cleveland is no longer considered the indians

[BrownEyedGirl]

Why are you referring to them as indigenous people? I think that’s oppressive as well, they didn’t label themselves that term either. The label indigenous has inferior connotations to primal beings.

Was it racist when “indigenous people” carried out their own manifest destiny to slaughter other tribal nations or just when it’s white settlers came along? Funny how in all your wokeness you get to cherry pick history to virtual signal your moral agenda. The people here before us were far from peaceful and carried out crimes that would make our settlers blush.

Indigenous just simply means that they are native or original to an area. It's not a nationality or even really a true label. The term "indian" was originated as a mistake by Columbus thinking he landed in the Asian subcontinent which then somehow stuck and was unfortunately reinforced over the centuries. There have been thousands of different tribes and indigenous nations on this continent all with their own unique names, cultures, and beliefs. They are no more "Indian" than they are any other continent or country that Columbus might have thought he discovered and labeled them as.

I'm not trying to virtue signal or display wokeness either by the way. I was asked why the term "indian" is inappropriate and I answered the question. Not liking the answer doesn't make it a virtue signaling of my moral agenda. By the way I never said that they were all peaceful, I just answered the question about the term "indian". Are you trying to say that because those tribes fought each other that it means we are better than them or that it gives us the ability to dehumanize them or use their cultures for our sports? If that's the case have you ever researched how many wars and conflicts the US has been a part of so far in our short history? Would that history make indigenous people blush to know that number?

The only argument i've been making on here is that the term "indian" is inappropriate and that the term is a label that indigenous people didn't ask for. If you want to talk about conflicts, crimes, manifest destiny, settlers, indian removal acts, wars, slaughters, and violent history we can, but I just figured we'd stick to Cleveland.

 

[Rex Racer]

The word "Indian" is not a name that indigenous people gave to themselves but was a term labeled to them and reinforced by what would be oppressive and/or racist governments. It just reinforces and continues a label from a bad part of our history. Partner in the chants and the caricatures and it becomes pretty bad. I will say that if a local tribe unique to that area were to work with Cleveland (or any team really) to create a nickname, logo, and general atmosphere that is respectful and beneficial to that tribe's reputation and heritage then I think that would be pretty cool.

Have I ever told you how much I would like to travel to Woodrow Wilson's grave site and take a dump on it?

 

[Rex Racer]

Indigenous just simply means that they are native or original to an area.

Except that they weren't original to the area. They just happened to be here when the European settlers showed up. Other peoples were here before the various tribes.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

Except that they weren't original to the area. They just happened to be here when the European settlers showed up. Other peoples were here before the various tribes.

Yes if you were to go back far enough in time you can make the case that every tribe or civilization going back from the 19th century to ancient times didn't just appear in that spot and instead traveled or in some cases took over an area from another tribe, nation, or civilization. Most tribes native to American prefer to be called indigenous and so that's what I go by. The term "Indian" has an interesting history to it but it's also just plain factually and geographically incorrect. You are in New Hampshire, right? (Follow me here) Imagine if people all over the country referred to you as Chinese all because someone in the 15th century landed in Portsmouth but thought he found mainland China instead and it somehow stuck to future Americans. I'm sure you'd be pushing to have your proper name represented too and for that wrong association and label to be put to bed. Referring to all indigenous people as "Indians" is really not all that different from that hypothetical except the real life version has been much worse.

 

[Rex Racer]

Yes if you were to go back far enough in time you can make the case that every tribe or civilization going back from the 19th century to ancient times didn't just appear in that spot and instead traveled or in some cases took over an area from another tribe, nation, or civilization. Most tribes native to American prefer to be called indigenous and so that's what I go by. The term "Indian" has an interesting history to it but it's also just plain factually and geographically incorrect. You are in New Hampshire, right? (Follow me here) Imagine if people all over the country referred to you as Chinese all because someone in the 15th century landed in Portsmouth but thought he found mainland China instead and it somehow stuck to future Americans. I'm sure you'd be pushing to have your proper name represented too and for that wrong association and label to be put to bed. Referring to all indigenous people as "Indians" is really not all that different from that hypothetical except the real life version has been much worse.

Good grief

 

[catman]

Yes if you were to go back far enough in time you can make the case that every tribe or civilization going back from the 19th century to ancient times didn't just appear in that spot and instead traveled or in some cases took over an area from another tribe, nation, or civilization. Most tribes native to American prefer to be called indigenous and so that's what I go by. The term "Indian" has an interesting history to it but it's also just plain factually and geographically incorrect. You are in New Hampshire, right? (Follow me here) Imagine if people all over the country referred to you as Chinese all because someone in the 15th century landed in Portsmouth but thought he found mainland China instead and it somehow stuck to future Americans. I'm sure you'd be pushing to have your proper name represented too and for that wrong association and label to be put to bed. Referring to all indigenous people as "Indians" is really not all that different from that hypothetical except the real life version has been much worse.

