Biggest winners out of the 2019 draft...

[Wamu]

Seemed to me defense was often a rumor in the 80s (at least early-mid). 90s a different story though.

The Bad Boys roughed MJ up. They didn't play D. They committed assaults. Celtics/76ers. No love loss there & punches thrown. Celtics/Lakers had their dust ups as well. They played D back in the 80's. Just a much different & more physical style. Obviously that kinda stuff wouldn't go over very well in todays NBA. Pussies.

 

[tlance]

That's because you are probably one of the many who think everything is based on D. Missed shot? good D. Made shot? Bad D.

Lakers of mid-80s were below avg. in points per 100 possessions, as well as the years in the Shaq/Kobe years. Same with Kobe/Pau title teams.

were there a lot of title teams who couldn't score?

No.

That is a stupid thing to say. And I have never said anything resembling it.

Quite the opposite actually.

Remember our Klay Thompson conversations?

You kept saying he was overrated because of his defensive rating. I kept saying I don't care what the rating says because I can watch him forcing his man into tough shots. Sometimes they go in.

Reality is, in order to outscore the very best teams, you need to be able to both score and defend.

And of course you need to be able to score.

 

[Wamu]

How many blocks did Kareem have? Worthy and Magic were not bad defenders at all. That team was huge and long. Youre not going to beat a fundamentally sound Celtic team with just offense. Hell Bird was a gritty and smart defender.

I still hate the Showtime Lakers.

And shut up @ChiefsLakers67 & @trojanfan12!

 

[Wamu]

No.

That is a stupid thing to say. And I have never said anything resembling it.

Quite the opposite actually.

Remember our Klay Thompson conversations?

You kept saying he was overrated because of his defensive rating. I kept saying I don't care what the rating says because I can watch him forcing his man into tough shots. Sometimes they go in.

Reality is, in order to outscore the very best teams, you need to be able to both score and defend.

And of course you need to be able to score.

Oh shit not Klay Thompson again? Has Kevin Love been mentioned yet?

 

[SJ76]

I still hate the Showtime Lakers.

And shut up @ChiefsLakers67 & @trojanfan12!

I remember seeing them you in the old forum around 1988 or 1987. I was about 11-12 yrs old. Was on the floor pregame and remember Rambis looking like a giant.

Lakers Celtics were some of the first games I remember watching as a kid.

 

[SJ76]

Oh shit not Klay Thompson again? Has Kevin Love been mentioned yet?

Klay is in my top 5 all around players in the league today. That’s playing defense and offense for all yous tuning in back east.

 

[Wamu]

I remember seeing them you in the old forum around 1988 or 1987. I was about 11-12 yrs old. Was on the floor pregame and remember Rambis looking like a giant.

Lakers Celtics were some of the first games I remember watching as a kid.

Now that's pretty cool being on the floor like that. Never got the opportunity to see a live Celtics/Lakers game.

 

[dtgold88]

Hang on a minute... what are you saying now? Is it that the Celtics lost because of the Cavs offense , or is it that the CAVS WON BECAUSE OF THE CELTICS LUCKING DEFENSE (which is my opinion ~ I believe the rest remaining on the conversation too)?
Same with the Cavs against GSW... It wasn't that the Cavs were wipped out because they couldn't score... they were wiped out because they couldn't stop the Warriors scoring (again... luck of defense).

Same with Celtics against the Bucks this season... Creltics didn't loose because Giannis, or Khris, or other scored more... They lost because the Bucks restricted their effectiveness in scoring.

I never mentioned the Celtics vs. the cavs.was talking Cavs/GS 2016

 

[Wamu]

Klay is in my top 5 all around players in the league today. That’s playing defense and offense for all yous tuning in back east.

Back east?

*runs outside for a second to see if the Rocky Mountains are still there* Yep!


I think Klay's a helluva player.

 

[dtgold88]

No.

That is a stupid thing to say. And I have never said anything resembling it.

Quite the opposite actually.

Remember our Klay Thompson conversations?

You kept saying he was overrated because of his defensive rating. I kept saying I don't care what the rating says because I can watch him forcing his man into tough shots. Sometimes they go in.

Reality is, in order to outscore the very best teams, you need to be able to both score and defend.

And of course you need to be able to score.

You said you don't recall a team in last 40 years to win a title and not play good D. Basic principle of D is stopping the other team from scoring. In same amount of possessions as all other teams, the Lakers were below avg.

