Can We please STOP blaming Welker....

[JDM]

On the Patriots, you don't get 150 targets if you can't catch the ball.

How many of the missed connections were Brady's fault? None...???

He gets open. That is his entire skill set. If you're open, you get targets. Even if he drops far too many, being open will get him looks.

Brady has missed throws. But Welker has dropped far more.

 

[JDM]

JDM how can you talk about Welker's hands being well below average when your HOF rookies WR's where dropping balls all year. You said Dobson has more upside then Josh Gordon, yes you can evaluate talent. I bet some how you blame Welker for spygate too.

Please, show me where I said that. I said Gordon is nothing special, and that even ignoring his discipline concerns, he was not worth trying to teach our offense when we already had guys who we had devoted the time and reps to. But Dobson will be very good. He had a very productive year, and injuries were the reason he didn't completely go off.

 

[TKO]

In the two Super Bowls played against the Giants, Brady is 0/13 on throws of 20+ yards with one interception.

The pass to Welker was 25 yards long.

I suppose Welker was the main problem with the other 12 missed connections.... and the pick.

Based on the 0.00% success rate throwing past 20 yards I'd say the incompletion in question is 80% on Brady.

 

[JDM]

Watch the play. You cannot understand football, watch that play, and not put 100% of the blame on the receiver for dropping a routine ball. It's not possible.

By blaming Brady you are proving beyond any doubt whatsoever that you do not understand football. That is an easy catch.

 

[NEhomer]

Well redseat, the good news is that you got your question answered. No, we can't stop blaming Welker!

 

[JDM]

Well redseat, the good news is that you got your question answered. No, we can't stop blaming Welker!

This is a discussion of that play, though. I don't see people mention it at random, just in this topic that is about it.

 

[TKO]

Watch the play. You cannot understand football, watch that play, and not put 100% of the blame on the receiver for dropping a routine ball. It's not possible.

By blaming Brady you are proving beyond any doubt whatsoever that you do not understand football. That is an easy catch.

Your understanding of a catchable ball is the problem....it's as outdated as your Jimmy Johnson draft chart.

Why? Because all chances for receptions are not equal. For example, hitting a WR in stride and in the hands, is a far more catchable ball than causing him to do a 180 after leaving the ground and stretching as far as he can just to get his hands on the ball. Both passes were in the receiver's hands but the first pass is probably caught 90+% of the time, while the other has a much lower chance for success. IT'S COMMON SENSE.

 

[NEhomer]

TKO, interesting stat but a trend has nothing to do with a specific play.

JDM, C'mon man ya gotta move a little to the middle here, the pass was not on the money.

 

[JDM]

I would literally catch that ball 100 out of 100 times. It was disgustingly easy.


He couldn't hit the receiver in stride. That window was not open. The window that was open was the one he hit. Welker choked.

 

[NEhomer]

Well fair enough sir. Can't quite agree but S'all good.

I still hope Welker drops the game winner on Sunday!

 

[TKO]

I would literally catch that ball 100 out of 100 times. It was disgustingly easy.


He couldn't hit the receiver in stride. That window was not open. The window that was open was the one he hit. Welker choked.

LOL! That window was more like a garage door and Brady threw to the wrong side of it.

 

[JDM]

You're wrong. There was not a single open angle that did not result in Wes having to turn around like that.

There is not a QB ever to play the game who could have given Welker a good chance by putting it in front of him. Absolute best case, Welker gets lit the fuck up and the ball still doesn't get to him.

 

[TKO]

TKO, interesting stat but a trend has nothing to do with a specific play.

JDM, C'mon man ya gotta move a little to the middle here, the pass was not on the money.

True, nothing about any specific play but they're an indication of Brady's accuracy past 20 yards vs the Giants.

I'll have to assume not all of those 13 missed connections were on the receivers plus the Welker pass was 25 yards long and clearly off target. Brady gets the majority of the blame IMO.

 

[TKO]

You're wrong. There was not a single open angle that did not result in Wes having to turn around like that.

