Game #3 New England Patriots vs New York Jets Sunday 9/24/2023 1:00 PM EST CBS

[YankeeRebel]

I heard a comment today that I cannot disagree with.

"Bill Belichick does not value offense equal to his value of defense."

Okay, we have known this for how many years now? This is not news. Very few teams put the same value on defense and offense there is normally a lean toward one side.

 

[BigKen]

Okay, we have known this for how many years now? This is not news. Very few teams put the same value on defense and offense there is normally a lean toward one side.

I think, not 100% sure, that the comment was made referring to the fact that BB, we in the Hoop, Boston media, and every other Patriots' fan knew back in Februarey thet there were two very glaring weaknesses in the Patriots' offense. OT and WR. He made zero effort to address those in FA and waited until late in the draft to do anything.

As a result, they are still dealing with glaring weakness on the OL and lack of speed and separation at WR.

We keep saying or hearing that they are rebuilding. From what? The guy that you said is gone and no one can refer to him? Losing a single player shouldn't require a complete offensive rebuild that takes five years. Depending on who leaves after this year, If BB decides to pick up the 5th year option on Mac, and few other things, BB could have as much as $128M - $142M in cap space. What scares the hell out every Patriots' fan is that he will immediately look to shore up any defensive position first and not give a second thought to the offense until what's available has already been picked through twice on that side. That has been his mantra for 23 years and it's hard to change after so long.

 

[nefansince75]

Well that's a simplified way of looking at it, sure. But what made Brady the GOAT? What the hell magic formula did that guy have access to? I think we all agree that there are other QB's that had/have a way better arm than Brady. Some have a more accurate arm. WTH was it about Brady that made the team fight harder for a victory that other QB's can't seem to harness? Because really, at least in my opinion, at this point this current team is similar to most of the Pats teams Brady played on yet the one difference, Brady, seems to be all the difference in the world as far as obtaining victories.

For starters he led the team in a specific direction and didn't just scream "let's go". He led by example focusing on the fundamentals in his own game.

But the real reason is he managed to slow the game down to his speed and make better strategic decisions. He accomplished this several ways but most importantly - he didn't actually slow the game down but was so well prepared he instantly recognized what the opposition was doing. He has a drawer in his dresser where he keeps his trophies, all consisting of jock straps from guys like Troy M, Brian U and that guy from Tennessee he toasted in the playoffs with that fake screen to David Givens.

 

[YankeeRebel]

I think, not 100% sure, that the comment was made referring to the fact that BB, we in the Hoop, Boston media, and every other Patriots' fan knew back in Februarey thet there were two very glaring weaknesses in the Patriots' offense. OT and WR. He made zero effort to address those in FA and waited until late in the draft to do anything.

As a result, they are still dealing with glaring weakness on the OL and lack of speed and separation at WR.

We keep saying or hearing that they are rebuilding. From what? The guy that you said is gone and no one can refer to him? Losing a single player shouldn't require a complete offensive rebuild that takes five years. Depending on who leaves after this year, If BB decides to pick up the 5th year option on Mac, and few other things, BB could have as much as $128M - $142M in cap space. What scares the hell out every Patriots' fan is that he will immediately look to shore up any defensive position first and not give a second thought to the offense until what's available has already been picked through twice on that side. That has been his mantra for 23 years and it's hard to change after so long.

He did address WR or receiving corps with Schuster and Gisicki as well as drafting two WRs. And took what 3 O Linemen in the draft. I feel it's more accurate to say BB didn't draft who you, the media or any other person wanted. But guess what none of us or them put the homework in the BB and his staff does. It's easy for people to pick apart what he does or doesn't do. And after a whopping two games this is an issue?????

Boutte and Douglas guys drafted were sure getting separation.

