Cowherd: just admit you're critical of Lebron because you're worried he's better than Jordan

[True Lakers Fan]

Like the rest of us, you've completely forgotten his Wizards days. Can't say I blame you.

No, he was horrible in his Wizards day - but I really don't think they should count even though they are included in his career averages. My rationale is it came three years after he retired and clearly he wasn't the same player at that age. For the rest of his career from start to finish, his numbers were better than Lebron has been in comparison to the same years in the league. What really defines and separates these two players is six championships. If LeBron can get two more titles - then you have an argument.

 

[msgkings322]

No, he was horrible in his Wizards day - but I really don't think they should count even though they are included in his career averages. My rationale is it came three years after he retired and clearly he wasn't the same player at that age. For the rest of his career from start to finish, his numbers were better than Lebron has been in comparison to the same years in the league. What really defines and separates these two players is six championships. If LeBron can get two more titles - then you have an argument.

I wasn't making any argument, just reminding you.

I don't think LeBron has had a better career than Jordan, but he's in striking distance. Yes he will need to win another ring or likely two

 

[True Lakers Fan]

I wasn't making any argument, just reminding you.

I don't think LeBron has had a better career than Jordan, but he's in striking distance. Yes he will need to win another ring or likely two

I can agree on striking distance, but I don't agree on calling LeBron the G.O.A.T. - He hasn't earned that and quite frankly I still place Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul Jabaar and Magic Johnson over LeBron and as much as I hated the Celtics, Larry Bird, and few of those guys were awesome. I also think Shaq Oneal should be in that conversation. No one dominated more than O'neal. Just to be in their presence as one of the top ten is something I think LeBron should be greatful for and not being trying to piss on it by calling himself the greatest of all time.

 

[msgkings322]

I can agree on striking distance, but I don't agree on calling LeBron the G.O.A.T. - He hasn't earned that and quite frankly I still place Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul Jabaar and Magic Johnson over LeBron and as much as I hated the Celtics, Larry Bird, and few of those guys were awesome. I also think Shaq Oneal should be in that conversation. No one dominated more than O'neal. Just to be in their presence as one of the top ten is something I think LeBron should be greatful for and not being trying to piss on it by calling himself the greatest of all time.

No one says LeBron is GOAT, yet. At least no one with half a brain. And he may never get there.

But LeBron has already passed Kobe no question, and really Bird too. And Shaq.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

No one says LeBron is GOAT, yet. At least no one with half a brain. And he may never get there.

So you're saying that LebronJames23 doesn't have a half a brain - LOL. I will not argue that one

 

[msgkings322]

So you're saying that LebronJames23 doesn't have a half a brain - LOL. I will not argue that one

Yeah he takes his shit way too far. But it's sports, he's a fan, let him talk.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Yeah he takes his shit way too far. But it's sports, he's a fan, let him talk.

For me, I don't think there really is a greatest of all time. It's a team sport and the team that plays together from the first player to the tenth is the team that wins. Shaq would have only 3 titles if it wasn't for Robert Horry. Everyone's title depended on small players and great players. I actually was surprised though when I compared LeBron's stats to Jordan's year by year. When you compare 1st year of each down to the last - Clearly Michael was better until the Washington Wizards fiasco. I will say this though: I do think LeBron could have been much more with some adjustments to his career. Kobe and Shaq as well allowed their ego's to get in their way

 

[msgkings322]

For me, I don't think there really is a greatest of all time. It's a team sport and the team that plays together from the first player to the tenth is the team that wins. Shaq would have only 3 titles if it wasn't for Robert Horry. Everyone's title depended on small players and great players. I actually was surprised though when I compared LeBron's stats to Jordan's year by year. When you compare 1st year of each down to the last - Clearly Michael was better until the Washington Wizards fiasco. I will say this though: I do think LeBron could have been much more with some adjustments to his career. Kobe and Shaq as well allowed their ego's to get in their way

Yes this is basically correct. Part of the fun of sports is all the arguing about it, who's best, who coulda beat who, etc. We all get to pick sides and who we argue for shows what we value in the game. But there's no 'right answer', you can't 'prove' someone is better than another guy. There are tiers, there are obviously a bunch of guys in the conversation for GOAT, but you can't really definitively say 'oh this guy is #3 and this other guy is #4' but it's fun to do it anyway.

