belachick as good as guy lombardo (60's packers coach) ?

[GNG]

Not a Packers fan, but how in hell can you get Lombardi wrong?

Only folks with dementia.

 

[Rex Racer]

LOL! I can't even comment on the absurdity of the rest of your post.

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. Paul Brown revolutionized the modern passing game. Bill Walsh was the wide receiver's coach at the time.

 

[Rex Racer]

Walsh refined Paul Brown's Cincy offense, rebranded as the West Coast Offense... often taking credit for it when it was not his invention.

Here's a nifty paragraph from Walsh's Wiki page;

"In 1968, Walsh moved to the AFL expansion Cincinnati Bengals, joining the staff of legendary coach Paul Brown. It was there that Walsh developed the philosophy now known as the "West Coast Offense", as a matter of necessity. Cincinnati's new quarterback, Virgil Carter, was known for his great mobility and accuracy but lacked a strong arm necessary to throw deep passes. Thus, Walsh modified the vertical passing scheme he had learned during his time with the Raiders, designing a horizontal passing system that relied on quick, short throws, often spreading the ball across the entire width of the field.[6] The new offense was much better suited to Carter's physical abilities; he led the league in pass completion percentage in 1971."

Just one little problem with it and it is summed up in the next paragraph;

"Walsh spent eight seasons as an assistant with the Bengals. Ken Anderson eventually replaced Carter as starting quarterback, and together with star wide receiver Isaac Curtis, produced a consistent, effective offensive attack. Initially, Walsh started out as the wide receivers coach from 1968 to 1970 before also coaching the quarterbacks from 1971 to 1975."

I guess we are supposed to believe that the lowly WR coach was revolutionizing the modern passing game

 

[Ricky Roma]

It is a tougher Tim. That can’t be argued

Sure it can be argued. It takes less overall talent to achieve success in todays game, and given the rule changes c/w salary cap, the QB plays a bigger role in determining wins vs losses now more than at any time in history. The Pats lucked into an all timer with Brady, and had most of the defensive pieces in place. It's a very similar argument in regarding the best QB ever, because too much of that stupidity comes down to 'rings.' It's easier to win the SB in today's game as an elite QB, because again...that position plays a bigger part determining wins/losses today.

The whole 'he/they've been to 8 SB's and won 5' and simply chalk it up to being THAT much better than everybody else withOUT actually any thought behind it.....that is just mindless groupthink IMO. Or simply a product to hype whatever is current.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Sure it can be argued. It takes less overall talent to achieve success in todays game, and given the rule changes c/w salary cap, the QB plays a bigger role in determining wins vs losses now more than at any time in history. The Pats lucked into an all timer with Brady, and had most of the defensive pieces in place. It's a very similar argument in regarding the best QB ever, because too much of that stupidity comes down to 'rings.' It's easier to win the SB in today's game as an elite QB, because again...that position plays a bigger part determining wins/losses today.

The whole 'he/they've been to 8 SB's and won 5' and simply chalk it up to being THAT much better than everybody else withOUT actually any thought behind it.....that is just mindless groupthink IMO. Or simply a product to hype whatever is current.

Brady’s success is more a product of Belichick. Not the other way around. If it takes less overall talent today, then that makes coaching even more important.

I don’t expect to change your mind. We can leave it at that.

 

[richig07]

Personally, I prefer Don Shuller and Bill Washington

George Haylas was a good pre-SB era coach

 

[richig07]

It's a very similar argument in regarding the best QB ever, because too much of that stupidity comes down to 'rings.' It's easier to win the SB in today's game as an elite QB

I actually may venture to guess that elite QB's had more success with titles a decade ago and prior. As opposed to the last decade. In fact, has a QB with one of these mega 100 million dollar contracts ever won a SB? I guess the corpse of Peyton?

Brady is the only guy with more than one right now.

 

[Montalban]

Walsh refined Paul Brown's Cincy offense, rebranded as the West Coast Offense... often taking credit for it when it was not his invention.

Yeah, that Paul Brown offense with Jim Brown sure was a West Coast thing. If Walsh copied anyone it was Don Coryell.

