Fitzpatrick gives in and agree to 1 yr deal with NYJ

[HaroldSeattle]

Funny how threads spin off in all kinds of directions.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

The Broncos were a bit cap strapped this year. Money though really wasn't the issue. They have the most cap space of any team in the league so it is easy to design a contract where they have a small cap hit this year and the big cap hit happens next year. Chiefs just did that with Houston where his first year cap hit was only $6 million yet the deal is worth around $17 million a year.

Essentially what the Broncos do when figuring out contracts is they put a ceiling price on each player. They will not go higher than that. That does mean that some good players will leave for better contracts of teams that are willing to overpay but it helps keep the Broncos in check to not be overpaying for good not great talent. Osweiler's contract got above what they wanted to pay.

What was the ceiling Elway put on Oz? Seahawks do the same at valuing their players so I understand where your team is coming from. So my guess is Sanchez starts this year and Lynch takes over next year barring injuries?

 

[cdumler7]

What was the ceiling Elway put on Oz? Seahawks do the same at valuing their players so I understand where your team is coming from. So my guess is Sanchez starts this year and Lynch takes over next year barring injuries?

Well it all depends on who you listen to. There are rumors that they made one final ditch effort and offered something like $16 million a year on a 3-year deal. Honestly hard to know too much without knowing the true guaranteed money side of the deal. They can say the value of the contract was $16 million a year but say the first 2 years are only $10 million cap hit and the final year is just a huge number that he will never see. So again hard to know exactly the value the Broncos put on him. Highest though would be a true $16 million a year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Well it all depends on who you listen to. There are rumors that they made one final ditch effort and offered something like $16 million a year on a 3-year deal. Honestly hard to know too much without knowing the true guaranteed money side of the deal. They can say the value of the contract was $16 million a year but say the first 2 years are only $10 million cap hit and the final year is just a huge number that he will never see. So again hard to know exactly the value the Broncos put on him. Highest though would be a true $16 million a year.

And the part about dirty Sanchez and Lynch?

 

[cdumler7]

And the part about dirty Sanchez and Lynch?

Oh sorry missed that part. I honestly don't know who the Broncos will start. The coaches have actually been very impressed with Trevor Siemian so far. Heck even some of our best defensive players have been impressed with him up to this point in camp. So right now it is a true 3 QB race in Denver.

If I were guessing honestly I think it could come down to Siemian and Lynch. If Lynch can pick up the offense quickly then I think he wins it because he is the superior athlete and if things break down can take off running. If he struggles to pick up the offense then I could see Siemian being our starter week 1.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

What was the ceiling Elway put on Oz? Seahawks do the same at valuing their players so I understand where your team is coming from. So my guess is Sanchez starts this year and Lynch takes over next year barring injuries?

The Seahawks do have a number in mind for signing players, but for certain positions I think they give the self some wiggle room. Franchise QB being at the top. Pretty sure they would of went higher if need be with RW, think they were hoping to sign him for less then they did, but they weren't going go the Broncos route and let RW play the market, that would of been really costly.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Oh sorry missed that part. I honestly don't know who the Broncos will start. The coaches have actually been very impressed with Trevor Siemian so far. Heck even some of our best defensive players have been impressed with him up to this point in camp. So right now it is a true 3 QB race in Denver.

If I were guessing honestly I think it could come down to Siemian and Lynch. If Lynch can pick up the offense quickly then I think he wins it because he is the superior athlete and if things break down can take off running. If he struggles to pick up the offense then I could see Siemian being our starter week 1.

So Sanchez is your Matt Flynn?

 

[cdumler7]

So Sanchez is your Matt Flynn?

He could be. Honestly right now hard to tell. We have 2 guys trying to learn the playbook so of course they are going to be behind the guy who is in year 2. Throw in we are in OTA's where for the most part they are throwing against air. I'm just really not sure who will win this battle. All of them have gotten pretty good reviews from practice. Again how much of that is coach speak and the fact that they are in a very controlled environment?

 

[cdumler7]

The Seahawks do have a number in mind for signing players, but for certain positions I think they give the self some wiggle room. Franchise QB being at the top. Pretty sure they would of went higher if need be with RW, think they were hoping to sign him for less then they did, but they weren't going go the Broncos route and let RW play the market, that would of been really costly.

