CFB Free Agency

[mad2mc]

WVU HAD a consistent top 25 recruiter at football coach a few years ago.......so you would give Huggins two years to get to the elite eight or can him, but you wanted to extend Holgorsen for making it to the Yankee Bowl............Holgorsen was under a contract from Luck that would have cost $$millions to can after the 2015, he was offered an extension and declined it, both parties decided to table talks until later, WVU had a successful season and Holgorsen was extended, Lyons did his job, and did it well.

Going back from this year, the first top 25 recruiting class, per Rivals, was in 2007. No wonder why you like Lyin' Shane Lyons. I see your still,living in the Big East era and explains why you can't keep up with the times. If ALL of those fans hated Dana, then buying out his contract would not have been an issue. That's why boosters like Kendrick came back when Luck sat in the Big chair and Stewart was removed. Stop mourning the replacement and get over it.

As far as Huggins, I started questioning him a while back. If you understood his contract, you would understand that I extended his contract by 2 years, while keeping everything else in place. I'm also letting him develop some of his younger players who will be seniors at the end of my contract extension. You fill that reaching an Elite 8 status is asking too much of a future HOF HC? Isn't this comparable, using your math, to Dana winning the Big 12 and landing a spot in the CFB championship series? Something that you and your boys demanded Dana do in his first 3 seasons as a first time head coach? Why can't Huggy make it to the Elite 8? Why wouldn't you want better than a Sweet 16 with a team who was ranked around #9 in the country entering into the Big 12 tournament? It's because you're full of crap. You expect more from somebody who has less experience but less from somebody who has more experience. So typical of your ideology.

 

[mad2mc]

While I agree Lyons made a mess of things, and has messed up the recruiting, I will give him the same slack I afforded Dana. Keep in mind this is his first time being AD. He has the right to learn the same as Dana did,

Maybe the stupid president should not have hired him....maybe he will learn from this and become one of the greatest AD's we have seen.

It is all easy from the outside.

Time will tell.

I agree he has the right to learn, however, you would expect that he would have learned not to lie over stupid shit. If a coach doesn't like your offer, you don't go on with Hoppy and make it look like you were the greatest thing to come to the program. You also don't start lying about all the assistant coaches across the football world being placed on a yearly contract. I can understand this being placed on some of the new position coaches, but you should also be able to craft a contract that includes language that would allow you to release a new coach after a year if things don't work out. Lyons didn't walk into a program that was on fire, he walked into a program that is fairly well set up. He had plenty of opportunity to make a decision that would have protected the program. Instead, he creates a lame duck situation resulting in what we have today. I can't understand how others can say he was doing his job. But then again, I'm probably being baited by a potential troll because this shit has been going on since our time on CBS.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

So... losing to KU and ISU in 2013 when the staff had lost something like 13 starters to injury to include 9 from the defense... is something the stupid ass president can't comprehend?

And, then we're looking at extending the HC during the '15 season... right? How many years removed is our stupid ass president being asked to evaluate when 13 starters had been loss to injury?

You missed my point there. I am sure that the injuries factored into Lyons decision to keep Holgerson around. I also bet that his hands were somewhat tied by Luck with the buyout clause.
The point made is regardless of the situation, losing to Kansas and Iowa State effects reputation and recruiting. If we won those two games and made a bowl, an extension would be a no brainer for any AD. Give an extension after those losses and season, puts the AD in the crosshairs if he fails.

Prior to those losses, out 2013 class was ranked at #28. After the 2013 losses, we dropped to #40 in 2014 ( i guess those recruits did not buy the 13 injured starters excuse and signed with someone else who is on the rise and not decline).

Now 2016 was the lame duck recruiting class. We had a improved record, but Dana had no extension and many thought it would be his last year. Yet his recruiting class was better than 2013. My theory and I'll argue it to the grave is that the losses to Kansas and ISU hurt recruiting more than the lame duck status of Dana.

the 2017 class was most likely killed by assistant turnover, much of which happened after Dana was extended.

