Crazy idea to fix tanking

[ducky]

Per usual: Everything I read in a thread about how to stop tanking is absolutely idiotic.

Although the one that takes the cake is having the team who wins the NBA title get the #1 overall pick.

 

[tducey]

I've always been a fan of a round robin tournament at season's end to determine the #1 picks. It might result in some poor basketball but at least you'd have the worst teams competing for something instead of a lottery determining the 1st overall pick.

 

[CitySushi]

I don't think there's a real way to fully eliminate tanking, but here would be my best shot at it:

The Draft no longer uses a lottery system. The Draft would be conducted with the worst record picking first, all the way to the championship team picking 30th.

Here's my change on it. The teams with the top 5 worst finishing records, all have their second round picks, swapped to the end of the draft in reverse order. This would be how it would works

1st Round
#1 Pick - Sixers
#2 Pick - Lakers
#3 Pick - Suns
#4 Pick - Nets
#5 Pick - TWolves
#6 Pick - Nuggets
....
29th Pick - Cavs
30th Pick - Warriors

2nd Round
31st Pick - Nuggets
....

54th Pick - Cavs
55th Pick - Warriors
56th Pick - Twolves
57th Pick - Nets
58th Pick - Suns
59th Pick - Lakers
60th Pick - Sixers


This would accomplish a few things. This would incentivize teams at the bottom to compete harder to get a better record otherwise they essentially lose their back end 1st round draft picks. It would also decrease the value of their 2nd round picks, which penalizes them an asset for having such a shitty record. Teams in the 4-8 range would all be competing extra hard to avoid losing their higher draft status in the second round. Teams above 8 would likely be the ones who are competing for a playoff spot.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

its a ridiculously dumb idea that would never ever ever happen in American sports. There are so many obstacles its insane- not to mention- it would involve adding markets that are not as big as the current markets....ya--- we want the Canton Charge to get added to the top level. DUMB.

Yeah dumb how it works for the most popular sport in the world. How dare they give the 'little guys' a chance

 

[LAD]

I have ALWAYS thought the World Champion should get the #1 pick, and work down. I also think a snake draft would be better than rewarding bad teams

Exactly. This way every team is now motivated to win.

 

[LAD]

Did you feel the same way when the Warriors were where the Sixers are now?

I get that your sensitive about this issue- most of us Laker fans are.

 

[tlance]

Exactly. This way every team is now motivated to win.

No!

Every team is already motivated to win. The problem is, at the start of any given season, 85% of the team's know they have no realistic chance. Giving the top picks to the champs sure takes away incentive to tank, but it also ensures teams who suck will continue to do so with very little hope for the future. Championship teams already attract the best free agents, now you want to give them the rookies too?

 

[CitySushi]

No!

Every team is already motivated to win. The problem is, at the start of any given season, 85% of the team's know they have no realistic chance. Giving the top picks to the champs sure takes away incentive to tank, but it also ensures teams who suck will continue to do so with very little hope for the future. Championship teams already attract the best free agents, now you want to give them the rookies too?

100% agree.

The reason the draft exists in the first place is to create parity. If you gave the top teams in the NBA first crack at the best players, you would have a handful of teams who were always at the top. You would have small markets teams never have a chance to build a roster. This current Warrior team we have now, would not exist.

Here are the driving factors for most teams:

1) Championship contenders. Usually 6-8 teams who have a reasonable shot on a given year to win a championship. Their motivation is self driving.
2) Playoff teams. 8-10 teams who vie for a playoff spot seeking legitimacy and/or additional exposure and playoff revenue. They'll be a piece or two away from competing at the highest level.
3) Looking to break through teams. Usually about 8 teams or so that are looking to turn a corner as a franchise. Usually you'll see teams in this bracket want to develop their young talent while also trying to create a winning culture. It's a delicate balance, but they're looking to compete.
4) Bottom Dwellers. 6 teams or so that will makeup the leagues worst. Those are the teams in most need of a franchise player. One Franchise player can turn around an entire decade for a team.

 

[johnson]

Just had a crazy idea for the draft lottery that could fix tanking.