We are rebuilding, we just could not rebuild on the fly this time because we did not have cap space or Brady. As long as posters and the media keep living in the past this will be an issue. Posters and the media still feel like we are supposed to be dominant every year, they got spoiled and are now acting like spoiled children. Didn't someone post the Pats cap space for next year, I think it showed us at number one. Posters here and the media would love to have him bust that nut on the top FA WR just to give them the warm fuzzies. That's what the Cowboy's did for years and why for the past two decades they have had marginal success. Building a team requires quality depth.

TB12 is no longer here and that limits how you can build or rebuild, people need to wake up that.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

But what made Brady the GOAT? What the hell magic formula did that guy have access to?

The desire to ALWAYS get better. No matter what he attained, he wanted to do it better.
14-2 season? 16-0 is the goal every year.
5 INT's? 0 is the goal every year.
Brady wanted to be mistake free. FREE, not limit mistakes, mistake free. And by holding himself to that standard and not letting himself off the hook allowed him to also hold his team mates to a higher standard.
He was drafted 199 for a reason. He was a part time starter at Michigan for a reason.



But, he had a MUCH better deep ball than Mac.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Of course he did and rode his coattails. Brady took over Bill's 5-13 team and won a SB and 2 more , next 3 seasons. BB w/ Brady .775 coach with 30 playoff wins 9 Sb's. BB w/o BB for 10 seasons .470 coach with 1 playoff win. And Mac is not the problem, him and Mahomes have comparable no#s first 2 games. Kid had a real good rookie season, then Bill's bff that ruined 2 NFL teams as HC, did the same with Mac as OC's last season

Mahomes would not have thrown that uncatchable ball to Parker who was never open.

Did Bill tell Mac to throw a blatant bad decision INT there?

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I think, not 100% sure, that the comment was made referring to the fact that BB, we in the Hoop, Boston media, and every other Patriots' fan knew back in Februarey thet there were two very glaring weaknesses in the Patriots' offense. OT and WR. He made zero effort to address those in FA and waited until late in the draft to do anything.

As a result, they are still dealing with glaring weakness on the OL and lack of speed and separation at WR.

We keep saying or hearing that they are rebuilding. From what? The guy that you said is gone and no one can refer to him? Losing a single player shouldn't require a complete offensive rebuild that takes five years. Depending on who leaves after this year, If BB decides to pick up the 5th year option on Mac, and few other things, BB could have as much as $128M - $142M in cap space. What scares the hell out every Patriots' fan is that he will immediately look to shore up any defensive position first and not give a second thought to the offense until what's available has already been picked through twice on that side. That has been his mantra for 23 years and it's hard to change after so long.

You are not wrong.

But by the same token, if he had gone OT would the D be letting up more points and the team still lose?
A top WR? Same story.

I am curious what will happen with next years $115 mil in cap space.
If he cheaps out on Oline and brings in another Agholor type WR 2 months after FA period ends...I may be calling for his head as well.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

He did address WR or receiving corps with Schuster and Gisicki as well as drafting two WRs. And took what 3 O Linemen in the draft. I feel it's more accurate to say BB didn't draft who you, the media or any other person wanted. But guess what none of us or them put the homework in the BB and his staff does. It's easy for people to pick apart what he does or doesn't do. And after a whopping two games this is an issue?????

Boutte and Douglas guys drafted were sure getting separation.

We are rebuilding, we just could not rebuild on the fly this time because we did not have cap space or Brady. As long as posters and the media keep living in the past this will be an issue. Posters and the media still feel like we are supposed to be dominant every year, they got spoiled and are now acting like spoiled children. Didn't someone post the Pats cap space for next year, I think it showed us at number one. Posters here and the media would love to have him bust that nut on the top FA WR just to give them the warm fuzzies. That's what the Cowboy's did for years and why for the past two decades they have had marginal success. Building a team requires quality depth.

TB12 is no longer here and that limits how you can build or rebuild, people need to wake up that.

we just could not rebuild on the fly this time because we did not have cap space

This...

 

[BigKen]

He did address WR or receiving corps with Schuster and Gisicki as well as drafting two WRs.

