Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2015 Thread

[broncosmitty]

oh.. and joe nathan pitched less than an inning last year.. so it has nothing to do with what castellanos did last year. He didn't lose a single game last year for the tigers. not one game was lost as a result of castellanos defense.

Lol

 

[broncosmitty]

I don't care about his swing and miss % on breaking balls at the age of 23.. Look at a scouting report. There are not many scouts that think he won't hit for .300 average in his prime. Honestly... You can't have it both ways smitty.. you want the team to develop players in house and not have a shitty farm system.. yet you seem to suggest giving up on them at the age of 23... what would have happened if the royals gave up on all their guys at the age of 23?

I don't know where this "give up" stuff comes from.

DD didn't give up on Ray. He traded him. For another young pitcher. One who started off the season like a stud. Then stunk.

DD didn't give up on Maybin or Miller when he traded them. He traded them, for an AllStar. Who happens to be the only thing this franchise has that really matters, nearly a decade later.

Nick could be an excellent hitter someday. He's isn't right now. He's adequate, that's fine. He'll never be a solid defender. And he's a piss poor one right now.

The majors isn't the place to develop your skills. Especially when it's on a team that is spending money everywhere else in the attempt to win NOW.

 

[broncosmitty]

its one thing to give up on a young guy if he comes out of the minors at the age of 24 or 25 and he doesn't start to hit within a year.. but seriously.. if the Tigers kept castellanos in the minors until he was the age of kris bryant.. everyone would be sucking the kid off right now because he probably would have hit 25 HR and .300+ easily in an entire season at AAA in 2015. Its all relative.. the tigers brought Castellanos up when he was 21... Bryant sat in the minors putting up big numbers vs AA and AAA players... If you don't think Castellanos could have done that you are blind. Castellanos would have dominated AAA pitching... and if he was down there and just coming up.. you would be sucking his shaft.

I watched him play in the minors.

That's why I wanted him to be dealt years ago.

 

[MiamiVice]

As unfair as it is.. Many fans have a clock with prospects... They don't care if the kid comes up at the age of 20 or 25. If they are not producing at an all star clip within a year.. they want to move on. Its a comical way to look at it.. because nobody is going to tell me that the entire fanbase wouldn't be jerking off at night with the thought of how awesome castellanos would be if he was brought up the same time kris bryant was last year. Nobody is going to tell me that if he was kept in the minors for his age 22 season.. he wouldn't have put up outstanding numbers. He hit .276 and 18 HR as a 21 yr old in AAA... Kris Bryant only was marginally better than that at the age of 22 in AAA.. in a more hitter friendly pacific coast league. The point I am trying to make is you are shitting on the kid when he is younger than most prospects and acting like he can't improve.. when in reality.. in most cases.. He would still be in the minors right now.. and every scouting site would have him ranked in the top 5 hitters in the minors. He was #15 before coming up as a 21 yr old. You watched him in the minors and thought he should have been traded huh? LOL.. Now that makes me laugh. Seriously man.. You crack me up. You want to trade prospects left and right like DD was doing still? That seems to have won WS... Are you going to complain about how shitty the farm system is too while you want prospects traded away?

 

[MiamiVice]

Seriously... Not developing talent in house is the death of every contending team. All the win now trades are why the Tigers have nothing what so ever as far as pitching talent in the upper minors. Trading away a hitting prospect like Castellanos would have been retarded. Not seeing through his development would also be retarded. Castellanos is a natural hitter. All he needs is pitch recognition and he will hit for a very high average. That comes with time. He doesn't holes in his swing like Trout. His swing and misses on breaking balls comes from swinging on balls out of the strike zone.. not from not being able to hit a breaking ball. Show me a hitter that hits breaking balls well at the age of 22-23... and I will show you a future HOFer.

 

[MiamiVice]

I don't know where this "give up" stuff comes from.

DD didn't give up on Ray. He traded him. For another young pitcher. One who started off the season like a stud. Then stunk.

DD didn't give up on Maybin or Miller when he traded them. He traded them, for an AllStar. Who happens to be the only thing this franchise has that really matters, nearly a decade later.

Nick could be an excellent hitter someday. He's isn't right now. He's adequate, that's fine. He'll never be a solid defender. And he's a piss poor one right now.

The majors isn't the place to develop your skills. Especially when it's on a team that is spending money everywhere else in the attempt to win NOW.

DD gave up on Ray.. He was 23... He traded him for a 26 year old that had the upside of a #4 starter... Ray has middle of the rotation upside.. He gave up on him. The Ray trade was NOTHING like the Maybin/Miller trade for Miggy. Ray didn't land a future HOFer that was already an all star. .Comparing those trades is laughable.

 

[MiamiVice]

And just an FYI.. Fulmer is on par with Robbie Ray. Fulmer is getting hyped like crazy.. but in reality.. going into 2015.. he wasn't even a top 5 prospect in the Mets system... some didn't even have him in the mets top 10. Yet here we are.. every tigers fan is drooling over him ready to slurp him up. The same would be going on with Castellanos.. x 10... because Castellanos actually was a legit prospect.. not a product of hype.

 

[broncosmitty]

DD gave up on Ray.. He was 23... He traded him for a 26 year old that had the upside of a #4 starter... Ray has middle of the rotation upside.. He gave up on him. The Ray trade was NOTHING like the Maybin/Miller trade for Miggy. Ray didn't land a future HOFer that was already an all star. .Comparing those trades is laughable.

He traded him.

its an example, one of many, of a GM exchanging value. Giving up is cutting someone.

 

[broncosmitty]

I like it better when Blue takes it upon himself to keep Vice's pro-Tigers propaganda machine clickin'.