There's been tons of these, all with different strengths and weaknesses. The biggest problem seems to be that no matter what you do... there is still a way to try and game the system. Unless you just give everyone equal odds... but that makes it very hard for bad teams to get better.

So here's my idea...


Have a Poll. Sports writers, GMs, coaches. Everyone ranks the 30 teams in order of talent. No consideration for what they did with that talent... just how much talent you think they have on their roster. This poll could then serve as either the order for the draft... or the order for lottery odds. (less talented = higher pick / higher odds)

Thoughts?

Hate it for the order of the draft.

Order of the lottery...it's a little more interesting. Sports writers have biases though and it'd be hard for most of them not to bring those to the table in this situation. How many teams do you think are tanking this year? Philly seems to have made a tradition of it (they are like the Edmonton Oilers of the NBA)

 

[UK Cowboy]

No!

Every team is already motivated to win. The problem is, at the start of any given season, 85% of the team's know they have no realistic chance. Giving the top picks to the champs sure takes away incentive to tank, but it also ensures teams who suck will continue to do so with very little hope for the future. Championship teams already attract the best free agents, now you want to give them the rookies too?

Then hire better front office people. For the last 10 years, Cleveland has picked in the top 5-10 year in, year out. In that same time frame, the Patriots have picked 28-32 in each round nearly every year. Who's has the better drafts?

 

[tlance]

Then hire better front office people. For the last 10 years, Cleveland has picked in the top 5-10 year in, year out. In that same time frame, the Patriots have picked 28-32 in each round nearly every year. Who's has the better drafts?

It is really foolish to compare the NBA to the NFL.

1 player can completely change a franchise in the NBA. Put LeBron on the 6ers and they are a 45- 50 win team.

 

[trojanfan12]

I get that your sensitive about this issue- most of us Laker fans are.

Why would I be sensitive about that?

 

[podsox]

best idea is to give every team in the lottery the same amount of balls.

 

[wildturkey]

Yeah dumb how it works for the most popular sport in the world. How dare they give the 'little guys' a chance

I think he's more referring to the fact that it would be dumb to do it in American sports because American sports are all set up as a socialist model. There are franchises, everyone is a partner. In soccer throughout the world, the regulation system works because its a far more capitalistic model. Teams aren't franchises, they are independent businesses that belong to a confederation. The teams generate their own revenue, etc etc. Since its independant, its easy to do regulation system. If I want to be good, I spend my money to get good and I reap the benefits. You couldn't institute that system into any American sport now without tearing down literally every single aspect of how the sport is structured. That's a gargantuan task that would take billions of dollars to do. And that's not mentioning the fact that team owners would have to willingly give up GUARANTEED profits to enter into that free market structure where profits are fluctuating. It's just too ingrained to even attempt.

 

[CitySushi]

Came up with another possible solution to the Tanking:

1) Have an end of season NCAA style tournament for the 8 lottery teams with the best records. Bottom 6 teams with the worst records are not allowed to participate.

2) Winner of the tournament gets the #1 overall selection.

3) The 2-7 picks would go to the teams with the worst 6 records. This would be completed by an unweighted lottery. (i.e. the worst record has just as good of a shot at getting the #2 pick as the 6th worst record).

4) For those competing in the tournament, the draft order is rounded out by best showing in the tournament. Runner up would get the 8th pick, and so forth. Teams that did not advance would be separated by tie breaker, with the worst record picking first. So if its the 4 teams that lost in the first round, the team with the worst record would get the 10th pick, and so forth.

This would eliminate tanking because the teams with the worst record know that they have no shot at the 1st pick. It would also help eliminate tanking because their odds are weighted the exact same for the 2-7 draft positions.

Teams in the middle of the pack would be trying to win games to get into the tournament to try for that 1st overall pick. Also they know they can try to go for as many wins as possible because the 6th worst record is weighted just as much as the 1st.

By giving the 1st overall pick to one of the 8 better lottery records, it creates immediate parity in the league and boosts more competitive teams.

Also it incentivizes the worst teams to get better faster, to try to compete for that 1st pick.

