Dak Prescott

[jarntt]

Not true as his new contract would officially kick in in 2020 regardless. His SB would have started this season then for 4 years on his new deal.

And your point that even at 30 per year his contract will be high anyway at some point that stands more true at 35M per.
My stance is had they signed him pre Wilson they'd have him at a bargain for another 5 years.

I'm not sure how else to explain it. No matter the structure we saved a lot of cap space by waiting and also have less risk after seeing more of Dak which is the most important thing. If Dak signed in 2018 and even nothing else changed with his contract and his signing bonus was let's say $50M, that's $20M more that would have already hit our cap if he signed for 5 years or more and $25M more if he signed for 4 years. That's $20M less that we would have this year and $20M less we can roll into future years to pay for his contract.

 

[Manster7588]

I'm not sure how else to explain it. No matter the structure we saved a lot of cap space by waiting and also have less risk after seeing more of Dak which is the most important thing. If Dak signed in 2018 and even nothing else changed with his contract and his signing bonus was let's say $50M, that's $20M more that would have already hit our cap if he signed for 5 years or more and $25M more if he signed for 4 years. That's $20M less that we would have this year and $20M less we can roll into future years to pay for his contract.

First off I never said sign him in 2018, not that it would make a difference because it would have been an extension and aside from the bonus money his 2019 salary would be the same as it already is. I said they should have signed him before Wilson signed his 2019 contract and they'd have him at a big discount than they're going to be paying him soon. Even if his signing bonus was 100M the team would still be under the 2019 cap. Not sure why you see saving cap space in 2019 is a big deal when the team is 20M under right now. With the cap room the team had going into this past offseason front loading contracts was the way I'd have operated.

 

[jarntt]

First off I never said sign him in 2018, not that it would make a difference because it would have been an extension and aside from the bonus money his 2019 salary would be the same as it already is. I said they should have signed him before Wilson signed his 2019 contract and they'd have him at a big discount than they're going to be paying him soon. Even if his signing bonus was 100M the team would still be under the 2019 cap. Not sure why you see saving cap space in 2019 is a big deal when the team is 20M under right now. With the cap room the team had going into this past offseason front loading contracts was the way I'd have operated.

Cap savings in 2019 is HUGE because you roll it into future years to pay these huge deals that have been handed out and still to be handed out. The cap isn't a one year calculation. You save $10M in the current year and you can use it down the road.

 

[Manster7588]

Cap savings in 2019 is HUGE because you roll it into future years to pay these huge deals that have been handed out and still to be handed out. The cap isn't a one year calculation. You save $10M in the current year and you can use it down the road.

And you pay it to Dak in now and you save money on his future contract.

There is only ONE reason to wait and that's if you weren't sure he was a Franchise QB. I'll admit I had some concern with his year 2 drop, but I saw more than enough improvement after tear 3 my concerns were washed away.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I'm not sure how else to explain it. No matter the structure we saved a lot of cap space by waiting and also have less risk after seeing more of Dak which is the most important thing. If Dak signed in 2018 and even nothing else changed with his contract and his signing bonus was let's say $50M, that's $20M more that would have already hit our cap if he signed for 5 years or more and $25M more if he signed for 4 years. That's $20M less that we would have this year and $20M less we can roll into future years to pay for his contract.

I believe you are mistaken.
If we sign him lets say for 4 years. it is an extension to his rookie deal.
So we still have the 2 mil year (not instead of)
Now if we throw part of signing or other bonuses into the 2 mil year raising the cap for this year. That would be fine, because it is lower the cap in the other 4 years of the 35 mil (other whatever #) a yr avg. Since the longer we wait the higher that # is going. Longer we wait is only the more expensive it is gonna get.
We were never losing out of the final year of his rookie contract cheapness.

 

[jarntt]

I believe you are mistaken.
If we sign him lets say for 4 years. it is an extension to his rookie deal.
So we still have the 2 mil year (not instead of)
Now if we throw part of signing or other bonuses into the 2 mil year raising the cap for this year. That would be fine, because it is lower the cap in the other 4 years of the 35 mil (other whatever #) a yr avg. Since the longer we wait the higher that # is going. Longer we wait is only the more expensive it is gonna get.
We were never losing out of the final year of his rookie contract cheapness.