And exactly what have these four provided in the first two games?

New England Patriots 2023 NFL Regular Season Players Stats - ESPN

Full player stats for the 2023 Regular Season New England Patriots on ESPN. Includes team leaders in passing, rushing, tackles and interceptions.

www.espn.com

We are rebuilding, we just could not rebuild on the fly this time because we did not have cap space or Brady. As long as posters and the media keep living in the past this will be an issue. Posters and the media still feel like we are supposed to be dominant every year, they got spoiled and are now acting like spoiled children. Didn't someone post the Pats cap space for next year, I think it showed us at number one. Posters here and the media would love to have him bust that nut on the top FA WR just to give them the warm fuzzies. That's what the Cowboy's did for years and why for the past two decades they have had marginal success. Building a team requires quality depth.

How long do you give him to rebuild the offense? He's been at it since 2019 and still hasn't addressed the same problems the team had back then. Especially at WR.

I know you love the guy, but facts are facts. With TB12 he had 9 AFCCG wins, 6 SB wins. In his career w/o TB12, he's .490 and 2 playoff losses. Since Brady left, he's 25-27 with one playoff loss. I'm sorry, but he's not rebuilding. He's hole plugging. That's because that's what he's been able to do with the GOAT at QB.

With Uche, Jennings, Duggar, Henry and Gesicki all headed to free agency and monster contracts, I'm willing to bet my left nut that he'll go defense, defense, defense in FA and we'll be screaming like wounded rabbits at this time in 2024.

For some reason, Bill either won't sign players early or doesn't know how. "Hey Duggar, have a seat. How about extending your contract to 2026? I'll guarantee you 3 years, $45M and I'll give you $15M of it as a Bonus today."

 

[cheerupcharlie]

Mahomes would not have thrown that uncatchable ball to Parker who was never open.

Did Bill tell Mac to throw a blatant bad decision INT there?

Without a doubt it was a bad throw. But Parker was roughed up by the defender the whole time that ball was in the air

Reddit - Dive into anything

reddit.com

 

[BigKen]

Without a doubt it was a bad throw. But Parker was roughed up by the defender the whole time that ball was in the air

You make a valid argument, but the Patriots are not going to get those calls. They'll get the real obvious ones, but not the "let them play". Do the same thing to Hill or Waddle and there will be six yellow flags on the field. Or AJ Brown. Or Justin Jefferson. Or Stefon Diggs.

Am I wrong??

 

[YankeeRebel]

And exactly what have these four provided in the first two games?

New England Patriots 2023 NFL Regular Season Players Stats - ESPN

Full player stats for the 2023 Regular Season New England Patriots on ESPN. Includes team leaders in passing, rushing, tackles and interceptions.

www.espn.com

How long do you give him to rebuild the offense? He's been at it since 2019 and still hasn't addressed the same problems the team had back then. Especially at WR.

I know you love the guy, but facts are facts. With TB12 he had 9 AFCCG wins, 6 SB wins. In his career w/o TB12, he's .490 and 2 playoff losses. Since Brady left, he's 25-27 with one playoff loss. I'm sorry, but he's not rebuilding. He's hole plugging. That's because that's what he's been able to do with the GOAT at QB.

With Uche, Jennings, Duggar, Henry and Gesicki all headed to free agency and monster contracts, I'm willing to bet my left nut that he'll go defense, defense, defense in FA and we'll be screaming like wounded rabbits at this time in 2024.

For some reason, Bill either won't sign players early or doesn't know how. "Hey Duggar, have a seat. How about extending your contract to 2026? I'll guarantee you 3 years, $45M and I'll give you $15M of it as a Bonus today."

He has addressed WR why are you ignoring that? I don't love anybody other than my wife and son, but I am not spinning tales and telling lies like you are. He has addressed WRs, we never had top tier WRs in NE we had TB12 WRS did not make Brady better he made them better. Other than Randy Moss when have the Pats targeted a big name WR? And how many SBs did we win with Moss?

