Andy Dalton - Ice in his veins!

[cincygrad]

That white boy could dance!

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Did you know....

Dalton is on pace for about 4400 yards passing, a 65% completion, 25+ TD's and a Rating over 93% so far?

I know his last couple games have really helped him out, but that is not bad for as much doom and gloom this board has had regarding Dalton just a few weeks ago. He needs to keep trending upwards with his game, but if he does, he will dwarf even these stats, which is a median per game times 16 for him to this point. The Bengals have never had a QB put up that many yards passing. Palmer set the single season passing record back in 07 (for the Bengals) with barely over 4100 yards. Yards are not everything, and of course, a lot of those yards are YAC, but I do not think the long bomb is quite as important as everyone makes it out to be, as long as Dalton picks his moments to open up defenses.

I think we should give Vince Young a chance to come in and compete for a backup QB slot this next year. He had a lot of talent, was a top level draft pick, has mobility, a cannon for an arm. He was a little nuts, but he is a backup QB. I think we should take a chance in the offseason and sign him.

 

[bengaldoug]

Did you know....

Dalton is on pace for about 4400 yards passing, a 65% completion, 25+ TD's and a Rating over 93% so far?

I know his last couple games have really helped him out, but that is not bad for as much doom and gloom this board has had regarding Dalton just a few weeks ago. He needs to keep trending upwards with his game, but if he does, he will dwarf even these stats, which is a median per game times 16 for him to this point. The Bengals have never had a QB put up that many yards passing. Palmer set the single season passing record back in 07 (for the Bengals) with barely over 4100 yards. Yards are not everything, and of course, a lot of those yards are YAC, but I do not think the long bomb is quite as important as everyone makes it out to be, as long as Dalton picks his moments to open up defenses.

I think we should give Vince Young a chance to come in and compete for a backup QB slot this next year. He had a lot of talent, was a top level draft pick, has mobility, a cannon for an arm. He was a little nuts, but he is a backup QB. I think we should take a chance in the offseason and sign him.

What you have mistaken for doom and gloom was simply fact based criticism of his previously mediocre performance. Until this past Sunday he did nothing to make us think he had mastered the basic responsibilites of an NFL quarterback. You may as well not have a quarterback if he cannot threaten a defense downfield. Andy finally did that last week. He needs to do that on a regular basis for the criticism to go away. I believe he can, but I'm not yet sure he will. My comments concerning Sir Andrew will always come from what he shows me, in as objecive a way as a pessimistic homer like me can express.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

What you have mistaken for doom and gloom was simply fact based criticism of his previously mediocre performance. Until this past Sunday he did nothing to make us think he had mastered the basic responsibilites of an NFL quarterback. You may as well not have a quarterback if he cannot threaten a defense downfield. Andy finally did that last week. He needs to do that on a regular basis for the criticism to go away. I believe he can, but I'm not yet sure he will. My comments concerning Sir Andrew will always come from what he shows me, in as objecive a way as a pessimistic homer like me can express.

I can live with that if you are not jumping from one side of the cliff to the other from week to week based on performance.

 

[bengaldoug]

I expect more performances like last Sunday, but almost nobody performs like that every week. Just keep attacking downfield, and playing with confidence and I think the results will be good enough.

 

[NCBengal]

As long as they allow him to drop back more than 3 steps, he will be fine. His best completions were when he dropped back 5-7 steps and he stayed tall in the pocket even as it was collapsing. I hate that fucking roll out play to his right too... stop calling that shit.

I was most impressed with him staying in the pocket rather than ducking/dancing when things got tight.

 

[Cincyfan78]

As long as they allow him to drop back more than 3 steps, he will be fine. His best completions were when he dropped back 5-7 steps and he stayed tall in the pocket even as it was collapsing. I hate that fucking roll out play to his right too... stop calling that shit.
I was most impressed with him staying in the pocket rather than ducking/dancing when things got tight.

The one where AJ was wide open for a TD?