No amount of "I go by what I see" can change that. what you saw were teams scoring on LA more often than most other teams.

The Klay discussion here is silly as he is one guy and we are talking about a team.

Of course you need to score and defend. That's my point. I'd say balance is most important. Nothing to prove D is more important.

 

[buckalis]

I never mentioned the Celtics vs. the cavs.was talking Cavs/GS 2016

They lost because of the same reasons... just look at the stats... offense of the winner is always close to the one of the regular season, while offense of the one who looses is worst... but it isn't because offensive abilities of the players decreased... it's rather because the better defense wins the game (series).

 

[dtgold88]

They lost because of the same reasons... just look at the stats... offense of the winner is always close to the one of the regular season, while offense of the one who looses is worst... but it isn't because offensive abilities of the players decreased... it's rather because the better defense wins the game (series).

You think it was defense that had Barnes missing wide open shots what seemed like the entire series?

 

[Wamu]

You think it was defense that had Barnes missing wide open shots what seemed like the entire series?

I'm gonna go out on a limb & say Barnes is to blame for Barnes missing wide open shots.


"You think"

Dammit man don't ask him to do that. Only bad things will happen.

 

[dtgold88]

I'm gonna go out on a limb & say Barnes is to blame for Barnes missing wide open shots.


"You think"

Dammit man don't ask him to do that. Only bad things will happen.

I guess if I want to credit my team I'll give the D credit for making sure he was left open.

 

[SJ76]

Back east?

*runs outside for a second to see if the Rocky Mountains are still there* Yep!


I think Klay's a helluva player.

*runs back to the utility room to throw a beer in the freezer*

 

[Wamu]

*runs back to the utility room to throw a beer in the freezer*

Enjoy.



I ate an edible about an hour ago. Feeling pretty good.

 

[buckalis]

You think it was defense that had Barnes missing wide open shots what seemed like the entire series?

I do.... Although I know you will insist that it was Kyrie to blame for "missing wide open shots" against the Bucks this season...

No... it wasn't any of the above you claim in both cases... The real "wide open shots" he missed were to the usual percentage as with all season... the rest he missed, were NOT "wide open shots" but rather the oponent's eefense forcing "out of balance" shots made...
Basketball is a fantastic strategy game for coaches next only to chess... If you can get your opponent "off balance", then the rim "widens" for you and "shrinks" for your opponent... It's all a defense process result.

Again... look at the stats in all cases... they don't lie! They can't lie... Winner in all cases has no better offense, but the defeated has worst offense... It only means that the better defense that acieved to restrict the opponents offense won!

 

[tlance]

You said you don't recall a team in last 40 years to win a title and not play good D. Basic principle of D is stopping the other team from scoring. In same amount of possessions as all other teams, the Lakers were below avg.

No amount of "I go by what I see" can change that. what you saw were teams scoring on LA more often than most other teams.

The Klay discussion here is silly as he is one guy and we are talking about a team.

Of course you need to score and defend. That's my point. I'd say balance is most important. Nothing to prove D is more important.

So, maybe you found 1 from over 30 years ago.

Congrats!

Doesn't change the fact that defense is extremely important in basketball.

By the way, people saying defense matters is not equivalent to saying offense doesn't.

 

[dtgold88]

I do.... Although I know you will insist that it was Kyrie to blame for "missing wide open shots" against the Bucks this season...

No... it wasn't any of the above you claim in both cases... The real "wide open shots" he missed were to the usual percentage as with all season... the rest he missed, were NOT "wide open shots" but rather the oponent's eefense forcing "out of balance" shots made...
Basketball is a fantastic strategy game for coaches next only to chess... If you can get your opponent "off balance", then the rim "widens" for you and "shrinks" for your opponent... It's all a defense process result.

Again... look at the stats in all cases... they don't lie!

You pretty much proved my point. You are among the many who think everything is defense. Missed shot? Good D. Made shot? Bad D.

Guys miss shots without good D played FYI.

 

[dtgold88]

So, maybe you found 1 from over 30 years ago.

Congrats!

Doesn't change the fact that defense is extremely important in basketball.

By the way, people saying defense matters is not equivalent to saying offense doesn't.

First, you were the one with your usual extreme comment as said you don't think there was one in 40 years. If you don't like that, don't expand your extreme comment so far. second, I found 3-4 examples and all were just from one team (LA). 2 were in the 2000s.

who said defense doesn't matter? I only said offense just as important.