There is something in the water I think. You think there is any chance at all and I mean any chance at all Dak signs a new deal without a big signing bonus? That signing bonus is divided over a max of 5 years and will start hitting the cap ASAP. This isn't a new phenomena...and we likely add some roster bonuses too, to increase his salary/cash for next year too and spread that out over 5 years as well. Now back all this up a year or two and start it sooner and it increases what we would have given Dak and his corresponding cap hits. Since we didn't do any of that we have a shitload of extra cap space for Dak and others

 

[GNG]

The Cowboys will pay him as there is no better option available.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

There is something in the water I think. You think there is any chance at all and I mean any chance at all Dak signs a new deal without a big signing bonus? That signing bonus is divided over a max of 5 years and will start hitting the cap ASAP. This isn't a new phenomena...and we likely add some roster bonuses too, to increase his salary/cash for next year too and spread that out over 5 years as well. Now back all this up a year or two and start it sooner and it increases what we would have given Dak and his corresponding cap hits. Since we didn't do any of that we have a shitload of extra cap space for Dak and others

yes. Well aware of the over 5 years thing. What I dont understand is how you figure we save money by not signing him this year?

 

[jarntt]

yes. Well aware of the over 5 years thing. What I dont understand is how you figure we save money by not signing him this year?

What is his cap hit this year?
What would his cap hit be this year if we signed him?

 

[Schmoopy1000]

What is his cap hit this year?
What would his cap hit be this year if we signed him?

that to me is the advantage. Not the disadvantage.
Having a cheap year (Dak's 2019 year) to put some of those bonuses & such into t lessen the cap hit of the other 4 or 5 years would be very useful. Long term.

Cowboys have somewhere around 22.7 mil of cap space for this year to play with.
Why wait til next year when all of the contract goes into expensive years instead of spreading it into the extension, which would lessen the future cap.

 

[Manster7588]

There is something in the water I think. You think there is any chance at all and I mean any chance at all Dak signs a new deal without a big signing bonus? That signing bonus is divided over a max of 5 years and will start hitting the cap ASAP. This isn't a new phenomena...and we likely add some roster bonuses too, to increase his salary/cash for next year too and spread that out over 5 years as well. Now back all this up a year or two and start it sooner and it increases what we would have given Dak and his corresponding cap hits. Since we didn't do any of that we have a shitload of extra cap space for Dak and others

Look at it this way.
Say they signed him for 5 years (95M guaranteed) 30M per with 75M signing bonus. Years 1 and 2 at 10M, year 3 and 4 at 15M, and years 5 at 25M.

In all honesty I think pre Wilson he'd of signed for less than 30 but I upped it for argument's sake. They'd have him signed for at least 25M less then it's going to be and 15M of his guaranteed money would already be accounted for in a year where they had Salary cap room.

If you had doubt's about him as The QB I understand waiting.

 

[jarntt]

that to me is the advantage. Not the disadvantage.
Having a cheap year (Dak's 2019 year) to put some of those bonuses & such into t lessen the cap hit of the other 4 or 5 years would be very useful. Long term.

Cowboys have somewhere around 22.7 mil of cap space for this year to play with.
Why wait til next year when all of the contract goes into expensive years instead of spreading it into the extension, which would lessen the future cap.

What's cheap is paying him what he is getting now without the bonus and you roll that savings forward. It doesn't get cheaper by adding a bonus. Dak will probably not really have another year ever without a signing bonus included. He will eventually get old and let's say he plays 10 years. You are just starting the clock earlier of his highly paid years. The longer you wait the better.

I never said wait until next year to sign him, but financially I am fine waiting if he won't sign for a reasonable price. He needs it, the team doesn't. you are better off if you wait in the long run because while salaries obviously go up, someone will get hurt or bomb out and save you a fortune.

 

[jarntt]

Look at it this way.
Say they signed him for 5 years (95M guaranteed) 30M per with 75M signing bonus. Years 1 and 2 at 10M, year 3 and 4 at 15M, and years 5 at 25M.

In all honesty I think pre Wilson he'd of signed for less than 30 but I upped it for argument's sake. They'd have him signed for at least 25M less then it's going to be and 15M of his guaranteed money would already be accounted for in a year where they had Salary cap room.

