Attrition is a real real problem, when you look back at it:

[Forty_Sixand2]

I did a quick and dirty look through our 2008-2011 recruiting classes and made a few lists:

Our total commits in each class (number who left for unproductive reasons)

2008: 31 (16)
2009: 22 (8)
2010: 19 (6)
2011: 21 (4)

I considered players who did not leave because of graduation or early entry into the NFL as unproductive losses to attrition. Yes that means that OVER HALF of our 2008 class was unproductive. Overall more than a third of our total recruits in these four years (the backbone of this team) were unproductive losses. Some never made to campus because of grades etc, or prepped and chose to go elsewhere. Others came and left.

Here is a list of all of the losses and the category they fall into to the best of my memory:

LEFT TEAM
Ben Barber (WR) 2008
Xavier Boyce (WR) 2008
JuJu Clayton (QB) 2008
Lyndell Gibson (LB) 2008
Isaiah Hamlette (DL) 2008
Jake Johnson (LB) 2008
Joe Jones (DL) 2008
Quillie Odom (LB) 2008
Dwight Tucker (DL) 2008
Lorenzo Williams (LB) 2008
Telvion Clark (LB) 2009
Kory Gough (OL) 2009
James Hopper (DB) 2009
Theron Norman (DB) 2009
Nubian Peak (RB) 2009
Jerrodd Williams (DB) 2009
Nick Dew (DB) 2010
Brian Laiti (LB) 2010
Jerome Lewis (TE) 2010
Theron Norman (DB) 2010
Dominique Patterson (LB) 2010
Ricardo Young (QB) 2010
Adeboye Aromire (DB) 2011
James Farrow (DB) 2011


NEVER MADE IT TO CAMPUS
Austin Fuller (WR) 2008
Leon Mackey (DL) 2008
Derrick McCoy (WR) 2008
Kendrick Pressley (AT) 2008
Peter Rose (AT) 2008
Allen Stephens (LB) 2008
Tyrell Edwards (TE) 2009
DeAntre Rhodes (DL) 2009
Chris Hall (TE) 2011
Robert Lockhart (WR) 2011

GRADUATED AND EXPENDED ELIGIBILITY
Jarrett Boykin (WR) 2008
Eddie Whitley (DB) 2008

LEFT EARLY
Ryan Williams (RB) 2008
Jayron Hosley (DB) 2009
David Wilson (RB) 2009


As far as unproductive losses, we have 5-7 wide receivers (depending on where the athletes would have played), 8 linebackers (including guys who played at Whip) and 7-9 defensive backs. I am not sure how this compares to other schools, but it seems pretty staggering to me, considering the fact that we pride ourselves in getting underrated guys but the right kind of players. I am not sure what to make of this (SandC program issues leading to injuries, not proper scouting, pigeon holing players, or just plain dumb luck) but it is worth considering.

 

[hokiegrad]

this goes right along with that...

Pre-Shane Recruiting and the Debacle in Chapel Hill | The Key Play

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Holy fuck, I didn't see that. Williams was here for a year or two and then transferred. he even got some playing time.

 

[hokiegrad]

AB referenced the TKP piece on his blog and said he'd be doing a similar story later in the week, if anyone wants to read more on this topic.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

just tweeted him, ha ha, i guess we are all kind of thinking along the same lines...

I first wondered how the hell we got so thin at DB and started looking.

 

[hokiegrad]

it's sad, really. There is some definite talent above that we could have used. Obviously all schools deal with attrition. It's hard to say (at least for me) how much of this is beyond the norm.

Attrition has played a role. Some of these guys should have been looked over by the coaches, in hindsight. Some of them, there was just no way to predict that it wasn't going to work out.

There have been other factors as well, of course.
1) Not pulling in enough guys at some positions in the first place. Especially after attrition had set in there, or when guys were on campus but you knew it wasn't heading the right direction and you'd better start looking for the next guy.
2) Lack of true stars. We've got a lot of good players, some very good, but nobody you'd take in the early rounds of the next NFL draft (unless LT really lights on fire from here on out).

Perfect storm.