Most of the tribal members I know prefer to be called by their given names, and yes, I know quite a few members of the Meskwaki Tribe. I work directly with their EMS and help with fires on their Settlement.
As to the Cleveland ballclub changing their name, I have no opinion either way. It is up to the management of the team to make that decision. I imagine the radio and TV stations in Cleveland will run a "naming" contest for viewers and listeners. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

[Red_Chaos]

I have no problem with the name change. Just one question though. Why does Cleveland have to change their name but the K.C. Chiefs, Chicago Blackhawks and Atlanta Braves don't? The only team that gets a pass is Florida State. From what I remember they have the okay from the Seminole Tribe in Florida.

What about the KC Chiefs? Don't they have some sort of tomahawk chop thing too??

Nobody has bitch enough to get them to change. If the blackhawks get bored enough I could see them complaining but to be honest if they don’t let sports teams use there name. Who the heck even remembers who they are outside the tribes.

 

[Tomhusker]

JFC....

This country is being over run by the perpetually offended. What a bunch of fucking bitches.

 

[broncosmitty]

I have no problem with the name change. Just one question though. Why does Cleveland have to change their name but the K.C. Chiefs, Chicago Blackhawks and Atlanta Braves don't? The only team that gets a pass is Florida State. From what I remember they have the okay from the Seminole Tribe in Florida.

CMU has the support of the Chippewa tribe as well. Just no Indian images.

Cleveland did this on their own. Nobody made them.

Chief Blackhawk was a person, not a people. He doesn’t put up much fuss these days.

 

[broncosmitty]

Nobody has bitch enough to get them to change. If the blackhawks get bored enough I could see them complaining but to be honest if they don’t let sports teams use there name. Who the heck even remembers who they are outside the tribes.

Not a tribe.

Black Hawk the man, was a Sauk.

 

[BrownEyedGirl]

Most of the tribal members I know prefer to be called by their given names, and yes, I know quite a few members of the Meskwaki Tribe. I work directly with their EMS and help with fires on their Settlement.
As to the Cleveland ballclub changing their name, I have no opinion either way. It is up to the management of the team to make that decision. I imagine the radio and TV stations in Cleveland will run a "naming" contest for viewers and listeners. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

I would agree that they want to be called by their given names. What I was talking about was more around the collective term in place of the word "indian".

 

[catman]

I understand what you are saying. I'm just bringing back a quote from an old TV show Room 222 in which a brand new teacher asks a co-worker if he prefers being called "colored" or "black". His response was "I've always preferred Pete".
Collectively, the Tribe here prefers being called Meskwakies.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

JFC....

This country is being over run by the perpetually offended. What a bunch of fucking bitches.

No, you just got rid of the one who was perpetually offended.

Some of these names and "traditions" were a bit much.

 

[Tomhusker]

No, you just got rid of the one who was perpetually offended.

Some of these names and "traditions" were a bit much.

Bullshit.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Bullshit.

Sure thing.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Where's Slinky at?

 

[CaptainStubing]

Lame, but they're all going to end up changing their names

 

[Batman]

Indigenous just simply means that they are native or original to an area.

I and my ancestors were born in Ohio going back several generations.
Am I indigenous to the area and a native american?

 

[scotsman1948]

Indigenous just simply means that they are native or original to an area. It's not a nationality or even really a true label. The term "indian" was originated as a mistake by Columbus thinking he landed in the Asian subcontinent which then somehow stuck and was unfortunately reinforced over the centuries. There have been thousands of different tribes and indigenous nations on this continent all with their own unique names, cultures, and beliefs. They are no more "Indian" than they are any other continent or country that Columbus might have thought he discovered and labeled them as.

I'm not trying to virtue signal or display wokeness either by the way. I was asked why the term "indian" is inappropriate and I answered the question. Not liking the answer doesn't make it a virtue signaling of my moral agenda. By the way I never said that they were all peaceful, I just answered the question about the term "indian". Are you trying to say that because those tribes fought each other that it means we are better than them or that it gives us the ability to dehumanize them or use their cultures for our sports? If that's the case have you ever researched how many wars and conflicts the US has been a part of so far in our short history? Would that history make indigenous people blush to know that number?

The only argument i've been making on here is that the term "indian" is inappropriate and that the term is a label that indigenous people didn't ask for. If you want to talk about conflicts, crimes, manifest destiny, settlers, indian removal acts, wars, slaughters, and violent history we can, but I just figured we'd stick to Cleveland.

The “indigenous” people are descendants of people who migrated across the land bridge of Bering Strait

 

[Center Ice]

The word "Indian" is not a name that indigenous people gave to themselves but was a term labeled to them and reinforced by what would be oppressive and/or racist governments. It just reinforces and continues a label from a bad part of our history. Partner in the chants and the caricatures and it becomes pretty bad. I will say that if a local tribe unique to that area were to work with Cleveland (or any team really) to create a nickname, logo, and general atmosphere that is respectful and beneficial to that tribe's reputation and heritage then I think that would be pretty cool.

The why do Indian's call themselves "Indians"? I guess they're racist too.

This brain damaged political correctness has to stop. George Carlin said it best.....