 

[Montalban]

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. Paul Brown revolutionized the modern passing game. Bill Walsh was the wide receiver's coach at the time.

LOL! Nice try. Paul Brown's offense was hand it to Jim Brown.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Brady’s success is more a product of Belichick. Not the other way around. If it takes less overall talent today, then that makes coaching even more important.

I don’t expect to change your mind. We can leave it at that.

Really Belichick is below .500 and only1 playoffs in 8 years w/o Brady, Guess Jordan was a product of Phil Jackson

 

[Rex Racer]

LOL! Nice try. Paul Brown's offense was hand it to Jim Brown.

Good lord

 

[Ricky Roma]

Brady’s success is more a product of Belichick. Not the other way around. If it takes less overall talent today, then that makes coaching even more important.

Billy Belly was 5-13 (2000 and the first 2 games of 2001) with Bledsoe at QB. Insert Brady. 11-3 the rest of the year.....

That was Belichick's greatest 'tactical desicion' in the history of his coaching....turning around and telling Brady to go into the game. The reality is, they both need each other for their teams' successes.

 

[Montalban]

Good lord

LOL! I hate to keep laughing at you but I can't tell if you are serious or not about the Paul Brown nonsense.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Really Belichick is below .500 and only1 playoffs in 8 years w/o Brady, Guess Jordan was a product of Phil Jackson

its different with only 5 players on the court vs 22 on the field.

 

[sonnyblack65]

its different with only 5 players on the court vs 22 on the field.

I know that but the one constant since the Pats starting winning in 01 was Brady. If Bledsoe doesn't get injured and Belichick has another dismal season, rumors were that he would be out of NE. You think Rams won because of Martz? Sure they had a talented team but Kurt Warner was the difference just like he was on your team, taking them to the SB. Great QB's like the Brees, Peytons, Big Ben, Rodgers, Favre etc always keep their teams in the mix, coaches not so much

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Billy Belly was 5-13 (2000 and the first 2 games of 2001) with Bledsoe at QB. Insert Brady. 11-3 the rest of the year.....

That was Belichick's greatest 'tactical desicion' in the history of his coaching....turning around and telling Brady to go into the game. The reality is, they both need each other for their teams' successes.

True. Walsh had a losing record the 2 years before Montana was named the starter. I believe the first year Montana was named the starter from day one they won the SB.

Again, you're a niner fan, i'm not going to change your mind.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I know that but the one constant since the Pats starting winning in 01 was Brady. If Bledsoe doesn't get injured and Belichick has another dismal season, rumors were that he would be out of NE. You think Rams won because of Martz? Sure they had a talented team but Kurt Warner was the difference just like he was on your team, taking them to the SB. Great QB's like the Brees, Peytons, Big Ben, Rodgers, Favre etc always keep their teams in the mix, coaches not so much

I don't disagree. The same can be said for Montana. I just think BB is the GOAT for coaching. Walsh is up there, but BB is in a league of his own.

 

[sonnyblack65]

I don't disagree. The same can be said for Montana. I just think BB is the GOAT for coaching. Walsh is up there, but BB is in a league of his own.

It's all subjective and up to everyone's opinion. Alot of people have BB as the best and I have him currently at 6th with Lombardi, Noll, Landry, Shula and Walsh in top 5 in any order. I'd put Gibbs at 7th doing it with 3 diff Qb's and unfortunately don't know about Brown, before my time to rank him in top 5 along with Halas. Lombardi was too but guy was a legend and they named the frigging trophy after him/ Plus i have seen some tape on him and he was the guy

 

[molsaniceman]

It's all subjective and up to everyone's opinion. Alot of people have BB as the best and I have him currently at 6th with Lombardi, Noll, Landry, Shula and Walsh in top 5 in any order. I'd put Gibbs at 7th doing it with 3 diff Qb's and unfortunately don't know about Brown, before my time to rank him in top 5 along with Halas. Lombardi was too but guy was a legend and they named the frigging trophy after him/ Plus i have seen some tape on him and he was the guy

love me some vince

 

[sonnyblack65]

After about thinking what a bitch Shula is, gonna knock him out of my top 5 and put BB in there