Bye bye Bears

[Nelly]

There will be roster changes over the offseason. Who's the most likely to go? Some candidates:

Cody Parkey. Obviously. Not sure the of the cap ramifications of cutting him right away though. I'm personally bracing for year 2 of him.

Bobby Massie. Rashaad Coward did well in the preseason after being switched from the DL and Massie will likely want to capitalize contractually after a good 2018.

Adrian Amos. Eddie Jackson is going to cost a fortune. Better to go cheap alongside him and Amos figures to get a sizable deal after the Bears' success this past year.

Bryce Callahan. Much the same as above regarding contract, but i hope we re-sign him. He's a beast, just hope he doesn't cost an arm and a leg. McManis' admirable fill-in might suggest that he's replaceable, but he's far less replaceable than Amos, IMO.

Kyle Long. Not sure of the contract situation but he didn't do an appreciably better job than Witzmann did. A low-key free agent and/or later draft pick to develop might be the way to go here. His leadership would be the only other thing you really miss.

Jordan Howard. We'll see just how much Nagy really meant it when he said Howard is a big part of their offense. He's going into the last year of his deal so a trade for a solid draft pick to grab a more suitable replacement might be the way to go.

Dion Sims. Naturally.

 

[beardown07]

There will be roster changes over the offseason. Who's the most likely to go? Some candidates:

Cody Parkey. Obviously. Not sure the of the cap ramifications of cutting him right away though. I'm personally bracing for year 2 of him.

Bobby Massie. Rashaad Coward did well in the preseason after being switched from the DL and Massie will likely want to capitalize contractually after a good 2018.

Adrian Amos. Eddie Jackson is going to cost a fortune. Better to go cheap alongside him and Amos figures to get a sizable deal after the Bears' success this past year.

Bryce Callahan. Much the same as above regarding contract, but i hope we re-sign him. He's a beast, just hope he doesn't cost an arm and a leg. McManis' admirable fill-in might suggest that he's replaceable, but he's far less replaceable than Amos, IMO.

Kyle Long. Not sure of the contract situation but he didn't do an appreciably better job than Witzmann did. A low-key free agent and/or later draft pick to develop might be the way to go here. His leadership would be the only other thing you really miss.

Jordan Howard. We'll see just how much Nagy really meant it when he said Howard is a big part of their offense. He's going into the last year of his deal so a trade for a solid draft pick to grab a more suitable replacement might be the way to go.

Dion Sims. Naturally.

Let's hope teams are fooled by this year into thinking Howard's value is low.

I still think the duo of him and Cohen is not only great, but a necessity in today's game.

 

[Nelly]

Let's hope teams are fooled by this year into thinking Howard's value is low.

Why? It wouldn't matter at all if we intended on keeping him, and would matter a lot if we intended on making a change.

I still think the duo of him and Cohen is not only great, but a necessity in today's game.

I disagree entirely. A necessity in today's game is not knowing what's coming. When Howard is in there, you know he's not going to run a pass route more than just circling out of the backfield, and the furthest outside he'll run and be able to hurt you is off tackle. When Cohen is in there and gets the ball in the backfield, you know you just need to hold the edge and force him back inside because he won't go inside.

We need a guy who can bring both of those on the field at the same time, or at least some semblance of both. Otherwise, we're automatically limited in what we can do.

 

[beardown07]

Why? It wouldn't matter at all if we intended on keeping him, and would matter a lot if we intended on making a change.



I disagree entirely. A necessity in today's game is not knowing what's coming. When Howard is in there, you know he's not going to run a pass route more than just circling out of the backfield, and the furthest outside he'll run and be able to hurt you is off tackle. When Cohen is in there and gets the ball in the backfield, you know you just need to hold the edge and force him back inside because he won't go inside.

We need a guy who can bring both of those on the field at the same time, or at least some semblance of both. Otherwise, we're automatically limited in what we can do.

I like two capable backs. It's a long season.

 

[beardown07]

I also like the concept of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[Nelly]

I like two capable backs. It's a long season.

I'm not saying get rid of Howard and get a guy who can't play. You can get more than serviceable backs in the 3rd round on an on who would also bring a little more to the passing game than Howard does. Howard was a 5th round draft pick, for example.

 

[richig07]

There will be roster changes over the offseason. Who's the most likely to go? Some candidates:

Cody Parkey. Obviously. Not sure the of the cap ramifications of cutting him right away though. I'm personally bracing for year 2 of him.

Bobby Massie. Rashaad Coward did well in the preseason after being switched from the DL and Massie will likely want to capitalize contractually after a good 2018.

Adrian Amos. Eddie Jackson is going to cost a fortune. Better to go cheap alongside him and Amos figures to get a sizable deal after the Bears' success this past year.

Bryce Callahan. Much the same as above regarding contract, but i hope we re-sign him. He's a beast, just hope he doesn't cost an arm and a leg. McManis' admirable fill-in might suggest that he's replaceable, but he's far less replaceable than Amos, IMO.

Kyle Long. Not sure of the contract situation but he didn't do an appreciably better job than Witzmann did. A low-key free agent and/or later draft pick to develop might be the way to go here. His leadership would be the only other thing you really miss.

