Celtics '20'21 - The Young and the Restless

[The Q]

I can see why you'd want him but why are the Cavs making this deal?

Romeo was a lottery pick last year.

edwards was a very early second (bubble first rounder)

nance is already expensive and the cavs are going nowhere the rest of that contract. I doubt he’s getting much better.

would’ve been better to do it before the draft since you guys took Okoro though obviously.

 

[dtgold88]

Romeo was a lottery pick last year.

edwards was a very early second (bubble first rounder)

nance is already expensive and the cavs are going nowhere the rest of that contract. I doubt he’s getting much better.

would’ve been better to do it before the draft since you guys took Okoro though obviously.

Are you being serious? Langford showed nothing last year and Edwards is the last thing the Cavs need right now. Nance has improved pretty much every year he has been in the NBA and there are not many contracts better than his for what he offers. Actually goes down the next 3 seasons from 11 mil to 10 to 9 mil.

Isn't to say Langford cannot emerge in year 2, but this makes no sense for the Cavs, with or without Okoro.

 

[Gman]

I’m going to continue to stump for danny to move for Larry nance jr.

With Romeo and Edwards plus some salary filler being most of the deal.

he fills the need of a stretch 4 who can switch 3-5 and stretch the floor a bit.

It's not that I dislike Nance... it's not even that I don't think we could use his skills in our rotation...

... it's that Nance doesn't fill our biggest need... (veteran wing scorer off the bench)...

We've got depth in terms of bigs. Either Theis or Thompson (whoever is not starting), along with Husky Grant and TimeLord. Heck, even Semi can play 4 and has some value as a versatile defender.

Furthermore: Husky Grant kinda fills the roll of "stretch 4 can switch 3-5 and stretch the floor a bit" already... his 3 pt shooting really improved over the course of last season.

There's decent reason to hope that Grant Williams and RWIII are serviceable role players this season. There's decidedly less optimism (IMO) that any of Carsen Edwards or Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith become the scorer we need.

 

[The Q]

It's not that I dislike Nance... it's not even that I don't think we could use his skills in our rotation...

... it's that Nance doesn't fill our biggest need... (veteran wing scorer off the bench)...

We've got depth in terms of bigs. Either Theis or Thompson (whoever is not starting), along with Husky Grant and TimeLord. Heck, even Semi can play 4 and has some value as a versatile defender.

Furthermore: Husky Grant kinda fills the roll of "stretch 4 can switch 3-5 and stretch the floor a bit" already... his 3 pt shooting really improved over the course of last season.

There's decent reason to hope that Grant Williams and RWIII are serviceable role players this season. There's decidedly less optimism (IMO) that any of Carsen Edwards or Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith become the scorer we need.

you’d still have the trade exception and your top 7/8 would be

kemba
Briwb
Tatum
Nance
Theis/tt
Smart
TPE target

 

[Gman]

you’d still have the trade exception and your top 7/8 would be

kemba
Brown
Tatum
Nance
Theis/tt
Smart
TPE target

Are we really that different if you change out Grant Williams for Nance in that list?

 

[tlance]

Are we really that different if you change out Grant Williams for Nance in that list?

I know fans like Grant Williams, but he looked like he didn’t belong on the court in the playoffs.

So, yes.

 

[The Q]

Are we really that different if you change out Grant Williams for Nance in that list?

I know fans like Grant Williams, but he looked like he didn’t belong on the court in the playoffs.

So, yes.

nance is probably grants best case scenario.

Its a big leap to take in one year

 

[Gman]

I know fans like Grant Williams, but he looked like he didn’t belong on the court in the playoffs.

So, yes.

He didn't play a ton in the playoffs... but his percentages were decent, especially for a rookie... mostly he just didn't play a ton...

I honestly don't know what you're talking about here.

 

[Gman]

nance is probably grants best case scenario.

Not that I think Williams has a super high ceiling or anything like that... but he moves his feet better than Nance and has some potential as a passer/distributor.

 

[tlance]

He didn't play a ton in the playoffs... but his percentages were decent, especially for a rookie... mostly he just didn't play a ton...

I honestly don't know what you're talking about here.

I just felt like when he was on the floor, his minutes were just not that good.

He made a couple shots, sure. But he got beat defensively because he was just physically overmatched by the players he was guarding.

 

[The Q]

I just felt like when he was on the floor, his minutes were just not that good.

He made a couple shots, sure. But he got beat defensively because he was just physically overmatched by the players he was guarding.

to be fair, he’s not a center in the same way PJ Tucker is not a center.

but he needs to shoot to have value here.

 

[tlance]

to be fair, he’s not a center in the same way PJ Tucker is not a center.

but he needs to shoot to have value here.

Right.

But that was how he was used.

And he didn’t shoot enough to provide value. So it was like negative minutes anytime he was on the court.

And if he isn’t really a wing, then I am not sure what he brings you.

Hustle guys are great for a few minutes in the regular season. But from what I saw, I would have cut him from the playoff rotation.