Russell Wilson had proven before the contract that he was for sure a franchise QB though. Much easier to give a big contract to a guy with 3 years of starting experience and very high quality starts with a Super Bowl victory. Compare that to a guy with 7 starts after 4 years on the bench and in those 4 starts not looking all that great.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Russell Wilson had proven before the contract that he was for sure a franchise QB though. Much easier to give a big contract to a guy with 3 years of starting experience and very high quality starts with a Super Bowl victory. Compare that to a guy with 7 starts after 4 years on the bench and in those 4 starts not looking all that great.

Oh I agree, but can you believe that there were some that wanted to see just one more year before the Seahawks pony up all that money? Some actually thought it be better to let him walk and go with a cheap fill in, all the better to build a super duper defense and win with it.

 

[cdumler7]

Oh I agree, but can you believe that there were some that wanted to see just one more year before the Seahawks pony up all that money? Some actually thought it be better to let him walk and go with a cheap fill in, all the better to build a super duper defense and win with it.

Haha no to me Wilson had already proved he was easily top-8 in the league and most likely should be mentioned in the top-5. You don't let that type of QB go. To me if they have only shown average QB play though I would rather not commit huge money to a QB. You see those teams maybe have one good year every 3-4 years but the rest they are stuck in mediocrity not able to really build the team as much through FA and missing out on the higher draft picks. So they just continue to be stuck in that spot.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Oh sorry missed that part. I honestly don't know who the Broncos will start. The coaches have actually been very impressed with Trevor Siemian so far. Heck even some of our best defensive players have been impressed with him up to this point in camp. So right now it is a true 3 QB race in Denver.

If I were guessing honestly I think it could come down to Siemian and Lynch. If Lynch can pick up the offense quickly then I think he wins it because he is the superior athlete and if things break down can take off running. If he struggles to pick up the offense then I could see Siemian being our starter week 1.

I would be surprised if Siemian really does compete. That would be pretty astounding. I know they are talking him up and he looks alright in camp, but heard the same thing about Van Pelt, Dysert, Brandstater, Jarious Jackson. Seems every year when the QB situation is in flux, it's that 7th round/undrafted guy that everyone out here falls in love with, and every time it really isn't.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Haha no to me Wilson had already proved he was easily top-8 in the league and most likely should be mentioned in the top-5. You don't let that type of QB go. To me if they have only shown average QB play though I would rather not commit huge money to a QB. You see those teams maybe have one good year every 3-4 years but the rest they are stuck in mediocrity not able to really build the team as much through FA and missing out on the higher draft picks. So they just continue to be stuck in that spot.

Agree that's nothing like Wilson.

They are in a tough spot, they aren't competing for a top pick as long as that D is together playing like they are. And that D likely isn't going to be playing at that level much longer. Especially if they are still sitting there with known stopgap solutions at QB when guys hit free agency.

But for what's available, I think they took by far the best choice they had available for a QB that has the potential to be great. Other options were the 2nd tier rookie QB's (not Goff/Wentz) and giving up that draft capital for them (the pick they used on Fuller to get Lynch), or guys with even bigger questions (Kaep/RGIII). And then the cap space is there, not really giving anything up on that team to sign a FA.

 

[tabascojet]

Could Jets end Ryan Fitzpatrick impasse with a Revis-like proposal?

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

The Seahawks do have a number in mind for signing players, but for certain positions I think they give the self some wiggle room. Franchise QB being at the top. Pretty sure they would of went higher if need be with RW, think they were hoping to sign him for less then they did, but they weren't going go the Broncos route and let RW play the market, that would of been really costly.

Very true and more on the defensive side of the ball except the QB position. Seattle would have broken the bank to keep RW.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Sorry I don't think I explained my point well. I meant just like any QB that takes a QB early in the draft is tied pretty close to that QB so is one that wants a team to pay big bucks to bring in a FA. I didn't mean for it to come out that if they miss the playoffs or don't do better than last year that O'Brien will be fired. His seat will get a bit warmer if they miss the playoffs of course but the Osweiler situation has bought him 2 more seasons in my opinion. One year of down play is understandable from a new QB. 2 straight years when you are paying him $36 million over that period though is not.

Ok so we finally agree if PM didn't win a SB with Kube's after 2 years Kubes should've been fired.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Ok so we finally agree if PM didn't win a SB with Kube's after 2 years Kubes should've been fired.