Needless to say had we not lost those two games, we would be in a much better position today.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Huggins did not play, but for a future HOF HC with over 800 career wins, I expect that his recruit ability would be better than what he has shown since he came to WVU. In another thread, I mentioned that 2017 was the year that he has the opportunity to step down while remaining part of the program at WVU until he decides to retire. I already said that I would give him 2 seasons to get to the Elite 8. It amazes me that he did not know the working of the 1-3-1. I shouldn't be surprised that you hang your hat on a 1 loss Gonzaga team who would not have the same record should they play in any of the Power 5 conference. WVU should have won and I'm not so sure anybody would classify it as a major upset. It would be an upset only because a #4 beat a #1 seed. You and your buddy do not apply the same standards for Huggy as you place on Dana. You're ok loosing to Temple and the SFAs of the world. Don't forget, Huggy drinks just like Dana.


When you look back at the history of WVU basketball, we are now in the Golden Years. Huggy has done better than any othe coach in WVU history, has 800 plus wins and is one of the most famous and respected coach in college basketball. Other than Calipari or Pitino, I cant think of any coach who would bring more talent to WVU.

 

[mad2mc]

You missed my point there. I am sure that the injuries factored into Lyons decision to keep Holgerson around. I also bet that his hands were somewhat tied by Luck with the buyout clause.
The point made is regardless of the situation, losing to Kansas and Iowa State effects reputation and recruiting. If we won those two games and made a bowl, an extension would be a no brainer for any AD. Give an extension after those losses and season, puts the AD in the crosshairs if he fails.

Prior to those losses, out 2013 class was ranked at #28. After the 2013 losses, we dropped to #40 in 2014 ( i guess those recruits did not buy the 13 injured starters excuse and signed with someone else who is on the rise and not decline).

Now 2016 was the lame duck recruiting class. We had a improved record, but Dana had no extension and many thought it would be his last year. Yet his recruiting class was better than 2013. My theory and I'll argue it to the grave is that the losses to Kansas and ISU hurt recruiting more than the lame duck status of Dana.

the 2017 class was most likely killed by assistant turnover, much of which happened after Dana was extended.

Needless to say had we not lost those two games, we would be in a much better position today.

If the Kansas and Iowa State losses moved the needle that much, then No Balls should have pulled the trigger and fired him. Texas had no problems doing this. The alternative, he should have kept his mouth closed about the contract negotiations. Then follows it up with his claim about college football is going to yearly contracts. He's better off giving us updates about construction going on at the sporting venues. Hopefully he is figuring out how to retain assistant head coaches and figure out how to guide the basketball program.

 

[mad2mc]

Huggins did not play, but for a future HOF HC with over 800 career wins, I expect that his recruit ability would be better than what he has shown since he came to WVU. In another thread, I mentioned that 2017 was the year that he has the opportunity to step down while remaining part of the program at WVU until he decides to retire. I already said that I would give him 2 seasons to get to the Elite 8. It amazes me that he did not know the working of the 1-3-1. I shouldn't be surprised that you hang your hat on a 1 loss Gonzaga team who would not have the same record should they play in any of the Power 5 conference. WVU should have won and I'm not so sure anybody would classify it as a major upset. It would be an upset only because a #4 beat a #1 seed. You and your buddy do not apply the same standards for Huggy as you place on Dana. You're ok loosing to Temple and the SFAs of the world. Don't forget, Huggy drinks just like Dana.


When you look back at the history of WVU basketball, we are now in the Golden Years. Huggy has done better than any othe coach in WVU history, has 800 plus wins and is one of the most famous and respected coach in college basketball. Other than Calipari or Pitino, I cant think of any coach who would bring more talent to WVU.

Huggins glory years have not been at WVU. He happened to win his 800th game while coaching here. No doubt Huggins is a good coach but why can't we want better from our basketball program, like we do for our football program? Some on here had a man crush on Stew and settled for 9-3 records while in the Big East. So now we need to do the same for basketball?

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Huggins glory years have not been at WVU. He happened to win his 800th game while coaching here. No doubt Huggins is a good coach but why can't we want better from our basketball program, like we do for our football program? Some on here had a man crush on Stew and settled for 9-3 records while in the Big East. So now we need to do the same for basketball?

