Boys post game

[duke1861]

Oh, I would love a real GM in here. Someone who's not gonna sign every ex-Panther he can find. I thought Kyle should have got promoted but he pissed off Dan.

I was a little upset that Ron didn't vouch for Kyle. With Gibbs' backing I think Ron had the power to keep Kyle.

Ron wanted to run the show, bring in his guys and he had every right to do that. He hit on Dotson, BSJ, but he's had some big misses.

It's his roster now and he's gotta own it.

The problem is that the coach centric model is almost a conflict of interest. Coaches think in 1-year increments whereas GMs think in terms of years.

There is no real direction with this team. It appears nothing we do is with a plan or a purpose. It's just random moves and hoping it all sticks.

It's clear they never had a plan from the beginning. It's been a year-to-year type strategy. No idea on how to build a franchise. Rivera can't build a unit without having another unit fall apart.

You can't tell me Matsko and Turner didn't see the OLine issues in camp? It is insane what is happening; no debates are even necessary with Rivera running this team in the ground.

 

[kbso83432]

The guards were always the "if" question .... and the D. The defense has played the run well the past two weeks but not so much for the pass defense. I would rather have kept Scherff but understood $17 mill is a lot for a guard. No clue why they let Flowers go. Remember how Baldy talked him and his physicality up last year?

Bruce didn't spend everything in the bank and of course that is why Cousins left.

That cap space went to Samuel (good move), Jackson (not so good), Wentz I am holding judgement, Allen (good move) and Terry (good move)

When Ron signed his first ex-Panther or two I thought "okay maybe he knows they can." It quickly became clear he was bringing in people that helped him get fired the first time. Where is that outstanding line coach now? Asking for a friend.

Wentz has 13 weeks to show whether they should keep him or not. I don't blame him for today. He wasn't great but he was getting hurried on three step drops. If RR was decimate the line so you have to dink and dunk then why trade for Wentz? Heinicke can do that.

duke my friend .... you can't marry a girl and expect her to become the woman you want her to be instead of who she is. You are a big fan of history, stats etc. ..... what does Snyder's 23+ year history tell you he is going to be? I don't think Andy Reid would work here .... figuratively or for real. Most of what you say is valid ..... after the Shanahan debacle I lost faith, after Cousins walked I have been hanging by a thread. Back to the marriage scenario ... being a Redskin fan for 58 years it is hard not to root for them but I don't sweat it anymore. There is Kirk, Kyle, Sean and Jacksonville has very nice uniforms.

I'll hope that they owners this year but don't expect it. If it doesn't happen it will be business as usual.

I don't think there is any amount that would have kept Scherff here. I think he got tired of the losing, looked around at a half filled stadium and said I'm out. I don't understand the Flowers thing either.

I give Kirk shit for being fake and disingenuous, but the truth is there was a time when Kirk really wanted to be here. Him rubbing Scot's head and asking "how you like me now," was Kirk basically begging to be loved and begging for a contract.

To your point Heinicke can check down. With this line I have no idea what Wentz is. He's not seeing the field well right now though. Had McLaurin wide open deep. Didn't see it. I think it was 3rd or 4th and two when he went to TM, but he had Samuel open in the flat for an easy 1st down. Line or not, he has to be better.

 

[kbso83432]

The problem is that the coach centric model is almost a conflict of interest. Coaches think in 1-year increments whereas GMs think in terms of years.

There is no real direction with this team. It appears nothing we do is with a plan or a purpose. It's just random moves and hoping it all sticks.

It's clear they never had a plan from the beginning. It's been a year-to-year type strategy. No idea on how to build a franchise. Rivera can't build a unit without having another unit fall apart.

You can't tell me Matsko and Turner didn't see the OLine issues in camp? It is insane what is happening; no debates are even necessary with Rivera running this team in the ground.

I think they were counting on Norwell and Turner. If Norwell and Turner were what they were five years ago, this offense would be humming right now.