 

[sharkymcwrath]

Fucke Brady he is not here so the question holds zero value

So you’re not interested in identifying the reason why this team cannot finish a comeback? They simply can’t. Two weeks in a row the offense folded like a lawn chair when victory was there to be had. And that’s not even addressing the countless times that happened last season.

So you’re perfectly fine saying Mac is the franchise QB even if we go 0 and 17. Got it.

 

[YankeeRebel]

So you’re not interested in identifying the reason why this team cannot finish a comeback? They simply can’t. Two weeks in a row the offense folded like a lawn chair when victory was there to be had. And that’s not even addressing the countless times that happened last season.

So you’re perfectly fine saying Mac is the franchise QB even if we go 0 and 17. Got it.

Im perfectly fine saying Fuck Brady and stop living in the past. That era of Patriots football is done, so bringing him into any conversation about today's team make zero sense and hold no value.

As to Mac he is our best option at this time, and everyone was pretty high and mighty with the pick out of college and his rookie year. We are two game in against two top tier teams, there is no need to light the pyre quite yet.

 

[Southieinnc]

For some reason, Bill either won't sign players early or doesn't know how. "Hey Duggar, have a seat. How about extending your contract to 2026? I'll guarantee you 3 years, $45M and I'll give you $15M of it as a Bonus today."

And Duggar calls his agent and they begin a dialogue.
Duggar spends the next 3 weeks thinking about his contract and not prepping for the games!

 

[sharkymcwrath]

Im perfectly fine saying Fuck Brady and stop living in the past. That era of Patriots football is done, so bringing him into any conversation about today's team make zero sense and hold no value.

As to Mac he is our best option at this time, and everyone was pretty high and mighty with the pick out of college and his rookie year. We are two game in against two top tier teams, there is no need to light the pyre quite yet.

Sorry. I should have used a different QB as an example as it's obvious a few of you can't have a decent conversation that includes Brady without getting pissy.

Back to my original point. IMO, if Mahomes, Hurts, Burrow, Tagovailoa, Purdy, and a few others were our QB we'd be 2 - 0 instead of 0 - 2. Yes, Mac has played decent but as we all repeatedly said last season he doesn't have the killer competitive instinct and that trickles down to the rest of the team.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

Oh Lord are we starting this? Mac has not been that bad...

mac was not that bad sunday night,but the pats defense looked awful letting muster run all over the place.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Sorry. I should have used a different QB as an example as it's obvious a few of you can't have a decent conversation that includes Brady without getting pissy.

Back to my original point. IMO, if Mahomes, Hurts, Burrow, Tagovailoa, Purdy, and a few others were our QB we'd be 2 - 0 instead of 0 - 2. Yes, Mac has played decent but as we all repeatedly said last season he doesn't have the killer competitive instinct and that trickles down to the rest of the team.

Well the point is no sense in talking about Brady.

As to the other QB, I am sure if we had Hill, and Waddle Mac might be 2-0. Mahomes is a special talent but remember he lost week one withour Kelce. Burrow has sucked this year to date, Hurts has a very talented team around him.

Point is you can't say plugging a QB in will make all the difference. We are two games into Macs third year with his third OC. Each team builds an offense based on the team strengths and weaknesses. So our system of BOBs system may not work for other QBs, and you have to look at other key players on the team, who team played etc.

Right now we have Mac, he is our best option, he won the job and he was played pretty well. But again it's week two with a new OC can we give it time and stop imagining what could be?

 

[YankeeRebel]

mac was not that bad sunday night,but the pats defense looked awful letting muster run all over the place.

Mac was not that bad. BB decided to take away Hill and Waddle assuming we could at least slow the run and you are correct our front 7 failed to do that

 

[redskinsfan1963]

Mac was not that bad. BB decided to take away Hill and Waddle assuming we could at least slow the run and you are correct our front 7 failed to do that

muster looked like the2nd coming of csonka runniing thru the pats line.