to the scholarship. And as we saw in Weaver's case, he was even offered a walk-on spot. So he could have gone to Michigan if he chose to he just would have had to get some student loans out like the rest of us. I really wish Michigan would have given me a football scholarship, but I'm not that good at football. That's just how it works sometimes. It might be disappointing to these kids, but they have plenty of other options and can still play football this year.
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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If he's lucky it's second or third choice. Who knows if their other options filled up their allotment for that position. Of course they could just pull someone else's scholarship and we can pretend like he doesn't matter like Michigan fans want.
Or he could just accept a walk-on spot at Michigan and pay for their education if getting one at a particular school while also playing football is that important to them. Maybe he'll be lucky and even earn a scholarship down the line. Very few programs are totally full at this point.
 

Codaxx

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The 100+ kids who get scholarship offers are not entitled to a scholarship at that point. The kids who sign on national signing day are.

A kid like Swenson has offers at Northwestern, Notre Dame and Ohio State. If he chose to, he could go to an even better academic program than Michigan in Northwestern. Weaver has offers to play for Dartmouth, Cornell and Columbia. Again, if it's a great academic degree he wants -- he can have it. Even if Michigan was the one school that offered them, they're not entitled to the scholarship. And as we saw in Weaver's case, he was even offered a walk-on spot. So he could have gone to Michigan if he chose to he just would have had to get some student loans out like the rest of us. I really wish Michigan would have given me a football scholarship, but I'm not that good at football. That's just how it works sometimes. It might be disappointing to these kids, but they have plenty of other options and can still play football this year.

THis makes 0 sense. Michigan OFFERED and that offered was ACCEPTED. Why do you keep missing that portion of the situation. Ivy schools do not give scholarships, so I have no idea what you are talking about
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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THis makes 0 sense. Michigan OFFERED and that offered was ACCEPTED. Why do you keep missing that portion of the situation. Ivy schools do not give scholarships, so I have no idea what you are talking about
And then that offer was pulled before signing day -- something your own school has likely done countless times. It's a common practice and Harbaugh isn't the first Michigan coach to do it. Hoke did it, RR did it and Carr did it (and I'm sure all before him have done it in the 85 scholarship limit era). I don't understand why it's as big of a deal as it is now. Michigan offered more than 100 recruits over the past year, if they all committed off those offers we would be pulling hundreds of offers and picking the best kids. Nothing is different in this case, it's just a smaller scale. The only think I'd critique Harbaugh, or any coach, on is that these kids should know their place well in advance of signing day; even if it's "we'll take you if we don't get signals that we can land better prospects".
 

7Samurai13

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The 100+ kids who get scholarship offers are not entitled to a scholarship at that point. The kids who sign on national signing day are.

A kid like Swenson has offers at Northwestern, Notre Dame and Ohio State. If he chose to, he could go to an even better academic program than Michigan in Northwestern. Weaver has offers to play for Dartmouth, Cornell and Columbia. Again, if it's a great academic degree he wants -- he can have it. Even if Michigan was the one school that offered them, they're not entitled to the scholarship. And as we saw in Weaver's case, he was even offered a walk-on spot. So he could have gone to Michigan if he chose to he just would have had to get some student loans out like the rest of us. I really wish Michigan would have given me a football scholarship, but I'm not that good at football. That's just how it works sometimes. It might be disappointing to these kids, but they have plenty of other options and can still play football this year.
Wow, did you just compare yourself to an all American high school player?
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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Wow, did you just compare yourself to an all American high school player?

Yes, in the sense that the coaching staff reevaluating him before signing day and deemed not good enough at football to be apart of the class.
 

7Samurai13

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Yes, in the sense that the coaching staff reevaluating him before signing day and deemed not good enough at football to be apart of the class.
But he was good enough for this class four weeks ago. How nice of you to use him as a bookmark.
 

Codaxx

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Yes, in the sense that the coaching staff reevaluating him before signing day and deemed not good enough at football to be apart of the class.

Clearly, this is going nowhere. You and I just do not share the same morals.
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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Clearly, this is going nowhere. You and I just do not share the same morals.
As mentioned, I have no problem with doing that -- but it should have been done sooner and communicated to the recruit (which is what I have a problem with).
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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But he was good enough for this class four weeks ago. How nice of you to use him as a bookmark.
Which is what I have a problem with. They should have been very clear about their intentions. But the underlying practice I have no issues with so long as it's done openly with recruits.
 

