Andrew Luck signed thru 2021

[HaroldSeattle]

This is exactly my thoughts on Fitzpatrick. One good season doesn't eliminate all the terrible years he has had. I would just much rather pay that lower tier QB low money and use the rest of the money to actually have a great player on the roster. Heck I would have much rather seen the Jets sign Chase Daniel as at least he has some decent upside and is still cheap.

Your theory of building up the team and going with a crap QB has one flaw. With the rest of the team being good how do you find a Franchise QB? The bad teams get to cherry pick the draft for QBs and a team that has a good roster but no QB is left sifting thru the remaining QBs hoping to hit on a over looked gem. The odds of success are going against you.

 

[cdumler7]

Your theory of building up the team and going with a crap QB has one flaw. With the rest of the team being good how do you find a Franchise QB? The bad teams get to cherry pick the draft for QBs and a team that has a good roster but no QB is left sifting thru the remaining QBs hoping to hit on a over looked gem. The odds of success are going against you.

Aren't they going against you though if you continue to pay big money for an average QB? I mean Jay Cutler and Matthew Stafford to me are the poster kids for this very thought. They are average QB's that look like they should be more so teams continue to pay them big money yet their teams continue just to be mediocre. The coaches stick with the player because like ThereIsAMoose said that if you get rid of that QB and the team bombs then most likely the team fires the coaching staff and the next coaching staff is the one that gets to move on with the new QB. Still to me they get fired either way. If the team continues to be mediocre year in and year out then after a few years they still get let go. So at least for me I would rather chance it by building a great roster around a mediocre to bad QB that you are not paying big bucks for. We have at least seen those teams win a Super Bowl every once in a while.

 

[chf]

Jets have a lot of talent right now, but it's aging.

Marshall 32
Forte 30
Decker 29
Mangold 32
Clady 29
Giacomoni 30

Soon they'll will be in a full rebuild mode. Fitz was willing to do a one year deal for 15 million, but no...the Jets want to pay him 15 for the following season, but insist that he sign for 3 years in order to make it happen. Doesn't make sense to me.

Heh, I love how you snuck Giacomini onto that list.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Aren't they going against you though if you continue to pay big money for an average QB? I mean Jay Cutler and Matthew Stafford to me are the poster kids for this very thought. They are average QB's that look like they should be more so teams continue to pay them big money yet their teams continue just to be mediocre. The coaches stick with the player because like ThereIsAMoose said that if you get rid of that QB and the team bombs then most likely the team fires the coaching staff and the next coaching staff is the one that gets to move on with the new QB. Still to me they get fired either way. If the team continues to be mediocre year in and year out then after a few years they still get let go. So at least for me I would rather chance it by building a great roster around a mediocre to bad QB that you are not paying big bucks for. We have at least seen those teams win a Super Bowl every once in a while.

Perhaps if you can't land the right QB the best course is to bank the money you save, trade your older stars, and hope you can get a shot at a real potential franchise QB in the draft. If the Jets have to go with Geno, they shouldn't of sign Forte and they may as well trade their WRs for draft capital.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Heh, I love how you snuck Giacomini onto that list.

I know ....right!

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Perhaps if you can't land the right QB the best course is to bank the money you save, trade your older stars, and hope you can get a shot at a real potential franchise QB in the draft. If the Jets have to go with Geno, they shouldn't of sign Forte and they may as well trade their WRs for draft capital.

I think they wanted to trade an excess D-lineman (they don't want to pay an entire Dline elite money anyways) in Wilkerson for just that. Asked for a 1st round pick from the Bears, iirc. As I said earlier in the thread, they played chicken with Wilkerson and the QB position, and now they're screwed either way.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You and I obviously have disagreed on Osweiler. I think he is an average at best starter in this league moving forward and you think he was worth the investment because the Texans had the money available. To me just because you have the money available doesn't mean you just go spend it on mediocre talent. I get that they haven't had a great QB situation in quite some time. That doesn't mean panic and go sign a mediocre player to a ridiculous deal though. That is how you continue to stay a mediocre team. I would rather have spent that money bolstering the rest of my roster. Such as maybe try to bring in an Olivier Vernon to really add another dynamic to that defense. I mean that move alone could make them maybe the top front-7 in the entire NFL and make life much easier for Clowney and Watt. I would hate to face that unit ever. Or maybe you bolster the OL to make life much easier for whatever QB you do decide to go with.

I love that front 7 you just mentioned by the way as long as Oliver switches over to a 3-4 ok (1 gap so good chance), that is tempting to me, it really is.

And I think Osweiler could bust pretty easily as well. I just think his ceiling could be a lot higher too, definitely higher than a lot of other options out there. Denver offering that deal in that cap situation is the best scouting report on the upside to Osweiler I think we have. And I think Elway knows more than me.


