B12 expansion

[starbigd]

Here's a clue for y'all.....OU isn't giving up their piece of the pie either. Neither is Kansas.

They all make too much off tier 3 than they'd get elsewhere right now. So unless you can put a proposal on the table that generates them a larger profit, it won't happen.

Texas isn't the problem here as a university. The money is. And fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the revenues for this conference are generated IN Texas.

There really isn't a way to close the money gap WITHOUT poaching a large brand name program. Just isn't possible.

So they only way out other than that is simply to join another conference. OU and Texas together makes the money worth it for another conference, not separate.

 

[BTHOtu]

OU and OSU will go to the SEC

 

[HuskerinBig10]

for more own edification

I looked at USA Todays finance numbers. I assume Rights and Licensing is where Conference payouts goes

The Power 5 Big Dogs(in my mind), to be used for reference

TX 2010 40.1 million 2015 62.9 million
Ohio State 2010 44.5 million 2015 57.1 million
Florida State 2010 25.9 million 2015 49.5 million
Alabama 2010 39.1 million 2015 56.6 million
Oregon 2010 20.1 million 2015 42.2 million

The Big 12 little dog
Iowa State 2010 15.7 million 2015 34.1 million

The expansion candidates

UCONN 2010 23.5 million 2015 25.5 million
Cincinnati 2010 11 million 2015 16.3 million
USF 2010 14 million 2015 16.1 million
Boise St 2010 10.1 million 2015 15 million
UCF 2010 7.3 million 2015 8.7 million
CSU 2010 5.6 million 2015 7.5 million
Memphis 2010 5.6 million 2015 7.3 million
Houston 2010 6.0 million 2015 7.2 million
BYU ??? my guess, it would be the best of the bunch

Looking at the rights & Licensing numbers no wonder teams want to move up. If UCF, CSU, Memphis, or Houston can go to the Big 12 it is safe to assume that those schools can expect a HUGE jump in revenue.

Ticket Sales(in dollars, an idea of fan base)
UCONN 2010 11.5 million 2015 9.9 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Cincinnati 2010 6.4 million 2015 5.7 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
USF 2010 6.4 million 2015 4.2 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Boise St 2010 7.1 million 2015 7.9 million
UCF 2010 6.0 million 2015 4.4 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Memphis 2010 9.1 million 2015 7.4 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Houston 2010 3.5 million 2015 4.3 million
CSU 2010 2.5 million 2015 3.9 million
BYU ???my guess, it would be the best of the bunch

CSU does not seem to have much of a fan base. When you look at the candidates, five of them had declining ticket sales.

Ticket Sales
Iowa State 2010 11.4 million 2015 14.2 million
Kansas 2010 21.4 million 2015 20.0 million (a decline)
Texas Tech 2010 15 million 2015 11.7 million (a decline)

and for giggles, which school that left the Big 12 actually had the lowest increase in Rights & Licensing? Nebraska.

Missouri 120% gain from Big 12 2010 to SEC 2015
Colorado over 100% gain from Big 12 2010 to PAC 12 2015
A&M nearly 100% gain from Big 12 2010 to SEC 2015
Nebraska 30% gain from Big 12 to 2015 B1G

In 2010 Nebraska was 2nd in the Big 12 in rights and licensing behind Texas.

The biggest winner of all UTAH
2010 UTAH 7.2 million MWC or whatever it was
2015 UTAH 29.6 million PAC 12
over 300% gain.

Even with all that gain Utah has made, they still soak their students for student fees and rely on the University to balance their expenses.

On the other hand, Nebraska has not charged a student fee nor needed University money for a very, very long time.

 

[HuskerinBig10]

BTW, if my guess on Rights & Licensing is correct, no idea what Oklahoma is complaining about.

OU rights & licensing 54.8 million which means they are making more than Florida State of the ACC.

Oklahoma R&L
2010 27.2 million
2015 54.8 million

 

[HuskerinBig10]

Almost every school in the B1G and SEC make $40,000,000 plus from Rights & Licensing(Private schools unknown). Rutgers will but they are on the scaled down ownership of the B1G Network. You can take a guess that Northwestern and Vanderbilt do, but I am not making that assumption.