7Samurai13

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Which is what I have a problem with. They should have been very clear about their intentions. But the underlying practice I have no issues with so long as it's done openly with recruits.
As long as it's Michigan doing it.
 

Across The Field

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Nothing is confirmed. Nothing is signed. They have informal, verbal, commitments. That's why signing day is in Feb and not July. These kids signing in Feb. have 5 months until they report to school, plenty of time to alter any plans. It's not like they're reporting Feb. 4th. I don't think any coach should keep a be bound to keep a scholarship offer just because they don't want to disappoint a kid prior to signing day. I want my coach to try and get the best players possible to sign. If that means pulling scholarships to kids you think didn't work hard enough their senior year, so be it. They'll just have to go to one of the other Div 1 schools offering them. It's not like Michigan was their only offer and now they're out on the street. I do have a problem doing it this close to signing day, but my issue with it is not as big as my issue with over signing and cutting players once signed. That has a dramatic impact on their playing career.
And so you are supporting a coach making a decision like this? He's shady and this is a very scummy thing to do to a young man that had made the biggest decision in his life. These kids aren't commodities, and no matter how much you try and rationalize things, what Harbaugh is doing is disrespectful and despicable.

As I said, wait until it's your son. I love how you just glossed over that aspect of it. Then again, maybe your son will just be a commodity to you, too.
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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As long as it's Michigan doing it.
You'll never find me complaining about any other school removing a scholarship offer prior to NSD.
 

MAIZEandBLUE09

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And so you are supporting a coach making a decision like this? He's shady and this is a very scummy thing to do to a young man that had made the biggest decision in his life. These kids aren't commodities, and no matter how much you try and rationalize things, what Harbaugh is doing is disrespectful and despicable.

As I said, wait until it's your son. I love how you just glossed over that aspect of it. Then again, maybe your son will just be a commodity to you, too.
As I said, I don't like that he didn't communicate it with the recruits in a timely fashion. I have no problem with the idea of pulling an offer.
 

7Samurai13

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You'll never find me complaining about any other school removing a scholarship offer prior to NSD.
The problem is over signing a class and then kicking kids out of the class or off the team to make room. If you're, say, aware of a current injury in February and sign a kid to fill that spot -- that's not over-signing. That's just preparing for the inevitable. Again, attrition is fine. But attrition due to signing a too big class and then scrambling to make room is wrong. You're never going to go a year and keep everyone on the team, it just doesn't happen.

No, still wrong given you kept that kid from looking at other schools to attend to make sure you could fill the class and once not needed, you cut him loose. But unless Michigan randomly cuts a bunch of kids a few weeks before signing day for dumb reasons -- that's not what is happening here.

Except you don't seem to understand pretty much the basic qualifying factor of over signing -- that you're doing all of that at, around or after signing day AND you're purposefully signing or accepting commitments of more kids than you expect to have room for, worrying about finding space later. Filling spots that you think you'll have open 8 months before signing day is not over signing by any definition of the word. It's preparing for the spots you think you'll have open.

Wait, what?
 

Across The Field

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As I said, I don't like that he didn't communicate it with the recruits in a timely fashion. I have no problem with the idea of pulling an offer.
In mid-late January?? You're not that shitty of a person.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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THis makes 0 sense. Michigan OFFERED and that offered was ACCEPTED. Why do you keep missing that portion of the situation. Ivy schools do not give scholarships, so I have no idea what you are talking about
Codaxx. Who is Matthew Merrick? I know with all the preaching you have done, the university of Texas must not stoop to grey shirts to over sign when they run out of scholarships on a class.
 

Across The Field

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Codaxx. Who is Matthew Merrick? I know with all the preaching you have done, the university of Texas must not stoop to grey shirts to over sign when they run out of scholarships on a class.
Oh my god, are you seriously this fucking retarded?? Merrick was offered a grey shirt opportunity in NOVEMBER, a whole 4 months before national signing day, and he eagerly accepted.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Oh my god, are you seriously this fucking retarded?? Merrick was offered a grey shirt opportunity in NOVEMBER, a whole 4 months before national signing day, and he eagerly accepted.
Classy language. I hope u r blessed with a mentally challenged child. :L
That being said. Here is a Texas website talking about possibly having an opening on signing day before taking the grey shirt. Which is nothing more than a loophole to sign more than the allotted amount by the NCAA.

Are u saying if Harbaugh grey shirted Swenson. You'd be fine with that?
 
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