LeBron 'could have been much more'? Dude's still in his prime being much more LOL...

Shaq for sure had the talent but not the drive. If he had taken his game and conditioning seriously he could have been top 3 all time but he really only had 3-4 years of total monster dominance. Could have been 7-8.

And yes titles depend on small things and luck. If Irving misses that shot, if Curry doesn't make that behind the back pass, etc. Utah could have won one of those finals vs the Bulls, then we think of Malone and Stockton differently. Are they really any better players if MJ misses that last shot and Utah wins the 1998 title? Is Jordan any worse being 5-1 in the finals?

 

[tlance]

I will have to retract this statement - Michael Jordan averaged 28 ppg, 6.5 RPG and 5.5 APG to Lebron's average was 20.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg and 5.9 apg

Second year was strange - Michael only played 18 games

Third year

Michael 37 ppg, 5.2 rpg and 4.6 apg
James 31 ppg, 7 rpg and 6.6 apg

In fact year by year Michael was higher in points per game, rebounds per game and assists, same thing for fg% and ft%. The 3 point shot bounced around for Michael and in fact his career averages are brought down only by those last two years he played for the Wizards. Year to year in his prime, Michael in his prime has better numbers than LeBron

Nothing strange about Jordan only playing 18 games.

He broke his leg early in the season. That was also the year he hung 63 on the Celtics in the playoffs.

Also, I am not sure how MJ's stats are "definitely better". They are pretty comparable really. But, it is impossible to compare eras because there were many variables around how they accumulated those stats and their impact on winning.

 

[trojanfan12]

No one says LeBron is GOAT, yet. At least no one with half a brain. And he may never get there.

He won't. Rings are the tiebreaker and I just don't see him getting to 6.

But LeBron has already passed Kobe no question, and really Bird too. And Shaq.

At this point, it's about where he stacks up with MJ, Magic and Kareem. Right now, I have it:

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Lebron

Lebron needs 1 and maybe 2 more rings to catch and pass Magic. He needs 2-3 more rings and longevity to catch and pass Kareem. MJ is unattainable, imo.

 

[tlance]

He won't. Rings are the tiebreaker and I just don't see him getting to 6.



At this point, it's about where he stacks up with MJ, Magic and Kareem. Right now, I have it:

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Lebron

Lebron needs 1 and maybe 2 more rings to catch and pass Magic. He needs 2-3 more rings and longevity to catch and pass Kareem. MJ is unattainable, imo.

See, here is why the ring argument is flawed.

If Magic and Kareem are both top 3 overall players, why did they only win 5 together? 5 is a lot, but if they are both that good, they should have won at least that many. Yet, we are using ring count to say they are better than LeBron?

If LBJ wins a ring this year against a Warrior team that boasts two top 4 players in the league + 2 more All stars, then he absolutely passes both Magic and Kareem and deserves to be in the conversation with Jordan.

If rings are tie breakers, that is okay. But, if LeBron wins it this year I will say he isn't tied with Magic and Kareem anymore.

 

[Shanemansj13]

He won't. Rings are the tiebreaker and I just don't see him getting to 6.



At this point, it's about where he stacks up with MJ, Magic and Kareem. Right now, I have it:

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Lebron

Lebron needs 1 and maybe 2 more rings to catch and pass Magic. He needs 2-3 more rings and longevity to catch and pass Kareem. MJ is unattainable, imo.

While rings matter in the end I think one more title and longevity would pass Magic and Kareem's career. I mean the top 2, 3 players played with each other. Not a fair comparision to just use the rings argument. It makes no sense IMO

 

[Shanemansj13]

See, here is why the ring argument is flawed.

