Curious as to why some think Kaepernick isn't doing well

[Kinzu]

We are getting less TDs from the QB with Kap. Plays aren't being relayed from the QB to the rest of the offense in time. Ball protection when getting sacked has me worried every time. The play calling has altered with him at the helm and it isn't making me all warm and cozy.

Well said, This is pretty much how I feel about it as well.

 

[Bemular]

You keep accusing me of cherry picking stats. Show me the stats that back up your assertion that Kaep is better. We already know its not PPG, its not QBR, its not explosive plays, its not protecting the ball, its not W-L % ( which is the most important stat). So other than not scoring as much, being no more explosive of a team and not having as good of a rating (which are all 100% provable FACTS) tell me what stats back you up??? Or are you giving it the eyeball test? Anyway now I am really leaving. LOL.

So you are finally testifying that stats tell the story about what QB's are better than other QB's and that stats equate to skills and ability - Seriously? You sure you want to go with that?

 

[FourBeeDen]

Indeed, amazing he's not our starter, the thread wasn't even about him, it was about our starting qb, and it turned into a thread about him.

It's the nature or essence of this thread... The standards would be used in judging how well or not CK is playing will always be based on the guy he replaced.. Even if CK was the starter at the beginning of the season, his play, good or bad, will always get compared to the who was there before... It works both ways... Both in criticism and in praise will indubitably be compared to the former guy... Just like Andrew Luck gets compared to Peyton Manning or Peyton Manning vs Tim Tebow and so on an so forth...

 

[deep9er]

Yes, I know Deep - there is much you don't get. It must be wonderful living in your mind - Deep, anyone knows it is mostly because of the sea levels and the polar ice melt - just go with that.

i'd get it if you made any sense? most times you do, but sometimes you don't. when i ask you to explain it, you can't. on this point in particular, if i had asked you first, then you'd get even more paranoid. glad someone else noticed it AND called you on it.

if it was a mistake, you could've just said so, then we all move on. hell, we all make mistakes.

if there was a simple explanation, you'd have just posted it back, but the fact you resort to a childish reply, gives you away.

 

[threelittleturds]

It's the nature or essence of this thread... The standards would be used in judging how well or not CK is playing will always be based on the guy he replaced.. Even if CK was the starter at the beginning of the season, his play, good or bad, will always get compared to the who was there before... It works both ways... Both in criticism and in praise will indubitably be compared to the former guy... Just like Andrew Luck gets compared to Peyton Manning or Peyton Manning vs Tim Tebow and so on an so forth...

Ha, I can imagine how those conversations went with Broncos fans.

Fan #1: Man, it's nice to have a real QB again.

Fan #2: I know right? One that doesn't suck.

*High Five*
*Take another swig of the beer*
*smile appreciatively*

 

[MHSL82]

Ha, I can imagine how those conversations went with Broncos fans.

Fan #1: Man, it's nice to have a real QB again.

Fan #2: I know right? One that doesn't suck.

*High Five*
*Take another swig of the beer*
*smile appreciatively*

Followed by assertions by Fan #3 of those two being bigots and hating Tebow as a player. Diversion tactics?

 

[MHSL82]

Not saying he never contributed but he definitely held this team back. Games we could've been blowing out teams, we merely beat them by 6 usually. Akers broke records last season because of Alex's inability to finish drives. I mean the only times he had passes over say 13 yards were because the WR had YAC. Sorry but I can't rewrite history for this guy. He is a game manager, that's it. No he's not Dilfer, but he wasn't even a game manager. He's the best QB to have as a backup and he's the worst decent QB to have as a starter IMO.

We've only blown out one team in the Bears, where if they had Cutler the game would have been closer. Kaep scored on their defense not their depleted offense, but Cutler would have either scored or kept us from having the ball in time of possession. Not Kaep's fault, just saying we can't say beyond potential that Kaep or Harbaugh's play-calling under Kaep is much different in regards to blowing teams out. The run at the end of the Dolphins game put the game away, but that's not a blowout. We just have too little sample size. Kaep would have blown out the Jets, Bills, and Cardinals like Smith's team did. Emphasis on team.