If you had doubt's about him as The QB I understand waiting.

No doubts. I feel like I know exactly who he is now. Not great, but good and loaded with intangibles. If Aaron Rodgers was a FA I'd say I have other options. I'm not one to think we get a QB in the draft as good when the last 3 we wanted were Cook, Manziel and Lynch.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Obviously. We have two different mindsets here. Which is fine

You are just starting the clock earlier of his highly paid years.

but as far as this part & this particular contract. this is untrue.
If we sign Dak to a 4 or 5 year deal those years of the contract wouldnt start until next year anyways. As it would be an extension to his current rookie deal. So the clock doesnt start any sooner on this particular deal.

 

[Manster7588]

No doubts. I feel like I know exactly who he is now. Not great, but good and loaded with intangibles. If Aaron Rodgers was a FA I'd say I have other options. I'm not one to think we get a QB in the draft as good when the last 3 we wanted were Cook, Manziel and Lynch.

Yes, I'd be willing to not sign Dak if Rodgers fell into our lap (I probably need to be very careful with my choice of words here), but if a better option isn't readily available I'm more than good with Dak at QB.

Remember WFRYE continually calling for cutting Romo and signing the Rodgers and Paytons even though they were under contract.

 

[Manster7588]

What's cheap is paying him what he is getting now without the bonus and you roll that savings forward. It doesn't get cheaper by adding a bonus. Dak will probably not really have another year ever without a signing bonus included. He will eventually get old and let's say he plays 10 years. You are just starting the clock earlier of his highly paid years. The longer you wait the better.

I never said wait until next year to sign him, but financially I am fine waiting if he won't sign for a reasonable price. He needs it, the team doesn't. you are better off if you wait in the long run because while salaries obviously go up, someone will get hurt or bomb out and save you a fortune.

But it does get cheaper in years 2020 through 2024. It would also mean 2024 is a cuttable year with ZERO dead money.

 

[jarntt]

Obviously. We have two different mindsets here. Which is fine

but as far as this part & this particular contract. this is untrue.
If we sign Dak to a 4 or 5 year deal those years of the contract wouldnt start until next year anyways. As it would be an extension to his current rookie deal. So the clock doesnt start any sooner on this particular deal.

sure it does. you give him a SB day 1 and the cap hit starts. You could also give him a roster bonus for the current year in lieu of a higher salary. If he gets hurt next week and is unsigned he never sees any of that either.

 

[jarntt]

But it does get cheaper in years 2020 through 2024. It would also mean 2024 is a cuttable year with ZERO dead money.

how is 2020 cheaper if we signed him in 2018 or 2019 (and is year 3) than if we sign him in 2020 (and it's year 1)? It's the opposite.

edit - nvm. This isn't going anywhere, you guys obviously aren't following it and I'm not sure why I'm responding because I really don't care to explain it any more

 

[Schmoopy1000]

sure it does. you give him a SB day 1 and the cap hit starts. You could also give him a roster bonus for the current year in lieu of a higher salary. If he gets hurt next week and is unsigned he never sees any of that either.

If he signs a contract next year that goes til 2024. well that 175 mil. or whatever # it is goes to 2024. (High priced)
If he signs that same contract this year. it is an extension. which means you have an extra year to spread that 175 mil (or whatever #) helping the Cap long term.
But that 175 mil contract still goes to 2024. Doesnt make it 2023 because it was signed this year. So the contract doesnt change when we would re up him again (the whole starting earlier, 10 years thing) Whatever contract he signs next. Whether it is this year or next. Will go to the same year before resigning him again.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

I just don’t know what’s taking so long with it. There are a few QBs that over 32 that I might take over him. There is Russell Wilson. There are a couple of young guys that are interesting. Other than that, I want my QB signed.

I’m assuming the top 5 for MVP right now are

1. Wilson
2. WAtson
3. L. Jackson
4. Arod
5. McCaffrey

I like Lamar Jackson as a fan. He is fun to watch , much like Vick. Vick though did a lot with his scrambling. The Ravens are lining up and calling run plays with LJ. Basically a Wildcat. How long do they plan on this guy lasting.