Jordan Howard. We'll see just how much Nagy really meant it when he said Howard is a big part of their offense. He's going into the last year of his deal so a trade for a solid draft pick to grab a more suitable replacement might be the way to go.

Dion Sims. Naturally.

Nickel's don't get big money in this league. Callahan will be an easier re-sign than Amos.

Amos has been an absolutely phenomenal safety and saying Callahan is more valuable is head-scratching to me. Amos was 1st team PFF all-pro last season - they rated him as the single best safety in the league. He didn't rate much lower this year. He is BARELY less valuable than Jackson. If he had been as good as 2017 - he may be more valuable.

Long might be brought back because of his leadership/veteran presence on a young team.

I hope we bring Howard back... but could see it going either way. Nagy might want to draft his own RB this year if he likes one projected to fall towards us.

Massie is a slightly above average tackle, but replaceable.

Parkey's release would cut 5.5 million... interpret that how you will. I think it has been and will be dissected enough. So, no need to dive into it.

My gut tells me we bring in someone to compete with Parkey for the job.

 

[beardown07]

I'm not saying get rid of Howard and get a guy who can't play. You can get more than serviceable backs in the 3rd round on an on who would also bring a little more to the passing game than Howard does. Howard was a 5th round draft pick, for example.

I'ma reward yer own type guy. I think it goes along way towards players WANTING to play for your organization.


Not that it matters, but I think Howard's receiving game was a marked improvement this year. He's not Cohen, but he made some pretty good grabs this year.

 

[Nelly]

I'ma reward yer own type guy. I think it goes along way towards players WANTING to play for your organization.


Not that it matters, but I think Howard's receiving game was a marked improvement this year. He's not Cohen, but he made some pretty good grabs this year.

Being able to catch the ball instead of drop it is an improvement, yes. But Howard can't run routes. He isn't a threat in the passing game other than a check-down. He wasn't even really a screen-threat either. That's all.

 

[richig07]

Why? It wouldn't matter at all if we intended on keeping him, and would matter a lot if we intended on making a change.



I disagree entirely. A necessity in today's game is not knowing what's coming. When Howard is in there, you know he's not going to run a pass route more than just circling out of the backfield, and the furthest outside he'll run and be able to hurt you is off tackle. When Cohen is in there and gets the ball in the backfield, you know you just need to hold the edge and force him back inside because he won't go inside.

We need a guy who can bring both of those on the field at the same time, or at least some semblance of both. Otherwise, we're automatically limited in what we can do.

A necessity in today's game is not knowing what's coming

The RB on the field is a tiny fraction of this.

When Howard is in there, you know he's not going to run a pass route more than just circling out of the backfield

You just described the overwhelming majority of RB's in football. Including many very good ones.

When Cohen is in there and gets the ball in the backfield, you know you just need to hold the edge and force him back inside because he won't go inside.

Cohen had a multitude of successful runs cutting back in and up the middle of the field. Most of his big ones seemed to be... actually.

We need a guy who can bring both of those on the field at the same time

You are stuck in the 80's and 90's. Look at New England and the collection of backs they've used for years. Look at ATL on their run to the SB. Look at Philly last year. Look at Denver when they won. Look at Carolina that year. Look at Green Bay when they had those fantastic offenses. For chrissake - LeGarrette Blount had a 3 year stretch where he had the most carries for each SB winning team.

You get 2 or 3 guys who can do everything. It's proven to be just as successful as a feature back. Then you don't have to blow cap space on a position that is probably the least valuable (or close) on an NFL football team in 2018 and the job still gets done just as efficiently

Name the last team with a great feature back to win the Super Bowl? I think since 2005 or so - Ray Rice and Marshawn Lynch may be the only feature backs to be apart of a winner in 12 and 13.

Running backs take a back seat to all 21 other starting positions on the field in 2018 and our situation is pretty damn good.

 

[richig07]

Being able to catch the ball instead of drop it is an improvement, yes. But Howard can't run routes. He isn't a threat in the passing game other than a check-down. He wasn't even really a screen-threat either. That's all.

That's fine. He doesn't have to be.

 

[Nelly]

A necessity in today's game is not knowing what's coming

The RB on the field is a tiny fraction of this.

When Howard is in there, you know he's not going to run a pass route more than just circling out of the backfield

You just described the overwhelming majority of RB's in football. Including many very good ones.

When Cohen is in there and gets the ball in the backfield, you know you just need to hold the edge and force him back inside because he won't go inside.

Cohen had a multitude of successful runs cutting back in and up the middle of the field. Most of his big ones seemed to be... actually.

We need a guy who can bring both of those on the field at the same time

You are stuck in the 80's and 90's. Look at New England and the collection of backs they've used for years. Look at ATL on their run to the SB. Look at Philly last year. Look at Denver when they won. Look at Carolina that year. Look at Green Bay when they had those fantastic offenses. For chrissake - LeGarrette Blount had a 3 year stretch where he had the most carries for each SB winning team.

