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Brown, Bell and the next CBA

ducky

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The reforms I would investigate are:
(a) cut the rookie deal to 3 years.
(b) cut tags to 1.

The reason I bolded above is I would like to see if the math works out for the players. On the face of it, it seems like you'd have some players going only 3 years instead of 4 . OTOH, this would shorten the cycle on the use-and-replace system that the teams use to get all they can out of a guy on contract 1 before cutting/tagging/allowing-FA (of course Belicik is the absolute master of this). It would likely cause depth issues, the teams may have to negotiate more 2nd contracts.

Like I say, would like to see some numbers on that, though.

I can understand why a fan of a team who drafts as bad as the Raiders wants to cut rookie deals to 3 year.....


.....

Without the franchise tag, players like Bell and Brown would be paid 20-40% less than they do now.

Without the franchise tag, or more accurate, the threat of the franchise tag, almost everyone of the best QB's and pass rushers would hit free agency. There would be zero reason to sign an extension with the team that drafted you and not peak at what else is out there. And all the money in the league would eventually flow into the pockets of those players.

Every year would look as ridiculous as the NBA offseason does with teams tanking and trading away $$$'s in order to be major players on the free agent market.

Anyone thinking the NFL should get rid of the tag simply doesn't understand the ramifications.

That said....Brown and Bell's situation won't even be a blip on the owners radar. This wasn't a problem with the system....it was a problem with a single franchise and the people mis-managing that franchise.
 
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Diamondeye

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You wouldn't pay them but someone else is. The contract for Bell was Bullshit. That's why he didn't sign it. You eat up the Rooney's little PR squad.

The Steelers failed. Failed to retain their talent and failed to make the playoffs. It's a dying culture there because that's how management behaved.

Bell turned down a contract that would have made him the highest paid RB in the league.

The guy wants to be paid like a WR. He's delusional.

We'll see for what he ends up signing this week.
 

Shanemansj13

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Not a big fan of crybabies but the Steelers’ organization is obviously the problem here. They back their QB who likes to bitch about his teammates behind closed doors. The Steelers can blame themselves for this entire fiasco. Plain and simple. Time to move on though and it looks like they have.
 

Davis_Mike

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Most people complaining about the franchise tag fail to realize that the tag is directly linked to the drastic rise in salaries for premium positions. And thus, the whole league. It's no coincidence that since the changes to tag in the last CBA, the cap has steadily risen year after year.

As for Bell & Brown, the Steelers created that mess on their own.

While I think it was poor decision by Bell to forgo $14.5 mil, he will never come close to fully recouping that money, Bell was well within his rights to sit out.

The Steelers created the mess that enabled Brown to do what he did, force his way out of Pit. The Steelers poor cap management allowed Brown to leverage them. Either way, the Steelers chose to live with the headache of the cap penalty over the headache Brown was causing.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Lol, if there's anything that should be addressed in the next CBA, it's the inherent abuse potential of the franchise tag.

Remember the tag only affects a very small percentage of players. Therefore it is not really that big of a deal to most & not something they will really be worried about during the next CBA. Fans have a tendency to blow this way out of proportion.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Needless to say that these two were able to exploit holes in a system designed to prevent the types of behavior Antonio Brown and Le'veon Bell not only got away with but for which they're in the process of being handsomely rewarded.

Will the owners view this as something to be addressed in the next CBA, or will they pass it off as exceptional circumstances due to demand for the rare talents of Brown and Bell.

I really do not think most players could afford to have bitched their way into dictating a specific sign and trade like Brown, or voluntarily sat out their way to free agency like Bell, but there do seem to be some vulnerabilities revealed that could hurt teams over the long run.

The owner’s? The players will be the one’s at the next CBA looking to get rid of the tags or greatly limit the use of them.

When they are taken away — you can thank the Steelers for that.
 

SoCalWizFan

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The owner’s? The players will be the one’s at the next CBA looking to get rid of the tags or greatly limit the use of them.

When they are taken away — you can thank the Steelers for that.

Again - why would the players worry about this? 90%+ of the NFL players are not in the category where the tag impacts them at all. The CBA process is a game of give and take. If the owners get something the players will ask for something in return. My guess is that most of them would ask for something beyond changing the tagging rules. Why in the hell should most of these guys worry about the excessive contracts & tags for QBs & guys like Bell and Brown?
 

Manster7588

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The reforms I would investigate are:
(a) cut the rookie deal to 3 years.
(b) cut tags to 1.

The reason I bolded above is I would like to see if the math works out for the players. On the face of it, it seems like you'd have some players going only 3 years instead of 4 . OTOH, this would shorten the cycle on the use-and-replace system that the teams use to get all they can out of a guy on contract 1 before cutting/tagging/allowing-FA (of course Belicik is the absolute master of this). It would likely cause depth issues, the teams may have to negotiate more 2nd contracts.

Like I say, would like to see some numbers on that, though.
Problem here is a good number of rookies dont see the field year one, some barely see it year 2 now you give teams one year of play after grooming a guy to be your future?

Besides I doubt the union fights too hard to change draft picks compensation.

I think the NFLPA will fight for 1. higher guaranteed money.
2. Stop the ban of marijuana.
3. Higher percentage of revenues
4. The use of the Franchise Tag.

The league will probably cede the marijuana issue, but will fight hard against the rest.
 

ATL96Steeler

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Regarding Brown...the Steelers have nobody to blame but themselves. They simply let him get carried away with himself and did nothing to stop it. A lot of this falls on Tomlin's shoulders. Bell's situation is different in that he's so delusional in what he believes he's worth, and was willing to leave $14 mil or so on the table in hopes of a bigger deal. Some team may do it, but I'm sure most fans are hoping their team doesn't.

