Clippers/Hornets discussing Lance Stephenson trade

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

The Clippers are out of their minds if they don't do this. They are basically giving up crap for a guy who has the talent to help them and can be gone in 2 years if he doesn't. Plus, they'd only be paying him $9 million per year. If the Hornets are still willing to throw in the #8 pick, it's really a no-brainer.

Imagine what may have happened in this past seasons playoffs if they'd have had Lance to throw at The Beard.

yES!

We were just talking about this yesterday.

 

[trojanfan12]

yES!

We were just talking about this yesterday.

It's the Clippers. So he'll probably suffer a serious knee injury or end up going Ron Artest level cray cray, but they need to do it asap anyway.

 

[Hitman Hart]

Barnes was pretty good for them all last year but he's getting old. He's getting pretty darn close to E on the tank. This would be a great deal for them because you're getting a guy in Stephenson who should at least in theory, give you exactly what Barnes did with the possibility of much more. Plus it unloads Hawes awful deal which should free up a tiny sliver of space to find a suitable veteran big to fill out the bench.

But if I'm Charlotte, I'm holding out seeing if I can get better offers elsewhere. They probably can't but still. I'm waiting as long as I can

The Hornets have been trying to trade Stephenson since January. They just simply weren't going to get any good offers for him.

Stephenson was historically bad last year. That doesn't reflect his talent, it just reflects the situation that was in Charlotte last year. It was best for both parties to move on.

The Hornets were very determined to get Lance Stephenson off their roster.

 

[Retroram52]

It's a done deal. Now the hornets are deciding whether they want to keep Barnes. They got Hawes but Barnes apparently is too expensive or who knows why they are trying to decide whether to keep him or not.

Report: Hornets unlikely to keep newly-acquired Matt Barnes | ProBasketballTalk

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

I take a dissenting position from the popular name recognition of Stephenson.
The Clippers really needed more bodies and cap relief.

I am not sure giving up two players and getting further into salary cap hell is a wise decision.
I would have tried to fix Hawes and kept Barnes.
Hawes was a pretty good player up until last season.

Now they have 1 player instead of 2, and even slightly less cap space than the dire position beforehand.
There is just no way they can beat multiple deep teams in the West in a row by getting thinner.

OKC, Houston, SA, and GS will all have far more depth next season.
The Clips simply cannot beat all them in a row with zero depth.

And if Jordan leaves, it makes things even worse as Hawes can in theory play the Centerman spot a bit.
They must have a rock solid commitment from Jordan...or this is a beyond risky move with only medium upside.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

It's the Clippers. So he'll probably suffer a serious knee injury or end up going Ron Artest level cray cray, but they need to do it asap anyway.

Yeah, like we really need help blowing something other than a 3-1 series lead.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

The Clippers are in hard cap Hell.

Once they max Jordan. they will be the only Team in the NBA with less than 20 mil in capspace after the TV money infusion.

They needed to get younger and have zero draft picks in either round.

High risk/high reward.

If Stephenson can play good peremiter defense, he will be worth it.

 

[trojanfan12]

I take a dissenting position from the popular name recognition of Stephenson.
The Clippers really needed more bodies and cap relief.

I am not sure giving up two players and getting further into salary cap hell is a wise decision.
I would have tried to fix Hawes and kept Barnes.
Hawes was a pretty good player up until last season.

Now they have 1 player instead of 2, and even slightly less cap space than the dire position beforehand.
There is just no way they can beat multiple deep teams in the West in a row by getting thinner.

OKC, Houston, SA, and GS will all have far more depth next season.
The Clips simply cannot beat all them in a row with zero depth.

And if Jordan leaves, it makes things even worse as Hawes can in theory play the Centerman spot a bit.
They must have a rock solid commitment from Jordan...or this is a beyond risky move with only medium upside.

Solid points, but the Clips were going to be in salary cap hell anyway if they kept Barnes and Hawes. Sure, this might make it a little worse, but salary cap hell is salary cap hell. Their most glaring weakness was perimeter defense, especially at the SF position. Mecca has been complaining about SF all season.

If Stephenson plays anywhere close to how he did before he went to Charlotte, it pretty well eliminates that weakness.

Best case scenario, Stephenson returns to form, shores up the SF position, perimeter defense and helps the Clips advance farther in the playoffs.

Worst case scenario, Lance doesn't return form, is a troublemaker and they cut him loose in 2 years.

 

[Retroram52]

Going deeper into cap hell is not a very good scenario. Didn't Rivers learn anything in Boston?

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Worst case scenario, Lance doesn't return form, is a troublemaker and they cut him loose in 2 years.

Actually worst case would be DeAndre Jordan leaving.
The Clips dont have any money whether he re-signs or not. They cannot bring in another big man.

Whether you believe Hawes can return to 13/8 type numbers or he is forever doomed...
You still have the ability to slide Hawes into the post as a warm body, but now there are zero options.

I don't like the trade, but it is really a bad trade if Jordan leaves.
I guess Doc Rivers has a 100% ironclad guarantee from him.

The trade is a little tough to evaluate without knowing exactly what Jordan plans to do.

 

[ducky]

It's crazy that Stephenson isn't even 25 yet.

He'll have to play a HELL of a lot better than he did last year for this to look like a good move.

I do think this move shows that Jordan is coming back to the Clippers and they know it. Otherwise they couldn't do it.