You get 2 or 3 guys who can do everything. It's proven to be just as successful as a feature back. Then you don't have to blow cap space on a position that is probably the least valuable (or close) on an NFL football team in 2018 and the job still gets done just as efficiently

Name the last team with a great feature back to win the Super Bowl? I think since 2005 or so - Ray Rice and Marshawn Lynch may be the only feature backs to be apart of a winner in 12 and 13.

Running backs take a back seat to all 21 other starting positions on the field in 2018 and our situation is pretty damn good.

A better way of stating this would be to say a guy who's got some speed and ability to make people miss in the open field. Even if he's not running routes, a guy like Gurley needs to be accounted for or else he can take it to the house. Gurley was a high draft pick like Barkley and Elliot so we won't find a guy like that... but someone who's a threat to hurt you pretty bad if he gets the ball in the flat with some space, even if he's not running pass routes. Howard is not a guy that scares you that much, and he's pretty easily covered by a decent linebacker. You put a linebacker on Cohen and you're fucked. For Howard, you want a linebacker that can fill the hole cause Howard will hurt you between the tackles and not much outside them.

It's all about getting matchups. You want a guy on the field you can exploit. Cohen of course is going to break a few big plays but he's usually running sideways when he gets a carry from the backfield as he looks for the edge and avoids taking a hit in the middle of the field. As a defense, you know he's not going to get the ball and take it between the tackles 98% of the time. You know he's going to hurt you much worse in the passing game so you're fine with another DB in there opposed to a linebacker.

I'm not saying we suck, just that we could do better at running back for an offense that makes a lot of it's living exploiting matchups. I'd rather give Nagy another way of dictating what the defense does rather than the other way around. There's no amount of trickery or creative play calling that changes the fact that Howard can't get to the edge faster than almost most any linebacker and Cohen isn't much of a threat to hurt you between the tackles.

 

[Nelly]

Nickel's don't get big money in this league. Callahan will be an easier re-sign than Amos.

Amos has been an absolutely phenomenal safety and saying Callahan is more valuable is head-scratching to me. Amos was 1st team PFF all-pro last season - they rated him as the single best safety in the league. He didn't rate much lower this year. He is BARELY less valuable than Jackson. If he had been as good as 2017 - he may be more valuable.

Long might be brought back because of his leadership/veteran presence on a young team.

I hope we bring Howard back... but could see it going either way. Nagy might want to draft his own RB this year if he likes one projected to fall towards us.

Massie is a slightly above average tackle, but replaceable.

Parkey's release would cut 5.5 million... interpret that how you will. I think it has been and will be dissected enough. So, no need to dive into it.

My gut tells me we bring in someone to compete with Parkey for the job.

Good stuff. I hope Callahan is retained.

The stuff on Amos is exactly why he'd end up likely getting a big deal. If he was going to settle for something reasonable then we probably would have extended him like we did with Goldman. I think Pace knows that Amos will seek out and get a big money deal, and within the context of the team's cap, isn't going to be worth it over the long haul compared to guys like Jackson, Fuller, Mack, Goldman, Hicks, Smith, etc.

 

[wood20ks]

Why? It wouldn't matter at all if we intended on keeping him, and would matter a lot if we intended on making a change.



I disagree entirely. A necessity in today's game is not knowing what's coming. When Howard is in there, you know he's not going to run a pass route more than just circling out of the backfield, and the furthest outside he'll run and be able to hurt you is off tackle. When Cohen is in there and gets the ball in the backfield, you know you just need to hold the edge and force him back inside because he won't go inside.

We need a guy who can bring both of those on the field at the same time, or at least some semblance of both. Otherwise, we're automatically limited in what we can do.

I also like the concept of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Don't get me wrong here BD,but I think it's closer to be being broken as to opposed to as not being broken....

Howard kinda lost me this past season....He just didn't what he once had......I kept waiting for these break out games that never really came till a couple of wks left of the season........
I've read here that it was the blocking scheme that Nagy was using,but was it really.....?
I tend to think it was more him as he has regressed that last 2 seasons in a row compared to his rookie season....
Maybe this year it was the oline.....I don't know,but as Nelly says,maybe it's time for a change there.....

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

I never expected the Bears to keep every FA to be, but we're not going to lose everybody. At least one of Massie/Callahan/Amos will be resigned. If I had to throw out a prediction, I'd go with the Bears keeping Callahan, assuming of course his injury won't last into camp, but that's strictly a guess.

I'm torn on Howard. I personally like the guy, but I struggle seeing him as a Bear in '19. He just doesn't seem to fit in a Nagy-designed offense. Obviously a lot will hinge on the offseason and the draft in particular. Cutting Jordan just for cutting's sake makes zero sense, so somebody has to be drafted/signed as a replacement. And no, as much as I like Cohen, he is in no way shape or form a primary running back. And while we're at it, can we please end the Taquan Mizzell experiment?

I don't see us losing two starters on the OL, at least not without a quality starter that Pace can sign in the offseason. So I think Long sticks around. Parkey can go fuck himself.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Oh, and is this the year the Bears have to decide on invoking the option year in '20 for Lloyd? I think it is, but not sure. Assuming it is, invoke the damn option!!!!!