Can somebody explain the interest in Fleener to me?

[Heathbar012]

Besides they have a couple of guys who can step up into that role. They have proven to be one of the best teams in the league when it comes to developing WR's.

Throw it to Ramses!

 

[TobyTyler]

Maybe you were watching the wrong team. The Giants OL was bad last year.

Teams with "bad" O lines don't win the Super Bowl.

 

[numone9er]

Throw it to Ramses!

Word. Gotta rep the Central Coast right?

 

[Flyingiguana]

Teams with "bad" O lines don't win the Super Bowl.

bad olines don't look so bad when the refs let u hold all game

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Man he dominated this game. I saw it live and that one handed TD was insane. The breakaway speed on the second TD and dominant blocking in the run game. He'd park Walker on the bench for good.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Teams with "bad" O lines don't win the Super Bowl.

Plenty of recent SB teams (winners and losers) have had questionable OLs. The Steelers' OL has been shaky for some time. The Cards' OL wasn't very good when they made it.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

bad olines don't look so bad when the refs let u hold all game

Or when the QB gets rid of the ball quickly and makes plays under pressure.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Or when the QB gets rid of the ball quickly and makes plays under pressure.

are u fucking serious?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

are u fucking serious?

You are acting as if one game comprises the entire season. Crabtree is garbage because he didn't have any receptions. The OL is garbage because it struggled against the best four-man pass rush in the league. The offensive playcalling is garbage because they went away from the run. Manning isn't all that good because he wasn't great against our own impressive pass rush.

The season was more than that one game. Throughout the season, Eli repeatedly made his OL look better than they were. Much better. And Smith was helped out by his more-than-solid supporting cast.

Or perhaps you really do believe that a good QB can't make his OL look better?

 

[Bemular]

You're equating fewer sacks with "most protected." They aren't the same thing. A QB has a tremendous amount of influence over how often he is sacked.

Eli was hit constantly, and if he didn't do such a good job of making plays under duress his team would have been a shadow of itself.

Btw, I'm still waiting to hear how Ballard's tangibles are comparable to Davis'.

Actually, I was equating sacks to being most upright in response to your FQB comment. Protection takes a few variables into consideration; which, after those are considered, I still think Manning was better protected by his o'line than was Alex by ours.

You are claiming also that Eli was hit consistently. Are you making this claim after watching less than just 4 games? And how are you quantifying constantly? I could be wrong, but I thought he was he hit among the fewest times per drop-back?

As for your question regarding Davis vs. Ballard. As I mentioned previously, you have provided no evidence which requires refutation. You have provided Davis' 2006 draft profile and Ballard's 2010 draft profile which would be terrific if your claim was that Davis' 2006 draft profile was better than Ballard's 2010 draft profile - it wasn't.

You also provided a link to their catches and yards (at least I assume that is what you wanted to point out, you didn’t specify) and as one might expect, the player with the most catches also had the most yards - not what I would call convincing evidence. Thus, I still think, respective to their individual positions on their respective teams and in their respective offenses, their performances were not markedly dissimilar.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Actually, I was equating sacks to being most upright in response to your FQB comment. Protection takes a few variables into consideration; which, after those are considered, I still think Manning was better protected by his o'line than was Alex by ours.

You are claiming also that Eli was hit consistently. Are you making this claim after watching less than just 4 games? And how are you quantifying constantly? I could be wrong, but I thought he was he hit among the fewest times per drop-back?

As for your question regarding Davis vs. Ballard. As I mentioned previously, you have provided no evidence which requires refutation. You have provided Davis' 2006 draft profile and Ballard's 2010 draft profile which would be terrific if your claim was that Davis' 2006 draft profile was better than Ballard's 2010 draft profile - it wasn't.

You also provided a link to their catches and yards (at least I assume that is what you wanted to point out, you didn’t specify) and as one might expect, the player with the most catches also had the most yards - not what I would call convincing evidence. Thus, I still think, respective to their individual positions on their respective teams and in their respective offenses, their performances were not markedly dissimilar.

And you have provided no evidence whatsoever. So I'm still one up on you.

I disagree re: the Giants. I saw their OL struggle in those games I did watch, and I have read several other people's opinions that also questioned that OL's ability to protect. I have yet to see anyone put forth any sort of evidence to change my mind, so....