Now we hope for 9-3 records in football

We all want better, we just may disagree on how to get there. If we could get a coach who could fill our team with Mcdonalds all americans, I'm all in. Right now, John Calipari, Roy Wiliams, John Calipari, Mike K, Tom Izzo and Rick Pitino are all locked up. Other than those guys, I don't know of any coach in college Bball who would be an improvement.

 

[bbwvfan]

You missed my point there. I am sure that the injuries factored into Lyons decision to keep Holgerson around. I also bet that his hands were somewhat tied by Luck with the buyout clause.
The point made is regardless of the situation, losing to Kansas and Iowa State effects reputation and recruiting. If we won those two games and made a bowl, an extension would be a no brainer for any AD. Give an extension after those losses and season, puts the AD in the crosshairs if he fails.

Prior to those losses, out 2013 class was ranked at #28. After the 2013 losses, we dropped to #40 in 2014 ( i guess those recruits did not buy the 13 injured starters excuse and signed with someone else who is on the rise and not decline).

Now 2016 was the lame duck recruiting class. We had a improved record, but Dana had no extension and many thought it would be his last year. Yet his recruiting class was better than 2013. My theory and I'll argue it to the grave is that the losses to Kansas and ISU hurt recruiting more than the lame duck status of Dana.

the 2017 class was most likely killed by assistant turnover, much of which happened after Dana was extended.

Needless to say had we not lost those two games, we would be in a much better position today.

Man... I've tried to explain to you that recruiting is a multi-year process. Classes are built over time. Recent success/failure has little impact on the composite of the class put together a month following the last game of the year. It is why we didn't see a jump in the '06 class after beating UGA in the Sugar Bowl. The '06 class finished 247 Composite #57.

The '14 class finished #38 after a poor '13 season. Last year's class was ranked #57 by the same site.

Why did the '12 class finish #36 following the Orange Bowl win?

57th ranked class. There is only one reason it fell this low. Shane Lyons.

 

[mad2mc]

Now we hope for 9-3 records in football

We all want better, we just may disagree on how to get there. If we could get a coach who could fill our team with Mcdonalds all americans, I'm all in. Right now, John Calipari, Roy Wiliams, John Calipari, Mike K, Tom Izzo and Rick Pitino are all locked up. Other than those guys, I don't know of any coach in college Bball who would be an improvement.

So since we can't get the coaches you mentioned and our current coach is either a level below or on par, but cannot land a top rated recruit in any of his years here, we should settle? Don't go out and find the next hot, upcoming, basketball coach. Huggins is going to be given emeritus status, so the next guy will have some guidance. I get it. Let's go back to having zero vision of what our sports programs should be and settle back to the Pastilong days. I'm wondering why we can't ever get a top recruit from time to time.

BasketballRecruiting.Rivals.com - Rivals 2017 basketball team rankings update: Kentucky remains on top

#35 is not bad, but look at some of the schools ahead of us. Is it the coach, his style of play, or where we are located?

 

[WVUDAD]

I agree he has the right to learn, however, you would expect that he would have learned not to lie over stupid shit. If a coach doesn't like your offer, you don't go on with Hoppy and make it look like you were the greatest thing to come to the program. You also don't start lying about all the assistant coaches across the football world being placed on a yearly contract. I can understand this being placed on some of the new position coaches, but you should also be able to craft a contract that includes language that would allow you to release a new coach after a year if things don't work out. Lyons didn't walk into a program that was on fire, he walked into a program that is fairly well set up. He had plenty of opportunity to make a decision that would have protected the program. Instead, he creates a lame duck situation resulting in what we have today. I can't understand how others can say he was doing his job. But then again, I'm probably being baited by a potential troll because this shit has been going on since our time on CBS.

MOST assistant coaches at MOST schools are on one year contracts......look at Ohio State: A closer look at Ohio State's coaches' contracts

 

[mad2mc]

MOST assistant coaches at MOST schools are on one year contracts......look at Ohio State: A closer look at Ohio State's coaches' contracts

Please stop being stupid.

 

[bbwvfan]

Please stop being stupid.

Let me know if this works...

 

[WVUDAD]

Please stop being stupid.

So now stating truth is stupid? OHIO STATE, the school that you "fans" want to emulate, has their position coaches on one year contracts, coordinators on two year deals.