We have only trailed in one game by more than a field goal in which we didn't lose, so I can't say that he can come back. I believe he can, but I can't assert that Alex's weaknesses are Kaep's strengths, yet. Harbaugh is holding Kaep back with his conservative play-calling. Once Harbaugh lets go, I think Kaep can and will do it.

 

[TobyTyler]

agree.

"DESPITE Alex Smith" implies he doesn't contribute much, like he is almost in the way. but if you take 2011 and his starts this season, Alex Smith made his contribution in the majority of wins.

yes, there were games he didn't play as well and yes, our D is usually strong. but this doesn't mean Alex Smith didn't contribute.

I think it implies that he played poorly; was a hindrance to the victories and that just is not the case.

 

[TobyTyler]

Not saying he never contributed but he definitely held this team back. Games we could've been blowing out teams, we merely beat them by 6 usually. Akers broke records last season because of Alex's inability to finish drives. I mean the only times he had passes over say 13 yards were because the WR had YAC. Sorry but I can't rewrite history for this guy. He is a game manager, that's it. No he's not Dilfer, but he wasn't even a game manager. He's the best QB to have as a backup and he's the worst decent QB to have as a starter IMO.

Who was Smith supposed to blow these teams out with? Crabtree? Williams? Ginn? The O Line was terrible at pass blocking. The finally got him some weapons this year; the first year in his career that he had a good offense to work with. Give him a little credit. I think he could step in and do a good job if Kaepernick got hurt but I think now it is Kaepernick's team for good or bad.

 

[MHSL82]

"They say you are trying to win a SB with a guy with 7 career starts instead of a guy with 7 years of experience that has been through the highs and lows"

It is actually four career starts, but I digress. So, by your logic you would have instructed Mike Shanahan to start Rex Grossman over RGIII in Washington.

He's talking about heading into the playoffs, Kaep will have seven starts to Alex's 7 years. But spot on with the reference to Rex Grossman over RGIII, because while Smith did seem to do better than Grossman, Kaep had almost as little experience as RGIII, the pertinent comparison to Grossman's experience.

It says Kaps ability to extend drives is better than Smith's

Kaep's ability is definitely better, I just hope that Roman can call better plays on third down and we can stop getting so many penalties. That was something we again have struggled with in the Dolphins game. Kaep is able to extend drives by being more mobile in the pocket, having better pocket presence, etc., but until we can make defenses change their approach, we will have more sacks because the deeper plays that Kaep extended aren't getting open enough for (a willing) Kaep to throw. I put this on the coaches more than Kaep, obviously. Not making a comparison to Smith, because obviously, he kills drives with taking sacks.

It says Kaps lack of experience has not cost us in the W/L column.

This was something I've been happy about because while we lost a Rams game that we could have won and people will point that out, we could have lost to either the Bears or the Saints, so our record is the same. Against the Patriots and Seattle game, we should have a better chance if Harbaugh lets Kaep play. I don't want to keep making excuses for Kaep, but I do feel like he's being held back. I'll have to trust coach on what level of training wheels Kaep should have.

It says Kaps ability to play from behind is better than Smith's

It says Kaps ability to overcome his own mistakes is better than Smith'

I believe this is true, I just don't think we've had an opportunity to see him playing from behind much (which is a good thing). The sample size is too small, but I believe that we've seen enough to know he can and will. The biggest deficit he's had to overcome is 7 points, in the Saints game where we got an INT (not his fault entirely) on his drive and we tied before he got the ball back and the Rams game, where he ended up being down by 10 and we tied (not his fault). I do see that he can play at a deficit and after making a mistake, so those are BIG plusses for me.

It says Kap needs to learn how to better manage the play clock.

