Cowherd: just admit you're critical of Lebron because you're worried he's better than Jordan

[SJ76]

I love stat geeks.


The eye test?

Let's forget all about the last 4 minutes of game 7 last year. 1 FG and that was a heave by Kyrie.

Defense was good like it usually is in the finals but it wasn't that good.

Shot selection? Lmao


Bball IQ


Now how can 2 teams so much better than that of 20 years ago get 1 FG in the last 4+ of the ultimate deciding game 7?

Pressure? I know a guy that was pretty good under pressure.

 

[SJ76]

Pillow fight.

2016 Game 7: The Final Three and a Half Minutes - NBA.com


Helluva block by Lebron at the 1:49 mark but what a pathetic display of offense for both teams. And game 7?

 

[Black Adam]

Pillow fight.

2016 Game 7: The Final Three and a Half Minutes - NBA.com


Helluva block by Lebron at the 1:49 mark but what a pathetic display of offense for both teams. And game 7?

lol, man. LeClown groupies ain't giving up on this one. logic and common sense obviously doesn't matter to 'em...

 

[tlance]

lol, man. LeClown groupies ain't giving up on this one. logic and common sense obviously doesn't matter to 'em...

It is not about LeBron for me. It is about people clinging to the notion that the old days are superior when literally every professional field has progressed over the last 20 years.

You can't ever win the argument on which player is better. MJ was better against his peers than LeBron is against his. That is the only thing that is certain. Comparing players across eras is very difficult.

But, make no mistake, the modern era of NBA basketball is as good/better than any. Only the Lakers/Celtics 80s can compete with today IMO. 90s was trashy basketball and it took the league almost a decade to recover from it. If not for Jordan's star power the league would have lost a lot of viewers.

 

[Wamu]

It is not about LeBron for me. It is about people clinging to the notion that the old days are superior when literally every professional field has progressed over the last 20 years.

You can't ever win the argument on which player is better. MJ was better against his peers than LeBron is against his. That is the only thing that is certain. Comparing players across eras is very difficult.

But, make no mistake, the modern era of NBA basketball is as good/better than any. Only the Lakers/Celtics 80s can compete with today IMO. 90s was trashy basketball and it took the league almost a decade to recover from it. If not for Jordan's star power the league would have lost a lot of viewers.

If using the rules from back in the day I think the Bad Boys from Detroit would have slapped alotta the teams of today around.

 

[tlance]

If using the rules from back in the day I think the Bad Boys from Detroit would have slapped alotta the teams of today around.

Possibly true, but those rules were garbage.

Basketball is supposed to be a beautiful game with some of the best athletes in the world displaying their grace and skill. The Pistons/Knicks/Pacers brought all that to a screeching halt and tried to turn the league into WWE.

The game is plenty physical today. In the 90s there were times they were not even playing basketball.

 

[trojanfan12]

Possibly true, but those rules were garbage.

Basketball is supposed to be a beautiful game with some of the best athletes in the world displaying their grace and skill. The Pistons/Knicks/Pacers brought all that to a screeching halt and tried to turn the league into WWE.

The game is plenty physical today. In the 90s there were times they were not even playing basketball.

Translation = Any era that plays a style of basketball that I don't approve of is garbage.

 

[tlance]

Translation = Any era that plays a style of basketball that I don't approve of is garbage.

No. The 90s specifically.

There was no true rival for the Bulls, so less talented teams attempted to beat the crap out them physically because it was the only way to keep it close. That is a basic summary of the East playoffs for most of the decade.

 

[Wamu]

Translation = Any era that plays a style of basketball that I don't approve of is garbage.

Well I don't approve of the Showtime Lakers. I know they cheated! Just don't ask for proof.

 

[lebron23james]

No. The 90s specifically.

There was no true rival for the Bulls, so less talented teams attempted to beat the crap out them physically because it was the only way to keep it close. That is a basic summary of the East playoffs for most of the decade.

The teams jordan faced was equivalent to the talent lebron faced in the east. There is a reason lebron has been to the finals 6 times in a row and made 7. Same reason Jordan was 6-0 in the finals...Talent was terrible, just it was the entire league vs just the east in lebrons case.

There was no 73 win super team waiting for the bulls or a dynasty spurs, just an old last year magic johnson and some scrub teams that never won rings.

Not to mention Jordone had a team that could win 55 games without him, it's funny because before pippen and a great team jordan couldn't even get past the 2nd round while lerbon made it to the finals

 

[trojanfan12]

No. The 90s specifically.

There was no true rival for the Bulls, so less talented teams attempted to beat the crap out them physically because it was the only way to keep it close. That is a basic summary of the East playoffs for most of the decade.

Not really. The physical stuff on MJ started before the Bulls began their run. The Bad Boys actually used it to get past the "not yet dynastic Bulls" and the Celtics to get to the finals where they used it to take the Lakers to 7 games 1 season and then beat them the next.

Other teams, especially in the East, then picked it up and started using it.

I've enjoyed every era of basketball and all of the changes to one degree or another.

The 80's was my favorite because, imo, it was the perfect mix of physicality and finesse. The 90's was "brute force basketball" which had it's own brand of excitement and fun. But I do agree, it was too physical.