 

[trojanfan12]

Actually worst case would be DeAndre Jordan leaving.
The Clips dont have any money whether he re-signs or not. They cannot bring in another big man.

Whether you believe Hawes can return to 13/8 type numbers or he is forever doomed...
You still have the ability to slide Hawes into the post as a warm body, but now there are zero options.

I don't like the trade, but it is really a bad trade if Jordan leaves.
I guess Doc Rivers has a 100% ironclad guarantee from him.

The trade is a little tough to evaluate without knowing exactly what Jordan plans to do.

True. But they were screwed if Jordan leaves whether they made this trade or not. Basically, with this trade, if Jordan leaves they lose interior defense while gaining perimeter defense. Hawes at center is basically no different than having Barnes at SF. It's a wekness to be exposed.

Assuming he stays, which I think he ultimately will despite rumors of a rift between him and CP3, then I think the Clips become a better team assuming Lance returns to form and not really any worse if he doesn't.

End of the day, the Clips went all in with Doc and the bulk of this roster. If it doesn't work, they blow it up in a couple of years and re-build. Only this time they get to do it with an owner who will actually spend some money and who seems to be at least as interested in winning as he is in being able to call himself an NBA owner.

 

[ducky]

I do think this move shows that Jordan is coming back to the Clippers and they know it. Otherwise they couldn't do it.

Actually I just looked it up.

If Jordan leaves, it means that the Clippers would just throw contracts around at one of the many good centers that are around the league in FA this offseason.

The Clippers aren't even over the cap if they give Jordan a max contract. If Jordan walks they would have a ton of money to play with.

....and there are a TON of centers on the free agent market this offseason that would be a quality plan B.

The cap is going to be close to $85M this coming season. And $100+M the year after. No team has to really worry about their cap situation right now.

Hell if I am the Clippers, I contact Monroe's agent behind closed doors so word doesn't get back to Jordan and offend him before I go full max on Jordan.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

The Clippers aren't even over the cap if they give Jordan a max contract. If Jordan walks they would have a ton of money to play with.

The cap is only going to be about 67.1 million for next year.
It will rise to about 89 million in 2016-17.

The Clippers have commited 59 million (BEFORE) picking up the option on Crawford or resigining Jordan.
Assuming they grab the cheap option on Crawford, they are at the cap.

Jordan would push them over the cap and almost at the cap for next year.
The Clippers are likely to be the only team without money in the free agent frenzy in 2 years.

 

[ducky]

The cap is only going to be about 67.1 million for next year.
It will rise to about 89 million in 2016-17.

The Clippers have commited 59 million (BEFORE) picking up the option on Crawford or resigining Jordan.
Assuming they grab the cheap option on Crawford, they are at the cap.

Jordan would push them over the cap and almost at the cap for next year.
The Clippers are likely to be the only team without money in the free agent frenzy in 2 years.

Damn I was always one season ahead when projecting salary cap.

Not having money in the FA frenzy 2 years down the road is the best thing any team can do. It means you have your roster in place.

With every team having money, it is going to be a situation where the talent will disperse evenly around the league. It is going to be an epic bust in almost every city whose fan's think they are going to attract two or three of the top FA's. There will be one winner in FA those years (a team that does indeed get 2 players to sign max deals and build another super team) but no one else is going to do all that well. What we will see is massive overpays for guys that should be mid-level players just to fill out rosters. Having 10 guys under contract and little space heading into that $80M season is going to be better than having 5 guys and $40M in space as long as those 10 guys are a respectable roster.

 

[Hambombs]

The Clippers are in hard cap Hell.

Once they max Jordan. they will be the only Team in the NBA with less than 20 mil in capspace after the TV money infusion.

They needed to get younger and have zero draft picks in either round.

High risk/high reward.

If Stephenson can play good peremiter defense, he will be worth it.

What do you think of the move?

 

[Hambombs]

Because chemistry got them so far

Not enough talent that's why

 

[LUNCHBOX]

This is a win win for both teams...Clips gave up nothing and got a good player that can help .....the hornets gat addition by subtraction...they could not have Lance and Kemba pound the rock for the whole shot clock...

 

[wildturkey]

I take a dissenting position from the popular name recognition of Stephenson.
The Clippers really needed more bodies and cap relief.

I am not sure giving up two players and getting further into salary cap hell is a wise decision.
I would have tried to fix Hawes and kept Barnes.
Hawes was a pretty good player up until last season.

Now they have 1 player instead of 2, and even slightly less cap space than the dire position beforehand.
There is just no way they can beat multiple deep teams in the West in a row by getting thinner.

OKC, Houston, SA, and GS will all have far more depth next season.
The Clips simply cannot beat all them in a row with zero depth.

And if Jordan leaves, it makes things even worse as Hawes can in theory play the Centerman spot a bit.
They must have a rock solid commitment from Jordan...or this is a beyond risky move with only medium upside.

I think the deal actually saves them cash. Lance's contract has a team option on the 2nd year so he's essentially on a 1 year, 9 mil deal. But they get rid of Hawes who still had 3 years and something close to 20 mil on the deal.




I was thinking today that if Charlotte waives Barnes, you can pretty much book it that he'll sign with Cleveland. He's the perfect scenario for them. Guy up in age chasing a ring that doesn't mind playing for cheap, gives you 3 pt shooting, defense, and toughness. He'd give them exactly what Mike Miller/Shawn Marion was suppose to give them