 

[wildturkey]

I'd say the attrition is affecting the most on defense. But I'd say its only part of the problem. The other half, imo, is we just aren't pulling in talented enough recruits (at least not within the last few years). I know a lot us like to take pride in the fact VT takes 3 star or lower, sometimes even walk on guys, and turns them into good college players and sends some to the NFL. I do as well, its a good thing.

But that only takes you so far. To win consistently at the national level, which should be the program's goal, you have to consistently pull in 5 and 4 star guys. You have to have both great coaching AND great talent, you can't just have one or the other. With Shane here, it looks like we might be trending in a positive direction in that aspect. In the meantime, you're stuck with what happens you have a bunch of mediocre to good (but not great) guys only to cut your depth in half with attrition.

 

[VTfoozball]

I'd say the attrition is affecting the most on defense. But I'd say its only part of the problem. The other half, imo, is we just aren't pulling in talented enough recruits (at least not within the last few years). I know a lot us like to take pride in the fact VT takes 3 star or lower, sometimes even walk on guys, and turns them into good college players and sends some to the NFL. I do as well, its a good thing.

But that only takes you so far. To win consistently at the national level, which should be the program's goal, you have to consistently pull in 5 and 4 star guys. You have to have both great coaching AND great talent, you can't just have one or the other. With Shane here, it looks like we might be trending in a positive direction in that aspect. In the meantime, you're stuck with what happens you have a bunch of mediocre to good (but not great) guys only to cut your depth in half with attrition.

Yeah old foozball knows what he's talking about when he dumps on some of these 3 star guys VT gets

 

[HoHumHokie]

Tech Talk LIVE! ‏@VT_TTL
Coach Gray says he wants to get guys settled back into their natural positions. Bonner playing FS & Jarrett playing rover.

 

[Ragingcroc]

Tech Talk LIVE! ‏@VT_TTL
Coach Gray says he wants to get guys settled back into their natural positions. Bonner playing FS & Jarrett playing rover.

We really haven't even had a safety a few games now.

 

[wildturkey]

Tech Talk LIVE! ‏@VT_TTL
Coach Gray says he wants to get guys settled back into their natural positions. Bonner playing FS & Jarrett playing rover.

Not sure I'd move Jarrett. He seems fine.

 

[hokiegrad]

an unhealthy amount of that attrition was 4* and high 3* (rivals 5.7) guys. We need to not only sign these guys but get them on campus and keep them, unless it turns out the coaches goofed and they were either overrated or not right for our system. In which case we have a different problem.

4*: Quillie Odom (LB) 2008, Jerrodd Williams (DB) 2009, Nick Dew (DB) 2010

high 3*: Kendrick Pressley (AT) 2008, Dwight Tucker (DL) 2008, Lorenzo Williams (LB) 2008, Telvion Clark (LB) 2009, Theron Norman (DB) 2009, DeAntre Rhodes (DL) 2009, Brian Laiti (LB) 2010, Jerome Lewis (TE) 2010, Adeboye Aromire (DB) 2011, James Farrow (DB) 2011

 

[Sleepy T]

Yeah. The attrition on defense (in particular at DB and CB) is very alarming. Some of that the coaches had no control over. You are always going to miss on a few, but this is more than a few. Some of them just didn't work out for whatever reason (playing time, etc.), probably just not as good as we had hoped, and some left for injuries or personal reasons (Dew, Norman, Hopper, Farrow, Williams). Nonetheless, it is showing now. It makes me wonder how much better off we would be with some of these guys in the mix in the secondary over say Cole and Bonner?? At the least they could be providing some solid depth. Linebacker has been another area of concern. In particular we whiffed on Anthony and Hughes (noted in the TKP article). They would have been huge players for us..Anthony is a starter and Hughes a major contributor. It is not nearly as concerning in regards to the OL/DL and WR positions. We have never been great recruiters there. I like to think we have improved or at least not regeressed in our recruiting on DL and WR as opposed to recent years. OL??? The jury is still out. YOu also wonder how much better this secondary would be with Jayron..

