Fox Is in: Official OC/DC hiring thread

[noonthirtyjoe]

can you refresh my memory on when Pace, Fox, Fangio, and Gase worked together? Not clear on when that happened.

Also, just out of curiosity, who do you think our best player is?

Marshal. Who else is there?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I don't know. It was a serious question. Maybe Marshall, or Jeffery, or Kyle long. Yeah I guess I'd go with Marshall too.

 

[averagejoe]

I won't fault someone for getting hyped about the coaching staff, and Pace.

The Bears organization has a lot to prove IMO. It's one thing to be relevant for a year or two like we were under Lovie. But even in our best seasons under him, there were other NFL teams that were built better. (The Patriots, Colts, and Packers come to mind in the sense that they always seemed to be relevant during that era - and beyond.)

I'm hoping that 'building a better franchise' is what Pace and company is about to do. I didn't have this gut feeling with the Emery hire.

But lest we forget, when Trestman was hired, a few who worked with him personally (like Jim Harbaugh and Rich Gannon) had nothing but glowing praise for Tresty. While some may have similar thoughts about Fox and the staff, let's not put the plow before horse. Maybe we could put the plow next to the horse?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

But lest we forget, when Trestman was hired, a few who worked with him personally (like Jim Harbaugh and Rich Gannon) had nothing but glowing praise for Tresty. While some may have similar thoughts about Fox and the staff, let's not put the plow before horse. Maybe we could put the plow next to the horse?

Yes, this is true. And while I was not happy when he was hired, I thought he mostly did a decent job, and he is receiving way too much blame for the lack of offense this year. He designed plays that got guys open that his quarterback completely did not see or missed with too much frequency. That's not Trestman's fault. If the players quit on him after awhile, well, then yes he had to go, no doubt, but let's not pretend that the fundamental offensive problems were purely a function of coaching.

 

[NCChiFan]

Cubzzzfanincali, I get the level of pessimism you're showing to an extent. It is really hard to be optimistic when we were so much so with Trestman and we all see where that dumpster fire ended. Sheesh. I also agree that long term, in my book, as I see it, Fox isn't the answer. I said it in the other thread, high floor low ceiling guy who can right the ship but probably not take it all the way to the promised land. I watched Fox in Carolina, it wasn't pretty at the end.


But, I really am really excited about the Fangio hire, the Bears picked up arguably one of the best D coaches in the NFL. I'm still amazed over this hire. Couple him with Fox, toss in a decent coordinator on O, should be ok, if Pace doesn't screw up drafting and Free Agency, in fact this should be amazing.


I hope Fangio and company can take Fox over the top... Interesting to see if it is with Cutler or not.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Cubzzzfanincali, I get the level of pessimism you're showing to an extent. It is really hard to be optimistic when we were so much so with Trestman and we all see where that dumpster fire ended. Sheesh. I also agree that long term, in my book, as I see it, Fox isn't the answer. I said it in the other thread, high floor low ceiling guy who can right the ship but probably not take it all the way to the promised land. I watched Fox in Carolina, it wasn't pretty at the end.


But, I really am really excited about the Fangio hire, the Bears picked up arguably one of the best D coaches in the NFL. I'm still amazed over this hire. Couple him with Fox, toss in a decent coordinator on O, should be ok, if Pace doesn't screw up drafting and Free Agency, in fact this should be amazing.


I hope Fangio and company can take Fox over the top... Interesting to see if it is with Cutler or not.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I am not "down" on how this offseason has gone, and I don't think hiring a QB coach and a LB coach who don't impress me devalues the high quality of the other hires. I'm just not prematurely ejaculating either. We can't call a management/coaching group "the best in years" until they win some games. A lot of them. Hopefully they will. I doubt it will be into a Super Bowl, but if at a minimum they can start developing some good young talent, I'll be pleased with that.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Fox isn't the answer. I said it in the other thread, high floor low ceiling guy who can right the ship but probably not take it all the way to the promised land.
He has had 2 HC jobs and both jobs has lead to a SB. So saying he can't get us there is confusing to me.

 

[NCChiFan]

He has had 2 HC jobs and both jobs has lead to a SB. So saying he can't get us there is confusing to me.

Yea, I hear you. I have more respect for Coach Fox taking Carolina to the SB with Jake Delhomme, but I have a harder time saying his great coaching took Peyton Manning to the SB. Also, it wasn't long after the SB run in Carolina that the Panthers went 2-14, with the same coach. Um...

It hasn't all been roses with him. BUT, I do like the Fangio hire, this could end up being huge.

I'm conflicted, which is one reason why I say I understand the pessimism. To me, Coach Fox appears to be the perfect candidate for turning this team around. But, then there is the can't win a SB stuff, yea he got teams there, but couldn't win the big one, and when he wasn't going to the SB he had bad seasons, 8-8, 2-14 etc... Very Lovieesque.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

He has had 2 HC jobs and both jobs has lead to a SB. So saying he can't get us there is confusing to me.