 

[bbwvfan]

Now we hope for 9-3 records in football

We all want better, we just may disagree on how to get there. If we could get a coach who could fill our team with Mcdonalds all americans, I'm all in. Right now, John Calipari, Roy Wiliams, John Calipari, Mike K, Tom Izzo and Rick Pitino are all locked up. Other than those guys, I don't know of any coach in college Bball who would be an improvement.

There was a time when we expected to win the BE football championship. When we played 1... maybe 2... ranked teams every year. There was a time when we expected to win the Atlantic 10 championship every year. We were lucky to play 1... maybe 2... ranked teams every year.

What happened when we moved from the A10 to the BE? Did expectations change? Why did they change?

We have some fans who claim 9-4 was proof of a good season... proof of great coaching. That's analogous to saying competing for 3rd place in the A10 was proof of the same.

Aren't you supposed to be an attorney? Good grief...

 

[bbwvfan]

So now stating truth is stupid? OHIO STATE, the school that you "fans" want to emulate, has their position coaches on one year contracts, coordinators on two year deals.

You present one school. If you're gonna try not to look as stupid as you are... I'd suggest showing this board proof that most schools are doing as you claim.

Or... you can be stuck with stupid...

 

[mad2mc]

Let me know if this works...

I think you already know how it's going to work.

 

[mad2mc]

So now stating truth is stupid? OHIO STATE, the school that you "fans" want to emulate, has their position coaches on one year contracts, coordinators on two year deals.

1. I never said that our program should be modeled after Ohio State.
2. Show me more.
3. If I have to explain your own article to you, then live with the title. Let's just say, Dana's coaching tree is nowhere close to Urban's. Coaches at Alabama may have a similar type of contract as OSU.

 

[mad2mc]

There was a time when we expected to win the BE football championship. When we played 1... maybe 2... ranked teams every year. There was a time when we expected to win the Atlantic 10 championship every year. We were lucky to play 1... maybe 2... ranked teams every year.

What happened when we moved from the A10 to the BE? Did expectations change? Why did they change?

We have some fans who claim 9-4 was proof of a good season... proof of great coaching. That's analogous to saying competing for 3rd place in the A10 was proof of the same.

Aren't you supposed to be an attorney? Good grief...

It's funny how we call 7 game win season a total collapse in the Big 12 and then compare it to a successful 9-3 record in the BE. Add that Poppy math to it makes you want to jump out a window. Especially when some want to fire the football coach after 5 years for not winning the Big 12 but the same are alright with our future HOF BB coach not advancing further in the tournament.

 

[WVUDAD]

It's funny how we call 7 game win season a total collapse in the Big 12 and then compare it to a successful 9-3 record in the BE. Add that Poppy math to it makes you want to jump out a window. Especially when some want to fire the football coach after 5 years for not winning the Big 12 but the same are alright with our future HOF BB coach not advancing further in the tournament.

Huggins has our BB team beating Kansas every year, playing in the B12 title game two years running, and going to the sweet 16 a third of the time.....when Holgorsen has WVU beating Oklahoma half the time, playing in the new CCG as often as not, and going to the "playoff" bowls a third of the time, you can talk.......

 

[Anotherwvufan]

If the Kansas and Iowa State losses moved the needle that much, then No Balls should have pulled the trigger and fired him. Texas had no problems doing this. The alternative, he should have kept his mouth closed about the contract negotiations. Then follows it up with his claim about college football is going to yearly contracts. He's better off giving us updates about construction going on at the sporting venues. Hopefully he is figuring out how to retain assistant head coaches and figure out how to guide the basketball program.

That would have been a good season to make a change except for the buyout. Texas boosters could afford the buyout. I don't think Lyons really had that luxury. I agree that he should have kept his mouth shut on contract negotiations. I'm not convinced that yearly contracts were the reason for Assistant turnover. Lyons inherited Holgerson just like Luck inherited Stewart. Luck however had the luxury of not having to deal with a big buyout clause and a tough decision was less expensive to make.

As you see the recruiting numbers above, you can see that after those losses we had a worse recruiting year than when Dana was a lame duck. Lucky for us, the 2013 class included some great players that helped us turn it around. No surprise that we hit the JUCOs hard the past couple of years and brought in more graduate transfers to make up for the 2014 class.