 

[Bemular]

Maybe you were watching the wrong team. The Giants OL was bad last year.

Not sure how you are quantifying "one of the worst" or "bad", but I would quantify "one of the worst" generously as bottom 8 of a 4-way or bottom 4 on a 8-way split or, of course anything in the middle. As Toby said above and I agree, the o'line is too critical for a championship team to have one of the worst. I'm not saying they are a championship caliber o'line but I don't think they are one of the worst either.

 

[Flyingiguana]

You are acting as if one game comprises the entire season. Crabtree is garbage because he didn't have any receptions. The OL is garbage because it struggled against the best four-man pass rush in the league. The offensive playcalling is garbage because they went away from the run. Manning isn't all that good because he wasn't great against our own impressive pass rush.

The season was more than that one game. Throughout the season, Eli repeatedly made his OL look better than they were. Much better. And Smith was helped out by his more-than-solid supporting cast.

Or perhaps you really do believe that a good QB can't make his OL look better?

the giants offensive line held up pretty well late in the year and eli's wr's can abuse corners. eli's timing isn't usually interrupted by missed blocks. their offense does have holes, but having two wr's emerge as true #1's is deadly.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Not sure how you are quantifying "one of the worst" or "bad", but I would quantify "one of the worst" generously as bottom 8 of a 4-way or bottom 4 on a 8-way split or, of course anything in the middle. As Toby said above and I agree, the o'line is too critical for a championship team to have one of the worst. I'm not saying they are a championship caliber o'line but I don't think they are one of the worst either.

i'd class the giants offensive line about the same as the steelers. it's average, but functional enough to win a championship.

 

[Bemular]

And you have provided no evidence whatsoever. So I'm still one up on you.

I disagree re: the Giants. I saw their OL struggle in those games I did watch, and I have read several other people's opinions that also questioned that OL's ability to protect. I have yet to see anyone put forth any sort of evidence to change my mind, so....

How can you be one up if you never supported your original claim in the first place??? Ha ha, perhaps I started at negative 1?? Either way, you don't have to support your claim, that's fine with me.

Are you also going to avoid explaining how you are quantifying these "hits" you claim Eli consistently endured in 2011? Do you have any statistics that show where he ranked for QB hits?

 

[Bemular]

i'd class the giants offensive line about the same as the steelers. it's average, but functional enough to win a championship.

Yeah, exactly. It certainly is not an all-pro o'line, but "one of the worst" or "markedly worse than ours", nah, not buying it.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

How can you be one up if you never supported your original claim in the first place??? Ha ha, perhaps I started at negative 1?? Either way, you don't have to support your claim, that's fine with me.

Are you also going to avoid explaining how you are quantifying these "hits" you claim Eli consistently endured in 2011? Do you have any statistics that show where he ranked for QB hits?

Look, this is pretty simple. I look at Davis compared to Ballard, and I see that Davis has far superior physical ability. He is MUCH faster, stronger, and more explosive. I also see that Davis has produced far more on the field. I have not seen as much of Ballard, but from what I have seen, I believe that he is more limited than Davis. You said Ballard and Davis are similar in terms of "tangibles." I don't know what you mean by that. So explain what you mean, and provide some evidence to support your claim. Or just continue to be a little bitch. I'm betting on the latter.

As for Eli, do you have any statistics that show that his OL was actually quite good? Btw, suddenly statistics are relevant again? You have a habit of dismissing stats when I provide them to support a position you disagree with, yet you constantly ask me to provide them when I have not done so. Make up your mind.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

the giants offensive line held up pretty well late in the year and eli's wr's can abuse corners. eli's timing isn't usually interrupted by missed blocks. their offense does have holes, but having two wr's emerge as true #1's is deadly.

Except, you know, when we were completely abusing them. For that matter, they looked very shaky against the Pats' fairly mediocre pass rush.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i'd class the giants offensive line about the same as the steelers. it's average, but functional enough to win a championship.

And let me guess, ours wasn't. Give me a break.

 

[Flyingiguana]

And let me guess, ours wasn't. Give me a break.

our line was shit. goodwin/snyder was horrible in the middle in the pass and run game. iupati pulling is the only reason the run game had a chance on the right side of the line.