If Magic and Kareem are both top 3 overall players, why did they only win 5 together? 5 is a lot, but if they are both that good, they should have won at least that many. Yet, we are using ring count to say they are better than LeBron?

If LBJ wins a ring this year against a Warrior team that boasts two top 4 players in the league + 2 more All stars, then he absolutely passes both Magic and Kareem and deserves to be in the conversation with Jordan.

If rings are tie breakers, that is okay. But, if LeBron wins it this year I will say he isn't tied with Magic and Kareem anymore.

I agree. If he wins this year back-to-back against a historically great Warrior team and this one is even greater that would be two amazing titles better than really any resume can boast

 

[lebron23james]

See, here is why the ring argument is flawed.

If Magic and Kareem are both top 3 overall players, why did they only win 5 together? 5 is a lot, but if they are both that good, they should have won at least that many. Yet, we are using ring count to say they are better than LeBron?

If LBJ wins a ring this year against a Warrior team that boasts two top 4 players in the league + 2 more All stars, then he absolutely passes both Magic and Kareem and deserves to be in the conversation with Jordan.

If rings are tie breakers, that is okay. But, if LeBron wins it this year I will say he isn't tied with Magic and Kareem anymore.

Rings matter, but they shouldn't.

Lebron is going to be the best player on the court in the finals again win or lose, and his status in some people's ranking depends on how the other players play...why should how other players play rank how good you are as a player?

 

[lebron23james]

While rings matter in the end I think one more title and longevity would pass Magic and Kareem's career. I mean the top 2, 3 players played with each other. Not a fair comparision to just use the rings argument. It makes no sense IMO

Lets not bring context to the ring argument lol

I think lebron needs 4-5 in order to pass MJ, he doesn't need 6 because he is going to pass him in almost everything else.

For one he already has the better overall stats, more rebounding per game, assists, better fg% better 3pt%, etc...he is going to pass him in all time points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals...IMO that stuff counts as well.

He is 1 of the only players in the nba ever to lead both teams in a finals in points, rebounds, assists and blocks...

This years GS team ranks better than any bulls team in history even the 96 bulls...So this one would be a big one if lebron can pull it off.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Lets not bring context to the ring argument lol

I think lebron needs 4-5 in order to pass MJ, he doesn't need 6 because he is going to pass him in almost everything else.

For one he already has the better overall stats, more rebounding per game, assists, better fg% better 3pt%, etc...he is going to pass him in all time points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals...IMO that stuff counts as well.

He is 1 of the only players in the nba ever to lead both teams in a finals in points, rebounds, assists and blocks...

This years GS team ranks better than any bulls team in history even the 96 bulls...So this one would be a big one if lebron can pull it off.

Last years Warriors team was better than any opponent MJ faced in the Finals, now they added a top 3 player. If he somehow manages to beat this GS team, those 4 rings are looking pretty good to any resume EVER

 

[SJ76]

Last years Warriors team was better than any opponent MJ faced in the Finals, now they added a top 3 player. If he somehow manages to beat this GS team, those 4 rings are looking pretty good to any resume EVER

Yeah the Warriors were so good that they couldn't even get 1 bucket in the last 4 minutes in game 7.

Impressive choke job up 3-1 as well

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah the Warriors were so good that they couldn't even get 1 bucket in the last 4 minutes in game 7.

Impressive choke job up 3-1 as well

Yeah 4 minutes totally is the entire season They were better than any opponent the Bulls faced in the Finals ever. I think anyone can agree with this except you apparently lol

 

[SJ76]

Yeah 4 minutes totally is the entire season They were better than any opponent the Bulls faced in the Finals ever. I think anyone can agree with this except you apparently lol

OK so the last 4 minutes of game 7 mean nothing. Got it

What a homer

 

[SJ76]

It hurts so bad here come the rainbows

The Warriors were so good. up 3-1 and couldn't even get 1 bucket in the last 4 minutes on the biggest stage


not one bucket