 

[duke1861]

I don't think there is any amount that would have kept Scherff here. I think he got tired of the losing, looked around at a half filled stadium and said I'm out. I don't understand the Flowers thing either.

I give Kirk shit for being fake and disingenuous, but the truth is there was a time when Kirk really wanted to be here. Him rubbing Scot's head and asking "how you like me now," was Kirk basically begging to be loved and begging for a contract.

To your point Heinicke can check down. With this line I have no idea what Wentz is. He's not seeing the field well right now though. Had McLaurin wide open deep. Didn't see it. I think it was 3rd or 4th and two when he went to TM, but he had Samuel open in the flat for an easy 1st down. Line or not, he has to be better.

Wentz is NOT Jeff George but they have similar attributes in that they have cannons of an arm. They both rely on their talent instead of intellect. Wentz thinks he can squeeze in any throw to his WR. He also holds on to the ball way too long. Wentz seems to be a good person; however, he cannot find a home. He is the only QB in history to start an opener for 3 different teams under the age of 30.

We have a couple of issues here:

1. Do we dedicate 27 million to Wentz and live with his erratic play in 2023?
2. If we believe in Wentz, how do we build the appropriate OLine to offer him (or the starting QB) protection? We need at least a LG, RG, and maybe a RT. We would not have the appropriate cap and would not have a 2nd round pick to help with the build.
3. Do we release Wentz and use that 27 million to build the roster?

 

[duke1861]

I think they were counting on Norwell and Turner. If Norwell and Turner were what they were five years ago, this offense would be humming right now.

Again, Rivera and Matsko have to know that.

Also, lets say the offense was better, which it would be with above average Guards, the defense is a disaster.

 

[kbso83432]

Wentz is NOT Jeff George but they have similar attributes in that they have cannons of an arm. They both rely on their talent instead of intellect. Wentz thinks he can squeeze in any throw to his WR. He also holds on to the ball way too long. Wentz seems to be a good person; however, he cannot find a home. He is the only QB in history to start an opener for 3 different teams under the age of 30.

We have a couple of issues here:

1. Do we dedicate 27 million to Wentz and live with his erratic play in 2023?
2. If we believe in Wentz, how do we build the appropriate OLine to offer him (or the starting QB) protection? We need at least a LG, RG, and maybe a RT.
3. Do we release Wentz and use that 27 million to build the roster?

I dont think its gonna cost 27m to keep Wentz at this rate.. If they move on from him it will be because they don't believe in him. I don't see anyone trying to outbid us for him.

If he kills it down the stretch then we've got our guy and we'll give him whatever he asks for. The offensive line has to be completely rebuilt.

We can get off Jackson and Fuller post June if we want without much dead cap.

 

[kbso83432]

 

[duke1861]

I dont think its gonna cost 27m to keep Wentz at this rate.. If they move on from him it will be because they don't believe in him. I don't see anyone trying to outbid us for him.

If he kills it down the stretch then we've got our guy and we'll give him whatever he asks for. The offensive line has to be completely rebuilt.

We can get off Jackson and Fuller post June if we want without much dead cap.

He is under contract next year for 27 million. Are you suggesting we cut him and then resign him? He can turn it around but we have all seen what he can do in his career. He falls apart against good defenses. Nothing has really changed here with that?

We simply don't have the cap space and picks to overhaul the OLine if Wentz is on the books. Keep in mind, the secondary is a disaster and LB unit needs help.

Carson Wentz Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

 

[countryroads316]

He is under contract next year for 27 million. Are you suggesting we cut him and then resign him? He can turn it around but we have all seen what he can do in his career. He falls apart against good defenses. Nothing has really changed here with that?

We simply don't have the cap space and picks to overhaul the OLine if Wentz is on the books. Keep in mind, the secondary is a disaster and LB unit needs help.

Carson Wentz Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Either roll with Howell or a 1st round rookie

 

[kbso83432]

Again, Rivera and Matsko have to know that.