I don't mind the rollout plays, but what they need is a dragging WR/TE coming from the back side to the middle of the field. All too often on these plays, you only have 2 options, both running routes to the same side the QB is rolling out to. The defense follows the QB rolling out, and that immediately causes the receiving options to be well blanketed by extra defenders in addition to the ones covering the WR/TE.

 

[cincygrad]

The one where AJ was wide open for a TD?

I don't mind the rollout plays, but what they need is a dragging WR/TE coming from the back side to the middle of the field. All too often on these plays, you only have 2 options, both running routes to the same side the QB is rolling out to. The defense follows the QB rolling out, and that immediately causes the receiving options to be well blanketed by extra defenders in addition to the ones covering the WR/TE.

The AJ touchdown was a play action. I think NC was talking about the designed roll out without the play action..... Or, otherwise known as 'the play that never works.'

I'd like to see Dalton hit a few more deep passes when the receiver isn't beating his man by 3 yards. That's when we'll know he has arrived.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

The AJ touchdown was a play action. I think NC was talking about the designed roll out without the play action..... Or, otherwise known as 'the play that never works.'

I'd like to see Dalton hit a few more deep passes when the receiver isn't beating his man by 3 yards. That's when we'll know he has arrived.

That throw to Eifert in the endzone, backshoulder was in very tight contested area. The TD to Jones the week before where it was over the defender, at the back of the end zone, where Jones could leap but had time to get down safely in the endzone was beautiful. Andy and our TE's are starting to hit their stride with that TE seam route down the middle. Green is so dang fast and with our play action roll outs and all sorts of funky pre-throw routines, Green is hard to throw to deep for Dalton. Dalton basically has to throw the ball as far as he possible can (which is like 55 to 60 yards max) and Green is having to stop and wait for it. I like those routes, but I think if they plan on throwing it deep like that to Green, they need to start in the shotgun and have a two step drop back and then just throw it as far as he can basically.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The AJ touchdown was a play action. I think NC was talking about the designed roll out without the play action..... Or, otherwise known as 'the play that never works.'

I'd like to see Dalton hit a few more deep passes when the receiver isn't beating his man by 3 yards. That's when we'll know he has arrived.

The TD pass was a play action, but Andy play faked left, and rolled right.

He didn't exactly set his feet before the throw, not helping his throwing effort.

But, I do agree. Time and time again, we see the roll-out, and QB's almost always end up having to throw the ball away.

I still say it goes back to how the play itself is set up most of the times. You need a WR/TE to delay drag on the opposite side. Once the defense over shifts you can look for the WR sitting in the middle side of the field, to the far side.

Of course, this wouldn't exactly be something you would want a QB with a questionable arm to be doing...

 

[cincygrad]

That throw to Eifert in the endzone, backshoulder was in very tight contested area. The TD to Jones the week before where it was over the defender, at the back of the end zone, where Jones could leap but had time to get down safely in the endzone was beautiful. Andy and our TE's are starting to hit their stride with that TE seam route down the middle. Green is so dang fast and with our play action roll outs and all sorts of funky pre-throw routines, Green is hard to throw to deep for Dalton. Dalton basically has to throw the ball as far as he possible can (which is like 55 to 60 yards max) and Green is having to stop and wait for it. I like those routes, but I think if they plan on throwing it deep like that to Green, they need to start in the shotgun and have a two step drop back and then just throw it as far as he can basically.

I've never questioned whether he can throw it back-shoulder or twenty yards to a guy that slipped behind coverage in the endzone. I questioned whether he can hit a receiver in stride on a go-route..... The sort of throw that he has routinely missed this season.

And no, I don't think it's arm strength. There were two passes he missed to AJ on Sunday that weren't much more than 30 yards or so in the air. He can throw plenty further than that point..... For whatever reason he just doesn't let it rip and put it out there.

 

[bengaldoug]

I've never questioned whether he can throw it back-shoulder or twenty yards to a guy that slipped behind coverage in the endzone. I questioned whether he can hit a receiver in stride on a go-route..... The sort of throw that he has routinely missed this season.

And no, I don't think it's arm strength. There were two passes he missed to AJ on Sunday that weren't much more than 30 yards or so in the air. He can throw plenty further than that point..... For whatever reason he just doesn't let it rip and put it out there.