Here's my take on this, for what it's worth. Fox "took" the team to the playoffs three years in a row, and for my money they were the most talent-laden of the lot in the last 2 of 3. First year, he pretty much coached them to a loss in the Ravens playoff game. That's not just my opinion, a lot of the folks in denver felt that way. The Super Bowl loss, well, that was pretty much an all-around Denver collapse, you can't pin that just on him, but certainly when your entire team blows the game so badly, some of that has to fall back on the coaching staff. This year, again, they did not have a particularly effective strategy for the playoff loss. Now, it isn't Fox's fault that Manning was completely (and uncharacteristically) inaccurate in that game. But, as one example, why they continued to focus on the long-range passing game is a question for somebody in Denver, even after it was clear Manning was off that game and that approach wasn't working.

Now, I don't entirely blame Fox for that...word has it that he was pretty much a delegating type of coach who handed a lot of the details off to his coordinators (and Manning of course). But at some point, the coach has to step in somewhere when things aren't going right and change course.

Now that we have hired Fangio and Gase, I am a lot less bothered by the Fox hire, again because he is known as a delegator, and I don't mind at all if he delegates to those two. The fact that the opinion in a lot of Denver is that he is not a strong game planner, and any fan could see his in-game decisions were maddening, well, at some level that doesn't matter to me, because if he couldn't win one with that Denver team, I don't see how he wins one with this Bears team, and so the goal for what happens next season changes (in my opinion). I want to see him preside over a team that develops some great young talent. I hope he basically amounts to an advisor to Fangio and Gase, and if we lose a game or two because of him bumbling some in-game decision but otherwise allows the ship to sail in a better direction, fine, I'll take that. He is notorious for refusing to go for 2 points for the point after, ever since his epic failure that cost him the season that one year in Carolina, and I know at some point it is going to drive me batty when he doesn't go for two in a case where it's clear he should. But I can get over that, as long as we get some player development going.

The other huge thing concerns Cutler, of course. I agree with Joey that hiring this QB coach, who Cutler befriended at Vanderbilt, the Bears almost hired two years ago, but has an otherwise unremarkable career, means the Bears are sticking with Cutler. So if Cutler is here, this means Fox gets stuck with the ultimate responsibility of dealing with him. Hopefully, one way or another, he gets into his head and miraculously gets a guy who has spent too many seasons throwing too many interceptions to stop. I don't know how that happens, but if Fox helps that happen, good for him, and for us.

 

[anotheridiot]

Cali,

those are all great points and all make sense. My concern is how he basically let Manning take over that offense, is Jay gonna think he can just call all the plays too, will he get lassood in? Its the same fox and same Gase that manning took advantage of.

There was also a pre hire comment from cutler that he didnt even remember who gase was. Lets hope a
boot up his ass reminds him.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

One other thought on this....clearly, Fox and Gase allowed Manning A LOT of liberty to run the offense in Denver. Presuming we stick with Jay, you would have to think the Bears would do something similar here. I don't know, but I would read that as something like the Bears saying to Cutler "Jay, we have tried it about every way out there, we have used several different coordinators, and none of it works. Here are the car keys. We are giving you parents that mostly will let you do what you want within reason."

Isn't something like this logical? If so, it is basically his last chance. What else can this team do with the guy?

I don't know, do you think Cutler will have more success with this than Peyton Manning did?

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Yea, I hear you. I have more respect for Coach Fox taking Carolina to the SB with Jake Delhomme, but I have a harder time saying his great coaching took Peyton Manning to the SB. Also, it wasn't long after the SB run in Carolina that the Panthers went 2-14, with the same coach. Um...

It hasn't all been roses with him. BUT, I do like the Fangio hire, this could end up being huge.

I'm conflicted, which is one reason why I say I understand the pessimism. To me, Coach Fox appears to be the perfect candidate for turning this team around. But, then there is the can't win a SB stuff, yea he got teams there, but couldn't win the big one, and when he wasn't going to the SB he had bad seasons, 8-8, 2-14 etc... Very Lovieesque.

For me it was Cutleresque. Both Cutler and Delhomme were turnover machines. I'm just saying he can get us there.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

One other thought on this....clearly, Fox and Gase allowed Manning A LOT of liberty to run the offense in Denver. Presuming we stick with Jay, you would have to think the Bears would do something similar here. I don't know, but I would read that as something like the Bears saying to Cutler "Jay, we have tried it about every way out there, we have used several different coordinators, and none of it works. Here are the car keys. We are giving you parents that mostly will let you do what you want within reason."

Isn't something like this logical? If so, it is basically his last chance. What else can this team do with the guy?

I don't know, do you think Cutler will have more success with this than Peyton Manning did?