That is 25 of 28 schools make $40,000,000 plus.(no Rutgers, Northwestern, or Vanderbilt)

I am guessing that six schools total from the Big 12 and ACC make $40,000,000(Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State). I will take a wild guess that Baylor, Notre Dame, and Duke also make $40,000,000 plus in R&L.

That is six of 25 schools make $40,000,000 plus or 19 of 25 make less than $40,000,000 plus.

Since the B1G Network and SEC Network have a chance to make more money, R&L will probably increase for those conferences. Not to mention, the B1G new contracts.

Eleven schools in the SEC have ticket sales of $23,000,000 or more.
Eight schools in the B1G have ticket sales of $23,000,000 or more.
Three schools in the ACC have ticket sales of $23,000,000 or more.(I assume Notre Dame does)
Two schools in the Big 12 have ticket sales of $23,000,000 or more.

The Big 12 and the ACC do not have conference networks, no chance for that revenue stream to grow.

The University of Texas revenue stream from the LHN is guaranteed to grow 3% per annum. This year Texas will make around $13,130,000 from the LHN.(if my napkin math is any good) Texas will not make $15,000,000 from the LHN until 2021.

As you can tell, I did not look at the PAC 12. If you care, you can do it.

 

[Red_Alert]

Red_Alert and I just love throwing gasoline on the fire.

Where did West Virginia go?

I will disagree, Texas will demand that OSU be in the same division, because, well, it was that way when it was in the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma(state of) in the same division.

I think Texas will demand OSU and dump UTEP, because Stillwater is closer than El Paso and with Texas it is always about allowing mommas to see their boys play.

Well tejas will throw down another empty threat to bolt if they aren't setting the rules, so Okie Lite in the south it is.

South

Texas
Baylor
Oklahoma St
Rice
Houston
Texas St
Texas San Antonio

North

TCU
Texas Tech
UTEP
Kansas St
Iowa St
SMU
North Texas

WVU sees the light and goes off to ACC or SEC

waiting for my rainbow from tejas jeff

.

 

[Red_Alert]

Here's a clue for y'all.....OU isn't giving up their piece of the pie either. Neither is Kansas.

They all make too much off tier 3 than they'd get elsewhere right now. So unless you can put a proposal on the table that generates them a larger profit, it won't happen.

Texas isn't the problem here as a university. The money is. And fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the revenues for this conference are generated IN Texas.

There really isn't a way to close the money gap WITHOUT poaching a large brand name program. Just isn't possible.

So they only way out other than that is simply to join another conference. OU and Texas together makes the money worth it for another conference, not separate.

Because Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, and A&M all saw so much value in those tier 3 rights compared to the conference stability in their new homes. lulz

Doesn't Purdue ($32 million from BTN) and Vandy ($32 million from SEC Network) make similar (if not more) coin than OU or Kansas?

The collapse is near. tejas will be left to under-achieve in the pile of shit they created that barely qualifies as a P5. It's the tejas way.

.

 

[Red_Alert]

 

[GoldRusher]

OU and OSU will go to the SEC

If it gets bad enough and both are unhappy (its not for now) then I could see OU and WVU making propositions to the SEC for their new west and east members. I don't think OSU is a serious option, no need for 2 teams from Oklahoma for the SEC and WVU was close to being a member of the SEC last go round anyway.

 

[starbigd]

Because Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, and A&M all saw so much value in those tier 3 rights compared to the conference stability in their new homes. lulz

Doesn't Purdue ($32 million from BTN) and Vandy ($32 million from SEC Network) make similar (if not more) coin than OU or Kansas?

The collapse is near. tejas will be left to under-achieve in the pile of shit they created that barely qualifies as a P5. It's the tejas way.

.

The problem with your post.....NONE of those schools had thriving 3rd tier networks pulling in upwards of 9 million a year......

So yeah, that comment was a FAIL from the outset.

Remind me again WHAT network exists that's going to pay OU and Kansas this money?

 

[HuskerinBig10]

The problem with your post.....NONE of those schools had thriving 3rd tier networks pulling in upwards of 9 million a year......

So yeah, that comment was a FAIL from the outset.

Remind me again WHAT network exists that's going to pay OU and Kansas this money?