I listened to the Thursday show with Lance and Lapham on WLW. Lapham said he asked Andy about the 82 yard TD and Andy said AJ was so wide open he didn't want to overthrow him, and he knows he can just put it on him and he can easily catch the ball and break a tackle, just as he did, and take it to the house, exactly as I speculated. FWIW.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I listened to the Thursday show with Lance and Lapham on WLW. Lapham said he asked Andy about the 82 yard TD and Andy said AJ was so wide open he didn't want to overthrow him, and he knows he can just put it on him and he can easily catch the ball and break a tackle, just as he did, and take it to the house, exactly as I speculated. FWIW.

I always say, better to overthrow than to under throw. When you under throw, you run the risk of INT...when you over throw, normally the only person with a chance to catch the ball is the WR.

But, I do see what he's saying. It's better to have a long completion, even if it ends up leading to a tackle instead of a TD, than have a complete miss. To that, I do agree.

 

[flamingrey]

I listened to the Thursday show with Lance and Lapham on WLW. Lapham said he asked Andy about the 82 yard TD and Andy said AJ was so wide open he didn't want to overthrow him, and he knows he can just put it on him and he can easily catch the ball and break a tackle, just as he did, and take it to the house, exactly as I speculated. FWIW.

QB's don't throw the ball with the expectation that their receiver will break a tackle. AJ was wide open and Andy severely underthrew him. I do buy that he didn't want to overthrow his so he wanted to leave it a little short. But Andy left it WAY short. He has little accuracy down field and it reflected in the pass.

 

[Cincyfan78]

QB's don't throw the ball with the expectation that their receiver will break a tackle. AJ was wide open and Andy severely underthrew him. I do buy that he didn't want to overthrow his so he wanted to leave it a little short. But Andy left it WAY short. He has little accuracy down field and it reflected in the pass.

This is not true. According to PFF, he's 9th in the league at 42% (I think it was) completion on passes over 20 yards.

Where the issue is, while the WR's are catching those passes, some could be going for TD's if they were to hit the WR in stride. Something the % doesn't take into account.

 

[bengaldoug]

My point is he doesn't lack the strength in his arm. He can get it out there, but he often doesn't. And I wish he would have underthrown the one to AJ in the end zone in the playoff game, rather than overthrowing it. At least AJ would have had a chance to make a play on it.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

My point is he doesn't lack the strength in his arm. He can get it out there, but he often doesn't. And I wish he would have underthrown the one to AJ in the end zone in the playoff game, rather than overthrowing it. At least AJ would have had a chance to make a play on it.

Maybe this is in the back of his mind all the time now that he had an entire offseason to be slammed by media and fans alike. I am not going to over throw it, I am going to give AJ a chance to at least make a play on it.

Just a thought.

 

[Cincyfan78]

My point is he doesn't lack the strength in his arm. He can get it out there, but he often doesn't. And I wish he would have underthrown the one to AJ in the end zone in the playoff game, rather than overthrowing it. At least AJ would have had a chance to make a play on it.

I do agree, there are times an underthrow is better.

I also agree that the deep pass is not about just pure arm strenght, but about timing and expectation. The QB being able to see the play develop and KNOW that the WR is going to be open, and getting the ball out there earlier so that the WR can run under it.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I do agree, there are times an underthrow is better.

I also agree that the deep pass is not about just pure arm strenght, but about timing and expectation. The QB being able to see the play develop and KNOW that the WR is going to be open, and getting the ball out there earlier so that the WR can run under it.

I do not disagree, btu I am saying maybe this is in the back of his head now which is causing issues when releasing it causing him to "ginger" it. Just a thought.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I do not disagree, btu I am saying maybe this is in the back of his head now which is causing issues when releasing it causing him to "ginger" it. Just a thought.

I don't know the "why", but I agree it seems he thinks about it too much. By the time he trusts himself, or the WR to be open, the timing has already passed to hit the WR in stride. In order to make up for that lost time, he'd have to have a better arm. This is where guys with stronger arms have the one-up...they can afford to wait that extra second or two and still lay it out there.