Manning earned the right to call his own plays. Cutler clearly has not. If they Keep Jay(strike one) if they let him call plays (strike 2). My whole judgement on this staff will come down to what we do with Cutler.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Here's my take on this, for what it's worth. Fox "took" the team to the playoffs three years in a row, and for my money they were the most talent-laden of the lot in the last 2 of 3. First year, he pretty much coached them to a loss in the Ravens playoff game. That's not just my opinion, a lot of the folks in denver felt that way. The Super Bowl loss, well, that was pretty much an all-around Denver collapse, you can't pin that just on him, but certainly when your entire team blows the game so badly, some of that has to fall back on the coaching staff. This year, again, they did not have a particularly effective strategy for the playoff loss. Now, it isn't Fox's fault that Manning was completely (and uncharacteristically) inaccurate in that game. But, as one example, why they continued to focus on the long-range passing game is a question for somebody in Denver, even after it was clear Manning was off that game and that approach wasn't working.

Now, I don't entirely blame Fox for that...word has it that he was pretty much a delegating type of coach who handed a lot of the details off to his coordinators (and Manning of course). But at some point, the coach has to step in somewhere when things aren't going right and change course.))).....
I agree to a point. But Manning calls or changes the play every down. I don't get why he kept trying passes he must have known he could not hit. I blame Manning for that reason, and the injury to him but not the coaching.

 

[nebearsfan70]

I know their is some pessimism from some if us, but...

Fox et. al. is better than Trestman and his lot of shitty assistants. This can only get better, and I truly believe the Bears will be poised for a PO run in two seasons.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Cali,

those are all great points and all make sense. My concern is how he basically let Manning take over that offense, is Jay gonna think he can just call all the plays too, will he get lassood in? Its the same fox and same Gase that manning took advantage of.

There was also a pre hire comment from cutler that he didnt even remember who gase was. Lets hope a
boot up his ass reminds him.

yeah I didn't actually see your post til just now, I was writing the other one when you posted this, so clearly we are thinking about the same thing. If Cutler is here, this is going to be a major item to watch.

 

[NCChiFan]

I know their is some pessimism from some if us, but...

Fox et. al. is better than Trestman and his lot of shitty assistants. This can only get better, and I truly believe the Bears will be poised for a PO run in two seasons.

That is the other side of the debate... Without a doubt this is also true, as of right now it is looking much better for our Bears team GM and Coaching staff wise. F/A acquisitions and the Draft are the next big hurdle.

Edit: This goes for Noon too.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Ok... I hear you guys keep saying it's all about Jay Cutler- I get why you say it.
But since The Great Black Monday- IT's been VERY rare to hear anyone talk about or point out the other failures of this Bears team... AND yes, yes... I KNOW some of you have. It's been discussed. But the focus has entirely been on the Jay Cutler "Question". Can we trade him, Will Fox keep him, if so it's only ONE more year of his Crap!!
What if Fox/Fangio can get the defense to respectability? What if Gase can get a running game and balanced offense that doesn't jump off sides every other play? What if the ST coach get's our returner to take a knee? What if Fox controls Marshall and he rebounds?

This is what a 5-11 team looks like:
The bears opponents only had 3 more offensive plays...and 800 more yards!! and scored 123 more points.
On 3rd Down facing the Bear Defense:
The average QB rating on 3rd down against the Bears: 110.9 (Brady and Rodgers were perfect 158.3)
The league average is 69.0
Number of Sacks on 3rd down: ZERO. Not one sack on 3rd down. I double checked that a couple of times.
Forced 4 interceptions and 3 fumbles.
189 3rd downs... 30% of the time they gave up 10 yards or more. 58/189
11 of those 58 was for 20+
3 of those 58 was for 30+
3 of those 58 was for 40+
1 of those 58 was for 50+
1 of those 58 was for 73 yards.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I know a big reason why people hate Cutler is for his paycheck. Everyone loved to mention how he was the highest paid QB. blah blah blah.... (it's not your money)

Heading into 2015, Jay Cutler ($16.5m) will be the 11th highest paid QUARTERBACK in the NFL. Not the eleventh highest paid player, he will be the 18th highest paid player equivalent to the likes of Andre Johnson ($16m) and Haloti Ngata ($16m). Cutler will only be getting paid about $800,000 more than Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith.
And that will most likely change when Luck and Wilson sign new deals.
I know for most of you- they won't matter and you will say something like- "ahhh he doesn't deserve a dime!!" well that's not how it works in the NFL.

 

[anotheridiot]

I hated cutler before his paycheck, its always been his demeaner and fans sucking up to his stats. But I also think being the highest paid QB last year was a big problem for Jay personally as well.

I would have much better preferred that Emery didnt defer those 4 million to this season and cutler would have been making the original contract numbers of 12.5 for this and next year. They could have torn off that bandage last year with the 22 but instead pulled it off half way so we suffer again this year.

Now Jay gets his Vandy buddy QB coach, a head coach and offensive coordinator that handed off play calling to Manning. All we need Jay to understand is every running play is not expected to get a first down. Its setting up a defense for a play down the road and dont even bother the play action when your fakes are a foot away from the running back and everyone knows you are not running the ball.

I really think Jay can be fixed. He needs to be a leader, he needs to hit some receivers in stride so they stop getting blown up, he needs to accept the fact he needs work. That is the first part of fixing Jay, and if its his Vandy buddy being able to tell him where he does things wrong, its the first step in getting right.