 

[MiamiVice]

He traded him.

its an example, one of many, of a GM exchanging value. Giving up is cutting someone.

um... no.. you can give up a player without cutting them. trading them away is very much a way to give up on them. Trading what was once a top 100 prospect for a pitcher that is 3 years older and has a ceiling of back of the rotation... is not exchanging value. You must have bumped your head if you think Greene held equal value to Ray... Who do you think will be more at the end of 2016?

 

[broncosmitty]

I mentioned the Maybin/Miller deal cuz a Nicky C/whoever deal could also land a CURRENT All Star.

Could, but instead we'll have a butcher at third, again.

 

[MiamiVice]

I like it better when Blue takes it upon himself to keep Vice's pro-Tigers propaganda machine clickin'.

How am i pro tigers? I just told you fulmer is all hype. I think Ray will have a better career than fulmer just because he is a lefty and can be an asset out of the bullpen.

 

[MiamiVice]

I mentioned the Maybin/Miller deal cuz a Nicky C/whoever deal could also land a CURRENT All Star.

Could, but instead we'll have a butcher at third, again.

if castellanos was handled properly and kept in AAA an extra year to develop his defense at third.. you probably would be thinking differently... no reason a stop gap wasn't signed and castellanos was allowed to have a full year at 3rd in AAA instead of playing LF there. If you don't think that shift from LF didn't affect him.. you are nuts.

 

[broncosmitty]

um... no.. you can give up a player without cutting them. trading them away is very much a way to give up on them. Trading what was once a top 100 prospect for a pitcher that is 3 years older and has a ceiling of back of the rotation... is not exchanging value. You must have bumped your head if you think Greene held equal value to Ray... Who do you think will be more at the end of 2016?

I don't really care who will be more. Ray is a DBack, iffy might care what he does. I don't.

I think you've overestimated Ray somewhere along the line personally. I never considered him of any more importance than I do Greene now. Which isn't much. He's behind Mike Pelfry in the depth chart, that's a bad sign for anyone.

Giving up something usually means you don't get anything in return. Otherwise, it's an exchange. And in the thesaurus, exchange and trade go together. But I'm all for redefining things.... Noah Webster's been dead long enough.

 

[MiamiVice]

I love when people think that trading away their team for high priced "current all stars" is the way to build a team. How did that work out for the Dodgers? The Dodgers changed their approach and now are focusing on their farm and developing in house. Do the Cards and Giants trade away their prospects for "current all stars" to fill their lineup? Seems they tend to win more WS than the Tigers did using this approach.

 

[MiamiVice]

I don't really care who will be more. Ray is a DBack, iffy might care what he does. I don't.

I think you've overestimated Ray somewhere along the line personally. I never considered him of any more importance than I do Greene now. Which isn't much. He's behind Mike Pelfry in the depth chart, that's a bad sign for anyone.

Giving up something usually means you don't get anything in return. Otherwise, it's an exchange. And in the thesaurus, exchange and trade go together. But I'm all for redefining things.... Noah Webster's been dead long enough.

I am not over estimating Ray.. He is a back of the rotation starter with the possibility of having a nice year or two.. and as a lefty could be used out of the pen with great value... Fulmer is nothing special at all... He hasn't even seen AAA hitters yet. Once again... he wasn't even in the Mets top 10 prospects going into 2015 on many scouting sites. Ray most certainly is more valuable than Pelfrey.... You should probably take a gander at Ray's stats from last year... Hint.. they are way better than Greene's or Pelfreys.

 

[MiamiVice]

Giving up Ray ( a one time top 100 prospect) and Domingo Leyba for Greene was most certainly NOT equal value... on any level. At the time of the trade and now. DD gave Ray away. And Domingo Leyba is currently the 6th rated prospect in the Diamondbacks system... which by the way is a lot better than the Tigers system is. Greene was basically a right handed version of Kyle Lobstein... He was a middle of the road minor leaguer that was 25 years old when he was called up... had a few impressive starts in NY.. and was traded at peak value that he will NEVER see again. His minor league numbers are puke. Kyle Lobstein's minor league numbers piss on Greene's... Thats sad. DD got fleeced on that trade.. even if it would have been just Leyba and not Ray.

 

[broncosmitty]

We've veared far off the Castellanos is a bad third baseman trail....

I Seriosuly don't care aboot Robbie Ray and his fifth spot in the rotation on a team that had no pitching to speak of.

Let's get back to tButcher.

 

[MiamiVice]

We've veared far off the Castellanos is a bad third baseman trail....

I Seriosuly don't care aboot Robbie Ray and his fifth spot in the rotation on a team that had no pitching to speak of.

Let's get back to tButcher.

Castellanos is a below 3rd basemen defensively because he was moved to LF in AAA and never got a chance to actually have meaningful innings there at the position. He should never have been called up to play in 2014... He should have been left in AAA to work on 3rd base. He was 22.. There was no reason to rush him. They could have signed a stop gap option very easily to hold the spot over for a year. He was mismanaged and you are watching a 23 year old that was under developed try to figure it out at the MLB level. trust me when I say this.. he will hit. he will hit well above league average... talking about his lack of laying of breaking balls is comical. that is a very normal thing that takes time to learn. that is why most hitters don't hit their prime until the late 20's... its not just physical... its mental. but yeah.. go ahead and keep trading guys when they are highly touted prospects for high priced all stars... its works... all the ws winners of late have used that method.. oh.. wait.. no they haven't.

 

[broncosmitty]

Castellanos is a below 3rd basemen defensively.

Yeah, I know.

You should have seen him at 3rd in the minors. Horrible. Straight up awful. 23 errors, led the Midwest League.

He was almost as bad the next year. But I didn't see any of it myself. Then he became a bad outfielder for awhile.