Today's brand is fun, but I would like to see it become closer to 80's style where there was still room for physical play.

 

[tlance]

Not really. The physical stuff on MJ started before the Bulls began their run. The Bad Boys actually used it to get past the "not yet dynastic Bulls" and the Celtics to get to the finals where they used it to take the Lakers to 7 games 1 season and then beat them the next.

Other teams, especially in the East, then picked it up and started using it.

I've enjoyed every era of basketball and all of the changes to one degree or another.

The 80's was my favorite because, imo, it was the perfect mix of physicality and finesse. The 90's was "brute force basketball" which had it's own brand of excitement and fun. But I do agree, it was too physical.

Today's brand is fun, but I would like to see it become closer to 80's style where there was still room for physical play.

See, the Pistons were dirty as hell and I hated them, but they at least had a ton of skill also. They were the bridge to the ugly 90s.

The teams who tried to copy them though? The Knicks were brutal to watch. As much as I liked Reggie Miller, the Pacers were pretty rough also.

I think there is more physicality in the league today than people give credit for, just zero tolerance for non-basketball plays. I am perfectly fine with that, although some of the flagrants that get called today are way too soft. Especially in the college game.

 

[larryjohn]

Looks like Lebron leads in most categories, of course other than the rings. First-team defense and no doubt MJ was better an overall scorer. Lebron a better passer and rebounder.

But also -- Jordan was a great leader and after the mid-point in his career and his first championship -- Jordan's teams always showed up in the playoffs with an edge ready to win.

If the Cavs don't at least make the finals this year -- this season will be a disappointment and Lebron shares a lot of the blame. (or at least -- I can never remember Jordan's teams being this flat going into the playoffs)

 

[trojanfan12]

See, the Pistons were dirty as hell and I hated them, but they at least had a ton of skill also. They were the bridge to the ugly 90s.

The teams who tried to copy them though? The Knicks were brutal to watch. As much as I liked Reggie Miller, the Pacers were pretty rough also.

I think there is more physicality in the league today than people give credit for, just zero tolerance for non-basketball plays. I am perfectly fine with that, although some of the flagrants that get called today are way too soft. Especially in the college game.

Yeah, those Pistons were nasty, no doubt. Like I said, I enjoyed the 90's too. The violence was pretty fun too watch. I agree that it went too far. But I like each era for what it was. The 80's was my favorite era, the 90's and present day are kind of equal for me. Neither has the balance of finesse and physicality that the 80's had.

I disagree on the game being more physical than it gets credit for. The flopping just makes it look that way. lol

 

[tlance]

Yeah, those Pistons were nasty, no doubt. Like I said, I enjoyed the 90's too. The violence was pretty fun too watch. I agree that it went too far. But I like each era for what it was. The 80's was my favorite era, the 90's and present day are kind of equal for me. Neither has the balance of finesse and physicality that the 80's had.

I disagree on the game being more physical than it gets credit for. The flopping just makes it look that way. lol

I am not taking about flopping. I am talking about incidental contact that players must play through during the course of a game. One thing I think today's officials have gotten pretty good at is letting that stuff go. that has not always been the case.

 

[gordontrue]

But also -- Jordan was a great leader and after the mid-point in his career and his first championship -- Jordan's teams always showed up in the playoffs with an edge ready to win.

If the Cavs don't at least make the finals this year -- this season will be a disappointment and Lebron shares a lot of the blame. (or at least -- I can never remember Jordan's teams being this flat going into the playoffs)

I mean, you would say the same thing about LeBron, right? Look at the last 6 years.

 

[larryjohn]

I mean, you would say the same thing about LeBron, right? Look at the last 6 years.

Yup -- Lebron's teams have been solid every year in the playoffs. But -- I feel like the Cavs think they will be able to turn the switch after the playoffs start and suddenly become a good defensive team. I think that is risky to count on. (but I hope it happens -- mainly because it would setup a good Finals matchup vs; Ws or Spurs)

 

[tlance]

But also -- Jordan was a great leader and after the mid-point in his career and his first championship -- Jordan's teams always showed up in the playoffs with an edge ready to win.

If the Cavs don't at least make the finals this year -- this season will be a disappointment and Lebron shares a lot of the blame. (or at least -- I can never remember Jordan's teams being this flat going into the playoffs)

Flat, no. But they sure did coast through the regular season a couple years. the 72 win season they were out for blood. Most of the others they certainly had stretches where they were unfocused. Never like this though.

 

[gordontrue]

I feel like the Cavs think they will be able to turn the switch after the playoffs start and suddenly become a good defensive team. I think that is risky to count on.

Oh, definitely. Exactly my worry. I don't think LeBron thinks that at all. But I worry the other guys might think that.

 

[trojanfan12]

I am not taking about flopping. I am talking about incidental contact that players must play through during the course of a game. One thing I think today's officials have gotten pretty good at is letting that stuff go. that has not always been the case.

I don't consider incidental contact to be an indicator of how physical the play is. It's incidental contact and by definition isn't intentionally physical. I do agree though that the refs appear to be starting to do a better job of letting incidental stuff go.