Crazy idea to fix tanking

[gordontrue]

Just had a crazy idea for the draft lottery that could fix tanking.

There's been tons of these, all with different strengths and weaknesses. The biggest problem seems to be that no matter what you do... there is still a way to try and game the system. Unless you just give everyone equal odds... but that makes it very hard for bad teams to get better.

So here's my idea...


Have a Poll. Sports writers, GMs, coaches. Everyone ranks the 30 teams in order of talent. No consideration for what they did with that talent... just how much talent you think they have on their roster. This poll could then serve as either the order for the draft... or the order for lottery odds. (less talented = higher pick / higher odds)

Thoughts?

 

[UK Cowboy]

I have ALWAYS thought the World Champion should get the #1 pick, and work down. I also think a snake draft would be better than rewarding bad teams

 

[Shanemansj13]

I have ALWAYS thought the World Champion should get the #1 pick, and work down. I also think a snake draft would be better than rewarding bad teams

So the rich get richer. Not sure how that would help bad teams improve, there would be so much parity in the league it wouldn't be fun to watch anymore.

I think format should stay but the way they pick the lottery could change a bit. Not sure I would leave it up to the media, coaches, GM, etc...but not a bad idea.

 

[UK Cowboy]

It would solve tanking. As to parity, there's a lot of bad football teams in the NFL. I thought the NFL was at its pinnacle in the 80's and 90's when there were multiple great teams

 

[trojanfan12]

Just had a crazy idea for the draft lottery that could fix tanking.

There's been tons of these, all with different strengths and weaknesses. The biggest problem seems to be that no matter what you do... there is still a way to try and game the system. Unless you just give everyone equal odds... but that makes it very hard for bad teams to get better.

So here's my idea...


Have a Poll. Sports writers, GMs, coaches. Everyone ranks the 30 teams in order of talent. No consideration for what they did with that talent... just how much talent you think they have on their roster. This poll could then serve as either the order for the draft... or the order for lottery odds.

Thoughts?

Couple of problems that I see with this:

1.) It's opinion based rather than record/fact based. One person may have a different opinion of a teams talent than others.

2.) Involving GM's, coaches and even some sportswriters opens up the opportunity for overrating a rivals talent while undervaluing their own. For example, do we really trust Docs evaluation of the Lakers talent? Mitch and Byrons evaluation of the Celtics?

3.) How do you factor in bad trades or guys who were highly rated and end up injured or busts?

True "tanking" is a bit of a myth. Players and coaches don't tank, front offices do with the rosters they put together.

Also, how do you rank a team, for example, like the Lakers? Are you tanking when you have gone after top FA's in the off-season, but missed and are trying to develop a very young roster that just doesn't know how to win at the NBA level yet?

Imo, the simplest fix is to go back to reverse order. Yes, you'll have 2 or 3 teams tank, but that's better than the 8-10 teams in each division, that we have at times with the lottery.

 

[gordontrue]

Couple of problems that I see with this:

1.) It's opinion based rather than record/fact based. One person may have a different opinion of a teams talent than others.

2.) Involving GM's, coaches and even some sportswriters opens up the opportunity for overrating a rivals talent while undervaluing their own. For example, do we really trust Docs evaluation of the Lakers talent? Mitch and Byrons evaluation of the Celtics?

3.) How do you factor in bad trades or guys who were highly rated and end up injured or busts?

True "tanking" is a bit of a myth. Players and coaches don't tank, front offices do with the rosters they put together.

Also, how do you rank a team, for example, like the Lakers? Are you tanking when you have gone after top FA's in the off-season, but missed and are trying to develop a very young roster that just doesn't know how to win at the NBA level yet?

Imo, the simplest fix is to go back to reverse order. Yes, you'll have 2 or 3 teams tank, but that's better than the 8-10 teams in each division, that we have at times with the lottery.

Good points.

1) Yes, that is the weakness. The upside is that it isn't affected by things like someone's best player getting injured... or a team underperforming and getting into the lottery... or a team overperforming. It accounts for everything.

2) Very good point didn't think of that. Would probably want to limit coaches and gms to only vote on teams in the other conference.

3) That is a problem. Some people might have perception as being really great players... hurting the team's draft chances... then turn out to be not very good at all. It is an issue... I guess just one more consequence of finding a bust.

 

[MHSL82]

Couple of problems that I see with this:

1.) It's opinion based rather than record/fact based. One person may have a different opinion of a teams talent than others.

2.) Involving GM's, coaches and even some sportswriters opens up the opportunity for overrating a rivals talent while undervaluing their own. For example, do we really trust Docs evaluation of the Lakers talent? Mitch and Byrons evaluation of the Celtics?

3.) How do you factor in bad trades or guys who were highly rated and end up injured or busts?

True "tanking" is a bit of a myth. Players and coaches don't tank, front offices do with the rosters they put together.

Also, how do you rank a team, for example, like the Lakers? Are you tanking when you have gone after top FA's in the off-season, but missed and are trying to develop a very young roster that just doesn't know how to win at the NBA level yet?

Imo, the simplest fix is to go back to reverse order. Yes, you'll have 2 or 3 teams tank, but that's better than the 8-10 teams in each division, that we have at times with the lottery.

Reverse order? Does that mean the 9th seed (just missed the playoffs) gets the 1st pick and you work down from there? Or are you talking about worst gets first, second worst gets the next, etc.?