Nebraska was close in 2008, or you can say it was over $9,000,000 per year with the retained rights.

"The average worth of this total package over the 13 years is more than $11 million each year."

Huskers, IMG College Sign Landmark Media Contract

 

[starbigd]

Nebraska was close in 2008, or you can say it was over $9,000,000 per year with the retained rights.

"The average worth of this total package over the 13 years is more than $11 million each year."

Huskers, IMG College Sign Landmark Media Contract

So I'll say this again......nobody was making huge third tier money......and there isn't a network that's going to pay out at those levels per school in today's market. Adding teams to a another P5 will dilute the payout per school, networks only have so much money. Right now the financials don't work out. The B12 could be stuck.

All I want is quality football. I don't really care where we play.

 

[Texas Jefe]

Yup. Anyone with half a brain knows tejas isn't giving up their plantation. Same reason they'll never join another conference.
It's always been an empty threat and it's cost the Big 12 footprint in Colorado and Missouri. It cost the Big 12 nationally in Nebraska, and A&M. Those 4 schools all benefited their respective conferences footprints for their networks.

Next up are the beautiful flights of national brands Oklahoma and Kansas.

Hence.....The new SWC

South

Texas
Baylor
UTEP
Rice
Houston
Texas St
Texas San Antonio

North

TCU
Texas Tech
Oklahoma St
Kansas St
Iowa St
SMU
North Texas


Tic-Toc, Tic-Toc

yup, we'll win that conference then beat your ass in the playoffs

 

[Texas Jefe]

Red_Alert and I just love throwing gasoline on the fire.

Where did West Virginia go?

I will disagree, Texas will demand that OSU be in the same division, because, well, it was that way when it was in the Big 12. Texas and Oklahoma(state of) in the same division.

I think Texas will demand OSU and dump UTEP, because Stillwater is closer than El Paso and with Texas it is always about allowing mommas to see their boys play.

nope, we're joining your conference, in your division.

 

[Texas Jefe]

for more own edification

I looked at USA Todays finance numbers. I assume Rights and Licensing is where Conference payouts goes

The Power 5 Big Dogs(in my mind), to be used for reference

TX 2010 40.1 million 2015 62.9 million
Ohio State 2010 44.5 million 2015 57.1 million
Florida State 2010 25.9 million 2015 49.5 million
Alabama 2010 39.1 million 2015 56.6 million
Oregon 2010 20.1 million 2015 42.2 million

The Big 12 little dog
Iowa State 2010 15.7 million 2015 34.1 million

The expansion candidates

UCONN 2010 23.5 million 2015 25.5 million
Cincinnati 2010 11 million 2015 16.3 million
USF 2010 14 million 2015 16.1 million
Boise St 2010 10.1 million 2015 15 million
UCF 2010 7.3 million 2015 8.7 million
CSU 2010 5.6 million 2015 7.5 million
Memphis 2010 5.6 million 2015 7.3 million
Houston 2010 6.0 million 2015 7.2 million
BYU ??? my guess, it would be the best of the bunch

Looking at the rights & Licensing numbers no wonder teams want to move up. If UCF, CSU, Memphis, or Houston can go to the Big 12 it is safe to assume that those schools can expect a HUGE jump in revenue.

Ticket Sales(in dollars, an idea of fan base)
UCONN 2010 11.5 million 2015 9.9 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Cincinnati 2010 6.4 million 2015 5.7 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
USF 2010 6.4 million 2015 4.2 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Boise St 2010 7.1 million 2015 7.9 million
UCF 2010 6.0 million 2015 4.4 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Memphis 2010 9.1 million 2015 7.4 million (Yes, a DECLINE)
Houston 2010 3.5 million 2015 4.3 million
CSU 2010 2.5 million 2015 3.9 million
BYU ???my guess, it would be the best of the bunch

CSU does not seem to have much of a fan base. When you look at the candidates, five of them had declining ticket sales.

Ticket Sales
Iowa State 2010 11.4 million 2015 14.2 million
Kansas 2010 21.4 million 2015 20.0 million (a decline)
Texas Tech 2010 15 million 2015 11.7 million (a decline)

and for giggles, which school that left the Big 12 actually had the lowest increase in Rights & Licensing? Nebraska.