 

[tlance]

Came up with another possible solution to the Tanking:

1) Have an end of season NCAA style tournament for the 8 lottery teams with the best records. Bottom 6 teams with the worst records are not allowed to participate.

2) Winner of the tournament gets the #1 overall selection.

3) The 2-7 picks would go to the teams with the worst 6 records. This would be completed by an unweighted lottery. (i.e. the worst record has just as good of a shot at getting the #2 pick as the 6th worst record).

4) For those competing in the tournament, the draft order is rounded out by best showing in the tournament. Runner up would get the 8th pick, and so forth. Teams that did not advance would be separated by tie breaker, with the worst record picking first. So if its the 4 teams that lost in the first round, the team with the worst record would get the 10th pick, and so forth.

This would eliminate tanking because the teams with the worst record know that they have no shot at the 1st pick. It would also help eliminate tanking because their odds are weighted the exact same for the 2-7 draft positions.

Teams in the middle of the pack would be trying to win games to get into the tournament to try for that 1st overall pick. Also they know they can try to go for as many wins as possible because the 6th worst record is weighted just as much as the 1st.

By giving the 1st overall pick to one of the 8 better lottery records, it creates immediate parity in the league and boosts more competitive teams.

Also it incentivizes the worst teams to get better faster, to try to compete for that 1st pick.

That is an interesting idea. I think what would end up happening in that scenario, however, is that teams between 6-10 in each conference would be tanking like crazy. Getting the 8th seed in the playoffs would then be really bad. Had the Rockets missed in the playoffs, they would be in prime position to land the #1 pick. Since they are likely to get swept by the dubs anyway, this would incentivize bottom tier playoff teams to try to miss.

Tanking will always be an issue in the NBA because of the power of a superstar player. Single players can't influence an entire team in other sports the way they can in basketball. No matter what rules are in place to determine he top pick, teams will try to rig their position in the standings to land it.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

I have ALWAYS thought the World Champion should get the #1 pick, and work down. I also think a snake draft would be better than rewarding bad teams

What? So some team wins the title and gets to draft Shaq (Hypothetical)

 

[Rockinkuwait]

That is an interesting idea. I think what would end up happening in that scenario, however, is that teams between 6-10 in each conference would be tanking like crazy. Getting the 8th seed in the playoffs would then be really bad. Had the Rockets missed in the playoffs, they would be in prime position to land the #1 pick. Since they are likely to get swept by the dubs anyway, this would incentivize bottom tier playoff teams to try to miss.

Tanking will always be an issue in the NBA because of the power of a superstar player. Single players can't influence an entire team in other sports the way they can in basketball. No matter what rules are in place to determine he top pick, teams will try to rig their position in the standings to land it.

Yeah, like you say, why shouldn't Houston just shut it down a couple weeks before the playoffs and get in that tourney?

And those teams that have a major injury that are good teams but not great with that player out would be the best beneficiaries. Think OKC last year being the top team with a shot at the #1 overall pick. Then getting Durant back AND Karl Anthony Towns.

Plus I really don't have a problem with a team who's out of the playoff chase, sending a guy out for surgery in the hope they have him at 100% for the start of the next season rather than worry he'll miss a lot of the off-season and still be rehabbing at the start of the following year.



The only one I thought was neat was having a cutoff, like say when you are 8 games out of the 8th seed or mathematically eliminated, have to decide this... where then every win after that point counts towards improving your draft position.

So say that's Philly 40 games in, they have 42 games to win. They go 6-36 they have 6 wins.
But the Knicks fall out with 20 games left, and go 7-13 there, they have the better draft pick.

Jazz only have 2 games, but go 1-1 they have one of the worst picks of the non-playoff teams.

It doesn't really solve tanking, but pushes it earlier in the year, and at the end of the reg season when basketball at least for me is getting more fun to watch, everyone is fighting for wins, those mathematically out are fighting to improve their draft stock, those in are fighting to improve their playoff position, and the fringe teams aren't trying to tank out of the playoffs, because they will still end up picking at the back of the non-playoff teams.

But again, you are pushing teams without a playoff hope to keep pushing their guys who may need a surgery or rehab.