Franklin?

[Codaxx]

Can someone in the SEC sell me on Franklin? I think he has done a great job at Vandy. There is no doubt he has elevated the program. I see an excellent recruiter and a great motivator. Does he bring anything schematically? Former OC that runs some pretty ugly offenses out there. When I think of Vandy, I think more about the defense than the offense. Is he the illegitimate love child of Mack Brown and Les Miles or is there something more there? Wondering what the SEC fans think.

 

[cane_man]

Thinking is not an sec fans strength. Get ready for lots of espn and wiki quotes

 

[Bandwagonbo2]

While apparently "thinking is not a strong suit" of an SEC fan, I will offer an opinion.

I think Franklin could be a good choice. He does seem to have some good defenses at Vandy and his offenses seem to be all over the place. Being he is an ex OC, this could spell trouble except its my feelings that its harder to get Offensive players that are good and have the grades to get into a Vandy style school. This leaves him with picking middle to bottom of the barrel skill type players for his key offensive positions and why his offense seems to be disjointed at times.

Its not as hard to find bodies on the defensive side of the ball that can block and stop the run. Notice he does have some decent(not great) defenses and can usually keep them in the games for a while with his defenses. I think he can recruit well and its known he is tireless(like Saban) in his efforts to lure a Recruit or keep his players motivated. He is also very well respected among his peers, which helps with getting top assistants and coordinators. Given a chance at Texas, i feel he would do a very good job and could be a long term answer to your problems.

 

[Codaxx]

While apparently "thinking is not a strong suit" of an SEC fan, I will offer an opinion.

I think Franklin could be a good choice. He does seem to have some good defenses at Vandy and his offenses seem to be all over the place. Being he is an ex OC, this could spell trouble except its my feelings that its harder to get Offensive players that are good and have the grades to get into a Vandy style school. This leaves him with picking middle to bottom of the barrel skill type players for his key offensive positions and why his offense seems to be disjointed at times.

Its not as hard to find bodies on the defensive side of the ball that can block and stop the run. Notice he does have some decent(not great) defenses and can usually keep them in the games for a while with his defenses. I think he can recruit well and its known he is tireless(like Saban) in his efforts to lure a Recruit or keep his players motivated. He is also very well respected among his peers, which helps with getting top assistants and coordinators. Given a chance at Texas, i feel he would do a very good job and could be a long term answer to your problems.

This is my concern though. I would argue it is easier to scheme success on offense than on defense. The big knock on Mack is that he lacked a scheme or philosophy. Great at the program stuff, but lacking in the Xs and Os department. Texas success was basically a 3 part equation, talent + OC (ability)+ DC (ability). That is a scary formula, because is it is so reliant on hiring good people. Where a guy like Malzahn or Saban you really are not worried about a OC or DC leaving.

 

[Tharvot]

This is my concern though. I would argue it is easier to scheme success on offense than on defense. The big knock on Mack is that he lacked a scheme or philosophy. Great at the program stuff, but lacking in the Xs and Os department. Texas success was basically a 3 part equation, talent + OC (ability)+ DC (ability). That is a scary formula, because is it is so reliant on hiring good people. Where a guy like Malzahn or Saban you really are not worried about a OC or DC leaving.

Not really. The big knock on Mack was that he recruited well but his players failed to develop while at UT...well that and he missed badly on the last few big name QBs out of the state.

 

[Codaxx]

Not really. The big knock on Mack was that he recruited well but his players failed to develop while at UT...well that and he missed badly on the last few big name QBs out of the state.

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i think I am a bit more up on this one. Development was certainly an issue, but much of that can be attributed to a revolving door of schemes. Case McCoy was a senior this yr. This was the 3rd different offense he ran in his time at Texas. Its hard to develop a player when you are continually changing his goals.

 

[Tharvot]

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i think I am a bit more up on this one. Development was certainly an issue, but much of that can be attributed to a revolving door of schemes. Case McCoy was a senior this yr. This was the 3rd different offense he ran in his time at Texas. Its hard to develop a player when you are continually changing his goals.

That was because UT had terrible QBs after the first McCoy. They were desperately searching for a scheme that their offense could run with decent success.

 

[cane_man]

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i think I am a bit more up on this one. Development was certainly an issue, but much of that can be attributed to a revolving door of schemes. Case McCoy was a senior this yr. This was the 3rd different offense he ran in his time at Texas. Its hard to develop a player when you are continually changing his goals.

Well, he also passed on the last 2 heisman winners. Both willing to sign there, both rejected by mack, both won as freshmen (rs). Thats a helluva streak.

 

[Codaxx]

That was because UT had terrible QBs after the first McCoy. They were desperately searching for a scheme that their offense could run with decent success.

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Actually that is inaccurate. After Colt went down Mack decided he wanted a SEC offense. This was prior to teh season. He did not want to the teams success riding on a single QB. Davis attempted to run more. That failed and in came Harsin. HE actually made significant progress. HE left and Major wanted to run more uptempo spread offense focusing on running a fewer player and getting away from Harsin's packages. Hard to complain about QB development when the offensive plan is in continual flux.

 

[Codaxx]

Well, he also passed on the last 2 heisman winners. Both willing to sign there, both rejected by mack, both won as freshmen (rs). Thats a helluva streak.

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I dont buy the Winston line. He did pass on Manziel, but at the time Texas was attempting to transition to a pro-style offense. Not an offense that Manziel would excel at with any team. Recruiting misses happen all the time, especially at Qb. I fault him more for the changing philosophies and poor roster management, especially at QB

 

[Tharvot]

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Actually that is inaccurate. After Colt went down Mack decided he wanted a SEC offense. This was prior to teh season. He did not want to the teams success riding on a single QB. Davis attempted to run more. That failed and in came Harsin. HE actually made significant progress. HE left and Major wanted to run more uptempo spread offense focusing on running a fewer player and getting away from Harsin's packages. Hard to complain about QB development when the offensive plan is in continual flux.