 

[EvanGWatkins]

Yeah. The attrition on defense (in particular at DB and CB) is very alarming. Some of that the coaches had no control over. You are always going to miss on a few, but this is more than a few. Some of them just didn't work out for whatever reason (playing time, etc.), probably just not as good as we had hoped, and some left for injuries or personal reasons (Dew, Norman, Hopper, Farrow, Williams). Nonetheless, it is showing now. It makes me wonder how much better off we would be with some of these guys in the mix in the secondary over say Cole and Bonner?? At the least they could be providing some solid depth. Linebacker has been another area of concern. In particular we whiffed on Anthony and Hughes (noted in the TKP article). They would have been huge players for us..Anthony is a starter and Hughes a major contributor. It is not nearly as concerning in regards to the OL/DL and WR positions. We have never been great recruiters there. I like to think we have improved or at least not regeressed in our recruiting on DL and WR as opposed to recent years. OL??? The jury is still out. YOu also wonder how much better this secondary would be with Jayron..

Boye would be getting lots of time right now, that kid could hit!

 

[Sleepy T]

I think Shane Beamer has brought a new mentality to recruiting and this is a good thing. Between last years class and this years it should be star studded with LBs (Clarke, Edmunds, McKinnon, DVD, Motuapuaka) and DBs (Greene, Manning, Tookes, Clark, Facyson, Fuller, Fisher)....among others. There are 1-*****, 4-****, and 7-Borderline****, among that group. They should all be starters or solid 2nd stringers by their junior years IMO...not special teamers, not "contributors"...but interchangeable and solid across the board. This is why traditional powers are so good. They have above average players across the board who play and contribute plenty as underclassmen..and they rule the field and play alot as upperclassmen...even at second string (two-deep).

We have always been good enough at QB and RB, but I am hoping for some gems/above average players on the OL and WR out of these classes. Hopefully next year will be a big haul on the DL with special, special players...OLine recruiting still has me worried and noone on the board makes me change that thinking.

 

[hokiegrad]

AB referenced the TKP piece on his blog and said he'd be doing a similar story later in the week, if anyone wants to read more on this topic.

here's the link:
http://blogs.roanoke.com/andybitter...virginia-techs-defensive-struggles-this-year/

 

[hokiegrad]

the LB numbers jump out to me even more than the DB situation. No more than one LB per year has stuck in a long time. I knew we've been thin at LB, but I didn't realize it went that far back. We should be so glad to have had Grimm and Tyler contribute, because things would really have been bad without them. And we had better find some ILBs in the 2014 class because we are about to be very thin there. Fast forward a year and a half from now, with Bruce Taylor, Tariq Edwards, and Jack Tyler gone. If Edmunds sticks at TB, the only ILBs we'll have on roster are Chase Williams, Derek DiNardo, Josh Trimble, Deon Clarke, Devin Vandyke, Andrew Motuapuaka, and whoever we can sign in the class of 2014 (who I'm sure we'd like to redshirt). And two of those guys are walk ons. Better hope one of them is another Grimm/Tyler, or we will have no depth.

Not that the DB situation has been good, either. We managed to skate through with very thin depth there for a while, but that eventually catches up to you. At least the 2012 and 2013 classes have things looking up there.

 

[VTfoozball]

Basically before Shane got to VT they recruited like crap for the most part when you consider the success on the field and the packed stadium for games at Lane. A bunch of tired, lazy, uncharismatic old men not getting the job done on the recruiting trail. But hey Beamer has had his buddies around and that's what's important

 

[Sleepy T]

I wouldn't say they necessarily recruited like crap over the last 10-12 years, the last few? Maybe so. And a lot of that has just been guys leaving for various reasons other than they suck. Flowers, Chancellor, Hall, Fuller, Hosley at DB. Throw in V. Hall, Adibi, Grimm, Taylor at LB just to name a few. That's some good players right there fooz.

They tried their best on Nicholson, Anthony, Hughes (to name a few), etc. To say they totally haven't been trying or just totally don't give a fuck is just stupid man. They missed on some prospects, this isn't the SEC where there are 4 stars in the 3 deep. Enough already....

Things will improve in recruiting and Play....on D anyway

 

[VTfoozball]

It's all relative. When you have men that old they are not putting forth the same effort they once did. Hite said himself that he was burnt out on recruiting because of recruits flip flopping