There is not a QB ever to play the game who could have given Welker a good chance by putting it in front of him. Absolute best case, Welker gets lit the fuck up and the ball still doesn't get to him.

You've been told to FF to the 15 sec mark...I don't think you have yet. There is no defender in front of him within five yards on either side. I was mistaken, the window was more like a two car garage door.

 

[JDM]

Yes, there is ~five yards on each side. With the amount of touch he would need to put on the ball to get it over the underneath guy, the safety over the top gets to the ball before Welker does.

 

[TKO]

Yes, there is ~five yards on each side. With the amount of touch he would need to put on the ball to get it over the underneath guy, the safety over the top gets to the ball before Welker does.

Here is the NFL Network's analylsis of the play including video of Welker and Brady talking about it in their post game PCs. Mariucci and Michael Irvin also chime in on it. You can draw your own conclusion of who is more to blame but if you stop the video at the 3 second mark you'll see there was no one in front of Welker nor was there anyone within five yards of him on any side.

HE WAS WIDE OPEN but the throw went high, wide and to the wrong side.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKGtAM69R2A]NFL Channel Analysis - Welker Incompletion - Super Bowl 46 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Wazmankg]

Well redseat, the good news is that you got your question answered. No, we can't stop blaming Welker!

I couldn't care less really. I was rooting for the Giants. There were plenty of reasons as things one could point to for the Giants win. I don't have any great love or hate for either guy. But the debate over "who was at fault" for that one play always intrigued me. I remember it over at the espn board. It amazed me then that some people blamed Brady and it amazes me today. It's one my litmus tests to separate people who understand the game from people who don't.

 

[TKO]

I couldn't care less really. I was rooting for the Giants. There were plenty of reasons as things one could point to for the Giants win. I don't have any great love or hate for either guy. But the debate over "who was at fault" for that one play always intrigued me. I remember it over at the espn board. It amazed me then that some people blamed Brady and it amazes me today. It's one my litmus tests to separate people who understand the game from people who don't.

Mariucci's analysis: "You can see Tom throwing the ball to the left keeping the ball away from the safety"

FACT: The safety was at least ten yards from the play...stop the video at the 3 second mark and it's obvious. In fact Brady threw it to the outside shoulder where the coverage was even closer by the end of the play.

Mariucci's further analysis: "Wes says... "I have two hands on the ball, I should have come down with it"; but you know what? He had to turn Michael(Irvin), it would have been a tough catch."

That's right, Brady threw it high, wide and to the wrong shoulder when he didn't have to, and it turned an easy reception to a wide open Welker into a tough one.

SO SAYS A FORMER NFL HEAD COACH.

It's 80% on Brady...IMO

I guess a former NFL Head Coach doesn't understand football as much as you do Wazoo.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKGtAM69R2A]NFL Channel Analysis - Welker Incompletion - Super Bowl 46 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TKO]

Since we're talking about the Giants and Brady I think these stats covering his performance from 2005 through 2011, which includes his two SB games against them, are worth a look. Courtesy of Cold Hard Football Facts:

Brady regular season:
Won two league MVPs
Won 78.4% of his starts with a 101.8 passer rating
Had 203 TD passes with 63 INTs
He led three of the NFL's ten highest scoring offenses in that span

Brady playoffs:
7-6 overall record ...0-2 in the SB
Lost two home playoff games by 26 points
Had an 87.1 passer rating with 27 TDs and 17 INTs
In those three highest scoring years above, he lost in the playoffs by scoring 14, 21 and 17 points. The 14 and 17 point totals were season lows.

Other stats of note from all of the five Super Bowls Brady played in:

9 TD passes, listed here in yards: 1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 12

In the two SB losses to the Giants he was 0-13 with 1 INT in pass attempts of 20+ yards

They make the observation that Brady should go down as "the greatest short-ball passer in NFL history' but also that his game makes it easier for SB caliber defenses to defend his offense.

 

[redseat]

Well redseat, the good news is that you got your question answered. No, we can't stop blaming Welker!

ha-ha I guess we did