I first care about my team winning or my team getting the best pick, a little myopic and biased of me, but honest. Any rule that gets me one of those, I'm happy with (so long as it's ethical, not necessarily fair, but nothing outrageous).

THEN, I care about having more and more great teams, so I wouldn't feel bad if the 9th seed (best team not to make the playoffs) got the 1st pick and so on. I guess that would make the 6-8 seeds tank, but what are we to do?

I know that's not a good solution. I'm just saying that I'm content with a team that is last always being last, so long as it isn't my team. I know, again myopic and biased. I'm the type that doesn't want the hurt the star of the opponent, but if he's to hurt himself, I immediately think of how that is a positive for my team. I don't mope around and say we didn't beat them at their best, as we are rarely at our best healthwise either. (Talking football more than basketball.)

 

[MHSL82]

Media would play favorites, but in the reverse way. The big markets would go from hype over their talent to suddenly having no help and needing the handout.

 

[trojanfan12]

Good points.

1) Yes, that is the weakness. The upside is that it isn't affected by things like someone's best player getting injured... or a team underperforming and getting into the lottery... or a team overperforming. It accounts for everything.

2) Very good point didn't think of that. Would probably want to limit coaches and gms to only vote on teams in the other conference.

3) That is a problem. Some people might have perception as being really great players... hurting the team's draft chances... then turn out to be not very good at all. It is an issue... I guess just one more consequence of finding a bust.

Yeah, it's not necessarily a bad idea. But there would definitely need to be some way to curb potential shenanigans, etc.

One thing that I think should happen is that when teams are constantly in the lottery like, for example, the Clippers for several decades, the league should step in and take a look at wtf is going on. Especially if that team has shown a history of letting top players leave via FA whenever they come up for a bigger contract or trading them away just ahead of that.

 

[trojanfan12]

Reverse order? Does that mean the 9th seed (just missed the playoffs) gets the 1st pick and you work down from there? Or are you talking about worst gets first, second worst gets the next, etc.?

Reverse order is team with the worst record picks first, continuing that way until the team with the best record picks last.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I have ALWAYS thought the World Champion should get the #1 pick, and work down. I also think a snake draft would be better than rewarding bad teams

No. See James Worthy.

 

[lakersrule]

No. See James Worthy.

That's not a good example considering that #1 pick was from Cleveland via trade.

 

[MHSL82]

Reverse order is team with the worst record picks first, continuing that way until the team with the best record picks last.

Thanks, that's the traditional way, but I wasn't sure if you were saying the reverse way of what already is happening in say, the NFL.

 

[tlance]

You have to reward bad teams with top picks. Otherwise bad teams will always be bad. There is no way around that.

Tanking is not really a big problem in he other major sports. The reason it is such an issue in the NBA is because the worst team does not get the first pick. THe lottery system is never going to prevent teams from tanking, but it can actually lengthen the rebuilding process. The 6ers, for example, continue to tank year after year and they have not been able to draft a franchise player because they have never landed the #1 pick.

Also, in the NBA you can't win titles without a superstar player. That makes the importance of the top pick much greater in the NBA.

 

[Robotech]

I have ALWAYS thought the World Champion should get the #1 pick, and work down. I also think a snake draft would be better than rewarding bad teams

A true merit based approach rather than the Socialist way American pro sports leagues reward teams for failure by giving them higher draft picks.

The other thing you can do is just set a rotating draft order. Every team gets a number one pick every 30 years.

 

[Robotech]

In Europe, bad soccer teams get relegated to a lower league. It would be kinda awesome if he could send the Sixers to the D-League.

 

[trojanfan12]

In Europe, bad soccer teams get relegated to a lower league. It would be kinda awesome if he could send the Sixers to the D-League.

Did you feel the same way when the Warriors were where the Sixers are now?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Just had a crazy idea for the draft lottery that could fix tanking.

There's been tons of these, all with different strengths and weaknesses. The biggest problem seems to be that no matter what you do... there is still a way to try and game the system. Unless you just give everyone equal odds... but that makes it very hard for bad teams to get better.

So here's my idea...


Have a Poll. Sports writers, GMs, coaches. Everyone ranks the 30 teams in order of talent. No consideration for what they did with that talent... just how much talent you think they have on their roster. This poll could then serve as either the order for the draft... or the order for lottery odds. (less talented = higher pick / higher odds)

Thoughts?

CFB has panel determine the 4 best teams.
No reason that an unbiased, knowledgeable panel couldn't at least rank the 4 worst.
Then, take those 4, let an evenly weighted lotto determine who picks 1-4, then the rest of the draft goes based on worst record.

 

[Robotech]

Did you feel the same way when the Warriors were where the Sixers are now?

I meant that as a joke, but regarding your qustion, I never thought much about tanking until the Sixers brought so much attention to it. If the Warriors were so bad and someone joked that they shouldn't be in the NBA, I would probably laugh and agree.

Also, I'm not sure that any team has ever been where the Sixers are now. After all, they did set a North American record for consecutive losses by a major pro sports team.

 

[Robotech]

CFB has panel determine the 4 best teams.
No reason that an unbiased, knowledgeable panel couldn't at least rank the 4 worst.

Then, take those 4, let an evenly weighted lotto determine who picks 1-4, then the rest of the draft goes based on worst record.

No way we should leave it up to a poll or ranking. The beauty of pro sports is that we don't have polls or rankings and that things are settled on the field.