This is true, but I thought this last game was skewed. One timeout was due to Walker not knowing the play. One Harbaugh called timeout with around 6 or seconds left.

 

[AdelaideCrows83]

...Show me the stats that back up your assertion that Kaep is better. We already know its not PPG, its not QBR, its not explosive plays, its not protecting the ball, its not W-L % ( which is the most important stat)...

I assume you meant passer rating, not QBR. Kaep has a QBR of 78.1 this year. Smith's QBR is 68.8. Only two QBs have a better QBR this season than Kaep (ignoring players with less than 15 action plays for the year) - Brady and Peyton Manning.
Kaep has a lower turnover rate than Smith, whether fumbles are included or not.
He has a higher net yards per play average than Smith.
Kaep has 5 plays of 40+ yards in 188 action plays (ie passing/rushing). Smith has 4 plays of 40+ yards in 272 action plays.

I'm not saying Kaep is statistically better (yet), but he does have a better QBR, more explosive plays, and is better at protecting the ball compared to Smith's 2012 season. As for W-L, both QBs are winning 75% of their games if we ignore Smith's tie in his start against the Rams.

 

[clyde_carbon]

That simply is not true.

How is it not true? In 2011 we were 29th in the league in passing. This year we're 26th.

 

[MHSL82]

I assume you meant passer rating, not QBR. Kaep has a QBR of 78.1 this year. Smith's QBR is 68.8. Only two QBs have a better QBR this season than Kaep (ignoring players with less than 15 action plays for the year) - Brady and Peyton Manning.
Kaep has a lower turnover rate than Smith, whether fumbles are included or not.
He has a higher net yards per play average than Smith.
Kaep has 5 plays of 40+ yards in 188 action plays (ie passing/rushing). Smith has 4 plays of 40+ yards in 272 action plays.

I'm not saying Kaep is statistically better (yet), but he does have a better QBR, more explosive plays, and is better at protecting the ball compared to Smith's 2012 season. As for W-L, both QBs are winning 75% of their games if we ignore Smith's tie in his start against the Rams.

I dislike the Total QBR thing that ESPN does for many reasons and it equally messes up with all QBs. But, I have to point out to those, not just you, that are using it as support, that it did NOT include the pitch fumble and it DID include the incorrect call of safety in the Rams game. It treated the pitch as an aborted play, not a QB or WR fumble, thus not assigning adequate blame. Then, the safety which was not a safety was given to Kaep, I assume. If one can split blame on a sack, it should be able to remove blame (just give it an incompletion) when the call is wrong. I don't know what the score would be if they exchanged those two plays, removed both, or included both, but when discussing QBR, those definitely are relevant in a small sample size.

After all, it gave Smith a then-record QBR for the Tampa Bay game, after giving him a low on a comeback victory. Skewed both ways.

 

[AdelaideCrows83]

I'm not a big fan of ESPN's QBR either... I was just pointing out that rmilia1's post was inaccurate.

Nor am I saying Kaep is statistically better than Smith this year (it could be argued either way). But when one player has 4 career starts, and the other player is having arguably the best season of his 8 year career, equal production is a huge positive for the young guy. Not to mention the fact that using Kaep can save us 6.5 mil next year, which is almost enough to tag Goldson again if a deal can't be sorted.

 

[wartyOne]

So then according to your run-on sentence is says a great big pile of nothing - Here, allow me to demonstrate.


"They say you are trying to win a SB with a guy with 7 career starts instead of a guy with 7 years of experience that has been through the highs and lows"

It is actually four career starts, but I digress. So, by your logic you would have instructed Mike Shanahan to start Rex Grossman over RGIII in Washington.


"A guy that has already played in HUGE playoff games and won, a guy that has proven he can win in the postseason"

This is redundant, false and another example of selective statistics


"And you are doing it all because the new guy theoretically gives you bigger playmaking ability"

This was never theoretical and has already been proven to be factual.