Brown...Clear case of someone not knowing the details which is understandable if you don't follow the team on a regular basis. The only thing PIT could've done with Brown was suspend him and that wasn't going to take effect until next season. I do agree the Tomlin and Colbert/FO have some ownership in why this Brown situation blew up in their face. That goes much deeper than Antonio Brown though...he just happen to be the guy to exposed it.
 

ATL96Steeler

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The Steelers are Fucking Bitches who were too scared financially to pay their players.

Pay attention.

Maybe the other owners should vote to send the Steelers to the AAF after the mockery they made of the entertainment business which they've all created just so people can watch players like Bell and Brown.

The fuck is wrong with you? Blame your team. They acted like cunts and caused all of this.

You're too funny man...lol

PIT needs to clean up some stuff, no doubt, but your hate for the Steelers is what shined through in this post.
 

ATL96Steeler

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Needless to say that these two were able to exploit holes in a system designed to prevent the types of behavior Antonio Brown and Le'veon Bell not only got away with but for which they're in the process of being handsomely rewarded.

Will the owners view this as something to be addressed in the next CBA, or will they pass it off as exceptional circumstances due to demand for the rare talents of Brown and Bell.

I really do not think most players could afford to have bitched their way into dictating a specific sign and trade like Brown, or voluntarily sat out their way to free agency like Bell, but there do seem to be some vulnerabilities revealed that could hurt teams over the long run.

Any post lumping Bell and Brown together is off base imo.

Bell...Right now the Franchise tag clearly favors the team. Every credentialed NFL agent will tell you that. Maybe Bell set a precedent by not playing under the second tag, but he only was able to do that because he was tagged the year before and no doubt was planning on sitting out if tagged again.

He left $14 mil on the table, but he beat the system....pure and simple. Owners probably never envisioned a player not taking the tag money for an entire season.

We've debated the Brown situation enough to know where we stand on that one.

I would look at both of these as isolated cases...not something the league should be trying to tighten the screws on. I will say teams will think twice about using the Franchise tag on a player in back to back seasons. Demarus Lawrence is saying he won't play under the tag in DAL...is that a bluff?
 

Manster7588

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Not a big fan of crybabies but the Steelers’ organization is obviously the problem here. They back their QB who likes to bitch about his teammates behind closed doors. The Steelers can blame themselves for this entire fiasco. Plain and simple. Time to move on though and it looks like they have.
I can agree here, except for the bitching behind closed doors. Bitching will happen but it needs to stay behind closed doors. This goes for the team, for Ben, and for everyone else who's part of the team.

Yes bitch and whine but keep it inside.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Again - why would the players worry about this? 90%+ of the NFL players are not in the category where the tag impacts them at all. The CBA process is a game of give and take. If the owners get something the players will ask for something in return. My guess is that most of them would ask for something beyond changing the tagging rules. Why in the hell should most of these guys worry about the excessive contracts & tags for QBs & guys like Bell and Brown?

Team owners would MUCH rather change franchise tags than give up a bigger percentage of the profits, shelling out more toward benefits, etc.

Hell — NFL players have almost $600 million in their union ‘war chest’ they’ve been saving up for the next CBA battle. The entire league agreed to put their madden royalty checks to the side for 4 years so they can hold out as long as they need to get the CBA done, even if it means sitting out games and boycotting a season.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Team owners would MUCH rather change franchise tags than give up a bigger percentage of the profits, shelling out more toward benefits, etc.

Hell — NFL players have almost $600 million in their union ‘war chest’ they’ve been saving up for the next CBA battle. The entire league agreed to put their madden royalty checks to the side for 4 years so they can hold out as long as they need to get the CBA done, even if it means sitting out games and boycotting a season.

No - I agree with you about the owners. I am stating that the overwhelming majority of players don't give a shit about the tags since it does not affect them. Even if they hold out for a long time it will be for something other than primarily the tags. Most players are not fighting for the rights of Bell, Brown, Julio Junes, etc & a bunch of pretty boy QBs to make even more money. The everyday player is looking at how the future CBA impacts them.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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No - I agree with you about the owners. I am stating that the overwhelming majority of players don't give a shit about the tags since it does not affect them. Even if they hold out for a long time it will be for something other than primarily the tags. Most players are not fighting for the rights of Bell, Brown, Julio Junes, etc & a bunch of pretty boy QBs to make even more money. The everyday player is looking at how the future CBA impacts them.

More guaranteed money in the contracts is what will be a huge sticking point. The guys who will be the one’s getting those contracts are the Bell’s, the Brown’s, the Julio Jones and the pretty boy QB’s. What happens is — they raise the bar for salary expectations at their positions and in turn, others make more when it is their turn to hit the market.

So while you can say it won’t be an issue at the next CBA — I think you are wrong. Bare minimum — I think they limit the number of times you can tag a player to once.

Of course there will be larger fish to fry, but the NFLPA has been stocking up cash and ammunition to fight it out for the long haul with the owner’s. I think it is going to be a long, ugly drawn out mess and since the players have already been planning ahead by putting money to the side — I’d bet we see a strike in 2 years.
 

Schmoopy1000

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I am not gonna feel bad for any player, that gets guaranteed money that pays them top cash for their position.
I also dont bitch when they want the security blanket in a long term contract that gives them more up front money (just in case)
There are no victims here when talking the tag.
Just negotiations.

Everyone taking the players side. Says what if he gets a career ending injury during a tag year.

but the same can be said the other way.

Owners side. What if a team gives 84 mil. guaranteed & that player gets career ending injury in the 1st year of that long term contract.

Since you are being paid to play. Logically. the fran tag is the more fair contract. In these bad case scenarios.
 
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