Missouri 120% gain from Big 12 2010 to SEC 2015
Colorado over 100% gain from Big 12 2010 to PAC 12 2015
A&M nearly 100% gain from Big 12 2010 to SEC 2015
Nebraska 30% gain from Big 12 to 2015 B1G

In 2010 Nebraska was 2nd in the Big 12 in rights and licensing behind Texas.

The biggest winner of all UTAH
2010 UTAH 7.2 million MWC or whatever it was
2015 UTAH 29.6 million PAC 12
over 300% gain.

Even with all that gain Utah has made, they still soak their students for student fees and rely on the University to balance their expenses.

On the other hand, Nebraska has not charged a student fee nor needed University money for a very, very long time.

what this says to me is none of them are candidates that will enable some company to fork over enough money to make a Big12 network viable (i.e. pay out enough bucks to make Texas, OU, Kansas willing to forgo what they are now making in Tier 3 money).

Yes, whoever goes to a P5 conference is going to make a whole hell of a lot of money compared to what they are now making (with BYU being a question mark). But that really has nothing to do with the current problem of the Big12: Only thing that will bring the big bucks are big programs, and they'll have to poach someone to get them. Even then, doubt any company is going to throw that big money around again for a conf network. Not now, in the current climate.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

If we expand, only the new schools benefit.
All the existing schools Big 12 schools get nothing in return and likely lose money.

We are overpaid now.
The Networks are not giving us more money again. This is 2016 and things have changed.
They overpaid us once in 2010/2011 because they were terrified about the chaos it would cause.
Overpaying the Big 12 was the lesser or two potential evils.

If we expand, Texas and Kansas leave immediately to whoever offers the best deal.
Baylor, TCU, and Tech will try and leave as well maybe with less offers or no offers.

Oklahoma and Okie Jr. can figure out what to do without the Jayhawks and Horns.
The Sooners will love playing natural rivals Cincinnati and UConn instead.

 

[psaboy]

I can hardly wait for that Texas vs Rice, Texas State and TX-SA games. What a joke that conference has turned into and will turn into, reaching for bottom of the barrel institutions to try to be relevant.

 

[Sleepy T]

Well tejas will throw down another empty threat to bolt if they aren't setting the rules, so Okie Lite in the south it is.

South

Texas
Baylor
Oklahoma St
Rice
Houston
Texas St
Texas San Antonio

North

TCU
Texas Tech
UTEP
Kansas St
Iowa St
SMU
North Texas

WVU sees the light and goes off to ACC or SEC

waiting for my rainbow from tejas jeff

.

No offense, Red Alert, but Big 12 apocalypse is more likely to happen this this set up, I know you all are just having fun with it. The value and interest of this Big 12 outside of Texas would be zilch.

You also assume that the ACC or SEC would actually take the 'Eers. There is speculation (albeit not from any major news outlet) that they applied for membership for both conferences during the old Big East blowup and were rejected. I don't think the ACC would take them under any circumstance, and they bring little monetary value to the SEC, so that is a long shot too. The Big 10 makes the most sense for WVU, but I don't think they would be welcome there either. Just my 2cents.

 

[ralphiewvu]

No offense, Red Alert, but Big 12 apocalypse is more likely to happen this this set up, I know you all are just having fun with it. The value and interest of this Big 12 outside of Texas would be zilch.

You also assume that the ACC or SEC would actually take the 'Eers. There is speculation (albeit not from any major news outlet) that they applied for membership for both conferences during the old Big East blowup and were rejected. I don't think the ACC would take them under any circumstance, and they bring little monetary value to the SEC, so that is a long shot too. The Big 10 makes the most sense for WVU, but I don't think they would be welcome there either. Just my 2cents.

Had Mizzou not accepted the SEC offer WVU is in the SEC, simple as that.

The ACC will have no choice but take WVU once the domino's start rolling. Christ you clowns let Louisville in, yet you think there's no chance WVU gets in?

Get real turkey.

 

[Wild Turkey]

OU and OSU will go to the SEC

The SEC isn't gong to take 2 schools from the same state. The way their revenue stream is structured that would be incredibly stupid as it would dilute the gains.