Not inaccurate. After Colt, UT had the much ballyhooed Gilbert Grape at QB, who ended up being a miserable failure. The offense was much the same scheme as the year prior. Then, UT tried to change things up while also searching for an answer at QB.

The changing schemes wasn't really an issue. The program changed schemes quite a bit. The offenses that Simms and Applewhite ran were much different from what VY ran, which was different from what Colt ran. They updated their offensive scheme to fit their personnel...which is a good thing. Their problem recently was that their personnel (QB position) just sucked, so nothing really worked all that well.

 

[Red_Alert]

My thougnts on Franklin is he's good at putting the pieces together where everyone is on the same page and playing good fundamental/disciplined football. He does that with far less talent than he'd have at Texas.

My biggest problem with Bo Pelino is the sloppiness in which his teams play. Multiple turnovers, penalties, lack of execution, players out of position, and they don't handle success well. They win a couple weeks then don't come out ready to play in the first quarter.

It's mismanagement that you don't see in elite or even second tier teams.

I refer to it as the Neuheisal Factor. Give him all the talent in the world, but he can't put them together with any consistency. You either have that CEO qualily or you don't. In Pelino's case, 6 years is long enough to determine that he doesn't. He would not win at Vandy.

 

[HammerDown]

James Franklin would be a rockstar in Austin. He is the anti-Kiffin.

 

[Codaxx]

Not inaccurate. After Colt, UT had the much ballyhooed Gilbert Grape at QB, who ended up being a miserable failure. The offense was much the same scheme as the year prior. Then, UT tried to change things up while also searching for an answer at QB.

The changing schemes wasn't really an issue. The program changed schemes quite a bit. The offenses that Simms and Applewhite ran were much different from what VY ran, which was different from what Colt ran. They updated their offensive scheme to fit their personnel...which is a good thing. Their problem recently was that their personnel (QB position) just sucked, so nothing really worked all that well.

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Schemes are generally tweaked. Rarely do they turn a 180. We can just move on, because we are not goign to agree. Another factor ff youwant to understand the development and general offensive issues. I believe the last OL drafted by the NFL was Jonathan Scott in 2006. That is a major problem.

 

[cane_man]

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I dont buy the Winston line. He did pass on Manziel, but at the time Texas was attempting to transition to a pro-style offense. Not an offense that Manziel would excel at with any team. Recruiting misses happen all the time, especially at Qb. I fault him more for the changing philosophies and poor roster management, especially at QB

From an unbiased source FSU QB Jameis Winston Wanted To Be a Longhorn | Robert Littal Presents BlackSportsOnline

 

[Codaxx]

From an unbiased source FSU QB Jameis Winston Wanted To Be a Longhorn | Robert Littal Presents BlackSportsOnline

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heard that. I dont really buy it. Always he said she said BS in recruiting. Mack claims they called and were told no real interest. Truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Tharvot]

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Schemes are generally tweaked. Rarely do they turn a 180. We can just move on, because we are not goign to agree. Another factor ff youwant to understand the development and general offensive issues. I believe the last OL drafted by the NFL was Jonathan Scott in 2006. That is a major problem.

Yeah, I generally remember a lot of complaints about the OL down in Austin...not as much this year, but I definitely remember a lot of complaints the few years prior.

I don't think its any 1 thing to be honest. After a while, things can get stale with a program and coach. Sometimes its just time to move in a different direction.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Mack Brown developed players quite well.
That has never been an issue for the large majority of his career..

All the issues started in 2010 when Mack decided to radically shift the entire philosophy.
Mack foolishly got a burr up his ass to completely remake the program in 2010.

It was a silly "midlife crisis" moment that was entirely dumb in retrospect.
He used the goodwill of the 2001-2009 run to take that HUGE RISK.

They tried it in 2010 with bad personnel for the switch.
They recruited specifically for the new idea in 2011,2012 to overcome the personnel mismatches.
But with slower than expected returns, they abandoned it in 2013 and once again had bad personnel fits.

The end result was four years of confusion and chaos.
I wish someone had grabbed Mack in 2010 and told him to stick with what worked.
If FRANKLIN comes in, I hope he just stick with one plan and never waivers.

 

[starbigd]

Mack never had one SCHEME he ran. That's part of the core problem.

WHAT does Texas do well, on either side of the ball? What are Mack Brown teams known for doing? EXACTLY - you can't say anything outside of lose with talent.

There was never an identity outside of the one imposed on the team by individual players like VY and Colt. They WILLED those teams to wins, but you can't say Mack's coaching did.

If Mack doesn't have top flight assistants, he can't win.

Franklin isn't a bad coach, but I don't think he's the splash they're looking for at HC. IMO, NONE of the current "candidates" are guys that I think fit.

These are the names I've seen outside of Franklin:

Harbaugh - I think at some point he's Michigan bound
Miles - LMAO no chance in hell
Sweeney - not a fit
Strong - possible, not super excited over him
Mora - a guy that's really more of an NFL coach
Shaw - NOT leaving Stanford
Briles - NO....and probably headed to the NFL
Patterson - possible, but not a big splash hire
Tomlin - REALLY???

 

[Red_Alert]

Yeah, if I remember right Mack stopped trying to put a square peg into a round hole with VY and finally let him ad lib and do what he did best. That's when success came. That doesn't work with just anybody.