"Despite the fact that your coach has decided not to run any offense that lets him use that ability"

Kap has already made big plays within the structure of our offense. You seem confused by what defines a "big play".


"And the fact that you absolutely do not even need bigger playmaking ability to win a Super Bowl."

And with this logic we learn that while having bigger playmaking ability is better, having it available when you don't need it is a bad thing.


"It says the stats are the same"

You do realize that Smith is (according to you) a top-ten QB in the league and therefore this statement is a HUGE positive for Kap - right?


"you lost the experience."

So even though we did lose experience, Kap, with MUCH less experience, is playing at the same level or better than Smith. Thus, much like your big play argument, apparently we don't need experience either.


"All to try to gain something you didnt need in the first place"

Kind of like that experience stuff you were talking about - huh.



Here is what an objective observation says:

It says Kap is a threat with his legs that defenses must account for - Smith was not

It says Kap has a measurably stronger arm which gives him the confidence to make throws Smith won't even attempt

It says Kap has as good or better accuracy than Smith

It says Kap is better at throwing on the run than Smith

It says Kap is better at throwing across his body than Smith

It says Kap has better downfield vision from both the pocket and on the run than Smith

It says Kap has measurably better pocket presence than Smith

It says Kaps ability to go through his progressions is measurably better than Smith's

It says Kaps ability to protect the football is as good as or better than Smith's

It says Kaps ability to extend plays is measurably better than Smith's

It says Kaps ability to extend drives is better than Smith's

It says Kaps lack of experience has not cost us in the W/L column.

It says Kaps ability to make bigger plays is not theoretical - it is factual.

It says Kaps ability to play from behind is better than Smith's

It says Kaps ability to overcome his own mistakes is better than Smith's

It says Kaps big play capability in not nearly as limited as Smith's

It says Kap has more confidence in his ability is than Smith has in his.

It says Kaps lack of experience in calling protections is marginalized by his ability to escape the pressure he didn't account for.

It says Kap needs to learn how to better manage the play clock.

In conclusion it simply says that Colin Kaepernick although not as experienced as Alex Smith, is an overall much better athlete and a better to much better QB than Alex Smith.

Oh, and I agree - it is awesome! - Thanks for the Congratulations!

Damn, Bem. That was awesome.

 

[Bemular]

Damn, Bem. That was awesome.

Thanks my Brother. And honestly, I believe not one bit of that list is either false or an exaggeration.

 

[wartyOne]

agree.

"DESPITE Alex Smith" implies he doesn't contribute much, like he is almost in the way. but if you take 2011 and his starts this season, Alex Smith made his contribution in the majority of wins.

yes, there were games he didn't play as well and yes, our D is usually strong. but this doesn't mean Alex Smith didn't contribute.

1 TD and < 200 yards per game as the starting QB implies he doesn't contribute much. This is the era of the QB. Those are bad numbers from the 80's.

Look, we can argue this till we're blue in the face. If you were happy with Smith as our QB, so be it. I think staying with him now benefits nothing.

 

[wartyOne]

Im to tired to write anymore but most of what you put up there^^^ is opinion not backed by any actual facts. It may turn out to be reality but as of this minute its not based in any real truths.

It's not that you're too tired, it's that you just got your ass handed to you, and you have nothing further to offer in this discussion.

 

[wartyOne]

Oh I get that man but you guys are letting Smiths performance 3-5 years ago affect your perspective of how he has played the last year a half. I mean I get that he sucked for a large portion of his career but so did the rest of your team. Do you want to run all of the other guys that were around during your teams struggles out of the starting lineup too??

We already did. Gore never struggled, neither did Davis. Everybody else is gone.

 

[TobyTyler]

How is it not true? In 2011 we were 29th in the league in passing. This year we're 26th.

He did well with what he had to work with (no receivers and an O line that cannot pass block). He protected the ball, did not make mistakes that killed the team and they won 14 games. If we can agree that the QB is the most important player on the field then I'd say he did a fairly good job.