Also, lets say the offense was better, which it would be with above average Guards, the defense is a disaster.

I agree on the guards. It's their job to know if guys are done, but Ron has a blindspot for Ex Panthers.

For some reason it feels like the defense is real close to getting their shit together.

 

[kbso83432]

He is under contract next year for 27 million. Are you suggesting we cut him and then resign him? He can turn it around but we have all seen what he can do in his career. He falls apart against good defenses. Nothing has really changed here with that?

We simply don't have the cap space and picks to overhaul the OLine if Wentz is on the books. Keep in mind, the secondary is a disaster and LB unit needs help.

Carson Wentz Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Carson Wentz contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

You gotta read that again. We can get off Wentz with zero cap hit after this year. That's the whole reason we ate the 27m this year and didn't extend him and spread it out. Just in case he sucked.

We can get off Wentz after this year clean.

 

[countryroads316]

I really like Will Levis of Kentucky reminds me alot of Josh Allen of the Bills

 

[kbso83432]

I really like Will Levis of Kentucky reminds me alot of Josh Allen of the Bills

He's got wheels too. Tough guy as well. Jacked his fingers up and stayed in the game.

 

[Sportster 72]

The problem is that the coach centric model is almost a conflict of interest. Coaches think in 1-year increments whereas GMs think in terms of years.

There is no real direction with this team. It appears nothing we do is with a plan or a purpose. It's just random moves and hoping it all sticks.

It's clear they never had a plan from the beginning. It's been a year-to-year type strategy. No idea on how to build a franchise. Rivera can't build a unit without having another unit fall apart.

You can't tell me Matsko and Turner didn't see the OLine issues in camp? It is insane what is happening; no debates are even necessary with Rivera running this team in the ground.

Isn't that what I said .... why would you expect it to change after 23 years?

 

[chillerdab]

I dont know what to make of wentz to be honest. He makes some pretty throws and also some pretty shitty throws.

With an outstanding oline, would he make more of the former than the latter? He looked pretty good vs the jags, but then again the jags arent that good.

I wouldnt offer wentz $25 million a season. If he fails here - which its looking like its a realy possibility - then he wont command that much on the open market anyway. I would resign Heinicke to a modest deal, draft another qb, and see if Howell is ready.

This is assuming RR is fired and a GM is hired.

 

[Rowdy]

Pretty simple. Like I’ve said in the past until this team gets a qb they believe in, it’ll be very hard to put it all together in one season. So many assets are used for finding such a qb. Wentz would probably be alright with an excellent oline. RR was and is between a rock and a hard place. He tried upgrading the most important position but had to sacrifice elsewhere.

As for Snyder he does either need to sell or get the fuck out of dc. He stands no chance of having a formidable football team in dc. The league made him hire wright who seems to fuck up about everything he’s been involved in, including defending Wentz on twitter

 

[gkekoa]

Can we all now admit that:

1. Wentz is NOT the guy and never was. The trade will go down as one of the worst in the history of the team.
The excuse of the OLine, Turner, Rivera, etc, has now been put to rest.
2. Rivera needs to go.

Not sure it can be made any more clear.

Overreact much. Wentz is going bust but we gave up a third and a conditional third.

Rivera does need to go….you got that correct.

 

[countryroads316]

Overreact much. Wentz is going bust but we gave up a third and a conditional third.

Rivera does need to go….you got that correct.

no the conditional 3rd will be a 2nd rounder if he plays 70 percent of the snaps which would be a huge mistake because I see us drafting top 10 and that 2nd rounder would be almost like a 1st

 

[gkekoa]

no the conditional 3rd will be a 2nd rounder if he plays 70 percent of the snaps which would be a huge mistake because I see us drafting top 10 and that 2nd rounder would be almost like a 1st

Even at a second rounder, the mistake is minimal. It is t like we gave up three firsts.

 

[Brock2005]

I you can’t effectively measure or evaluate ANY QB, when he’s getting the most pressure in the league… and then there’s this…