I think you keep mediocrity by constantly getting Hoyer, Yates, Fitz, Keenum, Weeden, etc who you know have very little chance of being anything consistent or better and not at least trying to get a guy who can be more. Bolstering the O-line to be the best in the league made life a lot easier for Romo's backups or Cleveland's QB's recently, but without the good QB, what did that leave them with?

I don't think it is panic to have a LOT more cap flexibility than Denver and just offer a little bit more. Hou didn't have Von, Ware, Sanders, Trevathan, or Jackson to re-sign during the 2 years of that deal, or an O-line like Denver's to worry about. That's a night and day situation. Houston can offer 1.5 mil a year more than Denver and improve their roster. Denver has to further weaken their roster for what they offered.


Instead even with the pickup of Brock Hou addressed needs. QB, O-line as you mention (Jeff Allen/Bergstrom), and RB (Lamar Miller). They were able to use their 1st round pick on a top WR position of need to pair with Hopkins rather than a 2nd tier QB position and go for Lynch.

Hou was 25th in yards per drive, 28th in scoring rate, 29th in punts per drive, 22nd in turnover rate offensively. You want to help the D, get the offense going now while you have a chance. Stop letting your inconsistent QB play give the defense the 3rd worst average field position in the league when you send them out there with dead drives and turnovers. Of the QB's you can do that with, Osweiler by far is the one I think that has the best chance from the start.

 

[mick7-1961]

Hmmmm, but no guaranteed posted yet

87 million

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Going to be fascinating to see what Derek Carr gets. He has no 5th year option looming so he might get a new contract by the end of next year.

 

[cdumler7]

I love that front 7 you just mentioned by the way as long as Oliver switches over to a 3-4 ok (1 gap so good chance), that is tempting to me, it really is.

And I think Osweiler could bust pretty easily as well. I just think his ceiling could be a lot higher too, definitely higher than a lot of other options out there. Denver offering that deal in that cap situation is the best scouting report on the upside to Osweiler I think we have. And I think Elway knows more than me.


I think you keep mediocrity by constantly getting Hoyer, Yates, Fitz, Keenum, Weeden, etc who you know have very little chance of being anything consistent or better and not at least trying to get a guy who can be more. Bolstering the O-line to be the best in the league made life a lot easier for Romo's backups or Cleveland's QB's recently, but without the good QB, what did that leave them with?

I don't think it is panic to have a LOT more cap flexibility than Denver and just offer a little bit more. Hou didn't have Von, Ware, Sanders, Trevathan, or Jackson to re-sign during the 2 years of that deal, or an O-line like Denver's to worry about. That's a night and day situation. Houston can offer 1.5 mil a year more than Denver and improve their roster. Denver has to further weaken their roster for what they offered.


Instead even with the pickup of Brock Hou addressed needs. QB, O-line as you mention (Jeff Allen/Bergstrom), and RB (Lamar Miller). They were able to use their 1st round pick on a top WR position of need to pair with Hopkins rather than a 2nd tier QB position and go for Lynch.

Hou was 25th in yards per drive, 28th in scoring rate, 29th in punts per drive, 22nd in turnover rate offensively. You want to help the D, get the offense going now while you have a chance. Stop letting your inconsistent QB play give the defense the 3rd worst average field position in the league when you send them out there with dead drives and turnovers. Of the QB's you can do that with, Osweiler by far is the one I think that has the best chance from the start.

See I have studied all the news on Brock's contract offers and man we arrive at 2 very different conclusions. Elway showed very early his thoughts on Osweiler in offering something like 2-years/$20 million was close to what the first offer was. So pretty much a prove it deal that he is more than just a back up in this league. Yes he took his offer up but the Broncos knew very early in the process that they were not going to keep Osweiler. He stopped talking to teammates and the FO/Coaching department. They knew the offer that Houston was offering and that Brock wanted out of town. Sometimes I deals are thrown out just to look good but not actually expecting the player to sign. Heck they just did that with Von Miller trying to show they were offering him the biggest contract in defensive history yet the guaranteed money wasn't close to what it needed to be. They knew he wouldn't sign that deal.

I also don't think they did much to show they really wanted Osweiler here. They benched him even though he wasn't really much of the problem other than they hated his attitude and felt like he was losing the huddle. Then continuing to bench him for a veteran who was having a terrible season. Then instead of negotiating with him early they kept waiting and were showing much more respect to Manning than Osweiler throughout the entire off season leading up to FA. So the early contract offers and how they were acting towards him to me shows a lot more than the final offer knowing that Houston has already offered more than what you are offering at the end and that he wants out of town.