 

[Gman]

Right.

But that was how he was used.

And he didn’t shoot enough to provide value. So it was like negative minutes anytime he was on the court.

And if he isn’t really a wing, then I am not sure what he brings you.

Hustle guys are great for a few minutes in the regular season. But from what I saw, I would have cut him from the playoff rotation.

You're being a little hard on the rookie, IMO. Playoff rosters shrink, and he's not the first rookie to see his minutes dry up in the post season.

In today's NBA, a versatile defender has increased value... Grant Williams proved himself as a defender repeatedly last season.

So it comes down to him hitting the 3 pt shot... (which he improved on last year after an abysmal start to his rookie season). Grant keeps hitting his shot, he's gonna be a worthwhile role player in the NBA.

 

[tlance]

You're being a little hard on the rookie, IMO. Playoff rosters shrink, and he's not the first rookie to see his minutes dry up in the post season.

In today's NBA, a versatile defender has increased value... Grant Williams proved himself as a defender repeatedly last season.

So it comes down to him hitting the 3 pt shot... (which he improved on last year after an abysmal start to his rookie season). Grant keeps hitting his shot, he's gonna be a worthwhile role player in the NBA.

I am saying he got a lot more run than he should have.

He might develop into a valuable role player in the future. I wouldn’t ever rule that out.

But he played too much in the playoffs this past year.

 

[Gman]

I am saying he got a lot more run than he should have.

He might develop into a valuable role player in the future. I wouldn’t ever rule that out.

But he played too much in the playoffs this past year.

Fair enough. I concede that Williams wasn't quite ready as a rookie to play a significant role in the post season... (as evidenced by the fact that he didn't earn big minutes in the post season last year).

Last year is last year, though. Looking ahead, I stand by the claim that replacing a Grant Williams with a Larry Nance, Jr. isn't a big roster shake-up and isn't really an option that needs to be pursued.

Even if it's an improvement in the short term, it's not an especially large one... I'd rather we let Williams continue to develop as he did last season, and I'd rather the C's focus on areas of bigger need on their roster.

 

[BigKen]

First, the Celtics will not have Kemba Walker until February. I take a very conservative view on his return and expect him to play onlypart time and every other game. That being said, I'm hoping that the newbie, Pritchard can take the point and be told not to worry about scoring, just bring the ball up and set up the offense. If I was Brad, I'd tell him that I'm looking for 10 assists a game which will mean that he's scored 20 points. I'd also tell him to take the ball to the steel and that will accomplish two things. They'll have to drop a bigger man on him to defend the rim and he can dump off the ball and he'll get fouled at least 50% of the time.

The big thing is that everyone on the bench needs to get at least five minutes in every game for the first twenty games. That will tell who can and cannot play and needs to play more in Portland with the Red Claws.

 

[tlance]

Fair enough. I concede that Williams wasn't quite ready as a rookie to play a significant role in the post season... (as evidenced by the fact that he didn't earn big minutes in the post season last year).

Last year is last year, though. Looking ahead, I stand by the claim that replacing a Grant Williams with a Larry Nance, Jr. isn't a big roster shake-up and isn't really an option that needs to be pursued.

Even if it's an improvement in the short term, it's not an especially large one... I'd rather we let Williams continue to develop as he did last season, and I'd rather the C's focus on areas of bigger need on their roster.

I don’t think any deal like that is going to happen, so it is moot.

But I disagree about the need. It would be a nice short term upgrade and I don’t think Williams’ long term ceiling is any higher than what Nance is. And there is a good chance he never gets there.

The Celtics window is now. So if they have a chance to move a guy like Grant Williams for a role player who helps them today, I believe they should do it.

Adding a versatile bench big would be a very nice piece for Boston.

 

[Gman]

I don’t think any deal like that is going to happen, so it is moot.

But I disagree about the need. It would be a nice short term upgrade and I don’t think Williams’ long term ceiling is any higher than what Nance is. And there is a good chance he never gets there.

The Celtics window is now. So if they have a chance to move a guy like Grant Williams for a role player who helps them today, I believe they should do it.

Adding a versatile bench big would be a very nice piece for Boston.

Fair enough... agree to disagree, @tlance.

A side point to our conversation here is that it would likely take a draft asset(s) from Boston to consummate any such deal... however, the fabled treasure trove of draft assets that Boston has enjoyed for years on end (seemingly) has dried up. The C's have no additional 1st round picks in the future, only their own.

Therefore, little deals for marginal improvement are less likely... if I had to bet, the C's will only be willing to give up significant future draft capital if they can address their bigger need.

 

[dtgold88]

Are we really that different if you change out Grant Williams for Nance in that list?

yes

 

[dtgold88]

He didn't play a ton in the playoffs... but his percentages were decent, especially for a rookie... mostly he just didn't play a ton...

I honestly don't know what you're talking about here.

Probably that Nance has shown to be a far better player than williams?