I still don't see that in the post above. He's talking about a coach 2 years in with the team who struggled to get his offense going then adding a new QB and not getting past 4 years there if the side of the ball he coaches doesn't come around.

Maybe if Kub's had 2 years trying with an aged Manning and then before the 2017 season Denver made a big move for the guy Kubiak wanted, he should go if the rest of the team was still playing at a high level but his QB play was letting him down. I could definitely agree with that one.

But O'Brien tried Fitzpatrick, then went out and went through round 1 of adding "his guys" in Mallett and Hoyer, and that didn't work, then make the big move for a QB, and after 4 years of trying and a handful of different QB's starting and still not getting good QB play from a coach who was brought in especially for improving that side of the ball and that position yes.

I mean you can't just have a flat ruling for two completely different situations or infer anything from one into the other like that if you ask me.

 

[cdumler7]

I would be surprised if Siemian really does compete. That would be pretty astounding. I know they are talking him up and he looks alright in camp, but heard the same thing about Van Pelt, Dysert, Brandstater, Jarious Jackson. Seems every year when the QB situation is in flux, it's that 7th round/undrafted guy that everyone out here falls in love with, and every time it really isn't.

Like I said I have no clue right now what is going to happen at the QB spot. I could make an argument for all 3. I do know so far in practice Siemian has gotten the most compliments from the press/coaches/players of the 3. Doesn't mean the other two haven't but I have read the most from Siemian which is why I give him a shot.

 

[cdumler7]

Ok so we finally agree if PM didn't win a SB with Kube's after 2 years Kubes should've been fired.

Not sure we are on the same page here. I said that O'Brien has tied himself to that of Osweiler. If the Texans don't do well over the next couple of years or possibly depending on the patience of the owner if they don't do any better than say 9-7 and lose in the Wild Card then I could see O'Brien fired. That is what happens when a coach ties themselves to a high priced QB or a very high pick QB. Their success or failure usually reflects quite a bit on the coach.

Now I can say the same about Kubiak and Lynch now but at the same time Kubiak has bought himself a very long leash with winning a Super Bowl his first year. Throw in he is very good maybe even best friends with Elway.

We did see though a coach who had Manning for 3 years get fired when he didn't produce a Super Bowl. Elway said that the team just wasn't living up to the potential of the team and decided instead of hitting the reset button on the players it was easier to hit the reset button on the coaching staff letting Del Rio and Fox go and then giving Gase the option to stay on or look for a job elsewhere.

I don't think Kubiak though would be fired if he didn't win a Super Bowl this past year though. I mean even without the Super Bowl victory he still gave us another division title, 2 wins over the Patriots in prime time games, the #1 seed, and beyond the Patriots game the Broncos really only lost one prime time game and that was against the Steelers. So there was a lot of promise shown beyond just the Super Bowl title.

 

[cdumler7]

I still don't see that in the post above. He's talking about a coach 2 years in with the team who struggled to get his offense going then adding a new QB and not getting past 4 years there if the side of the ball he coaches doesn't come around.

Maybe if Kub's had 2 years trying with an aged Manning and then before the 2017 season Denver made a big move for the guy Kubiak wanted, he should go if the rest of the team was still playing at a high level but his QB play was letting him down. I could definitely agree with that one.

But O'Brien tried Fitzpatrick, then went out and went through round 1 of adding "his guys" in Mallett and Hoyer, and that didn't work, then make the big move for a QB, and after 4 years of trying and a handful of different QB's starting and still not getting good QB play from a coach who was brought in especially for improving that side of the ball and that position yes.

I mean you can't just have a flat ruling for two completely different situations or infer anything from one into the other like that if you ask me.

Exactly...I'm not trying to tie Kubiak at all into the situation. O'Brien just by himself has reached that make or break point in his career. Going to the wildcard while a decent accomplishment is not what any owner or fan base is hoping for to be the high point. So they then go spend big money to bring in a FA QB. The expectations for Osweiler and O'Brien sky rocket. Easy to justify Osweiler playing average or below average when he was on a rookie contract. Him on an $18 million contract though no longer can he have those same expectations. I have no problem giving O'Brien and Osweiler 2 seasons to show what they got together. If losing in the Wildcard or worse is all that happens over the next two years do you really think O'Brien still has a job @NWPATSFAN