 

[cdumler7]

Also I like some of the other moves Houston made such as the Lamar Miller deal and so on. I think they stand a chance to be good but to me I would rather run with a lower tier QB, sign a guy like Olivier Vernon to add to an already dynamic defense and do the moves they did

 

[HaroldSeattle]

See I have studied all the news on Brock's contract offers and man we arrive at 2 very different conclusions. Elway showed very early his thoughts on Osweiler in offering something like 2-years/$20 million was close to what the first offer was. So pretty much a prove it deal that he is more than just a back up in this league. Yes he took his offer up but the Broncos knew very early in the process that they were not going to keep Osweiler. He stopped talking to teammates and the FO/Coaching department. They knew the offer that Houston was offering and that Brock wanted out of town. Sometimes I deals are thrown out just to look good but not actually expecting the player to sign. Heck they just did that with Von Miller trying to show they were offering him the biggest contract in defensive history yet the guaranteed money wasn't close to what it needed to be. They knew he wouldn't sign that deal.

I also don't think they did much to show they really wanted Osweiler here. They benched him even though he wasn't really much of the problem other than they hated his attitude and felt like he was losing the huddle. Then continuing to bench him for a veteran who was having a terrible season. Then instead of negotiating with him early they kept waiting and were showing much more respect to Manning than Osweiler throughout the entire off season leading up to FA. So the early contract offers and how they were acting towards him to me shows a lot more than the final offer knowing that Houston has already offered more than what you are offering at the end and that he wants out of town.

Doubt they had a clue about what Houston would offer, but I think Elway had major doubts about Oz all along, should of keep drafting QBs, like the Packers did when they had Farve, but that's water under the bridge. Unless Paxton impresses, next year the Broncos may start unloading contracts and then try to find their next franchise QB.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Hmm I'm kind of torn on this.

On one hand Luck probably is the highest ceiling of any of the young QBs. Cam/Russell are right up there, but the FOs are MUCH smarter for the Panthers/Seahawks than the Colts. The fact the Colts have failed to surround Luck with much defensively or on the offensive line/running front is pretty laughable, all while playing in a fairly cupcake division for a # of Luck's years.

Yes I know the whole, "BUT CAP WILL RISE!!! MAKING THIS A STEAL BLAH BLAH BLAH" arguments will come, but this will undoubtedly cripple what the Colts are able to spend in the future years. Luck is also a turnover machine and has yet to prove anything in the playoffs sporting a 71.8 QB rating in 3 games played, YIKES! Yes Wilson/Newton have defenses and run support but that's not their fault... that's the sign of a good FO putting their QB in a position to succeed.

Colts would never let Luck walk and neither would any other franchise, but the inept ownership of Indianapolis coupled with this ridiculous contract for a QB who has already been banged up and failed to do anything significant thus far in his career is somewhat alarming.

Luck is POTENTIALLY better than Flacco but the FO in Indy is not better than Baltimore and we've already seen some ramifications of Flacco's overpaid contract.

At this point, it's grossly overpaying for a QB with a proven ceiling for ONE season of 96.7 rating (rest failed to even reach 90), barely over 60% completion in all his seasons (career is in the high 50s) and mediocre scrambling ability (still can't believe some ESPN Luck nut hugger said he was a better scrambler than Wilson/Newton... give me an f'ing break). You're overpaying for 'potential' (with some proven play granted) on a 'meh' team which is IMO a mediocre move... hence a mediocre grade.

C+ Grade (grade as always is a combination of the PLAYER and the team/FO signing him...)

 

[redseat]

Good luck trying to find talent around him with that price tag

 

[Rockinkuwait]

See I have studied all the news on Brock's contract offers and man we arrive at 2 very different conclusions. Elway showed very early his thoughts on Osweiler in offering something like 2-years/$20 million was close to what the first offer was. So pretty much a prove it deal that he is more than just a back up in this league. Yes he took his offer up but the Broncos knew very early in the process that they were not going to keep Osweiler. He stopped talking to teammates and the FO/Coaching department. They knew the offer that Houston was offering and that Brock wanted out of town. Sometimes I deals are thrown out just to look good but not actually expecting the player to sign. Heck they just did that with Von Miller trying to show they were offering him the biggest contract in defensive history yet the guaranteed money wasn't close to what it needed to be. They knew he wouldn't sign that deal.

I also don't think they did much to show they really wanted Osweiler here. They benched him even though he wasn't really much of the problem other than they hated his attitude and felt like he was losing the huddle. Then continuing to bench him for a veteran who was having a terrible season. Then instead of negotiating with him early they kept waiting and were showing much more respect to Manning than Osweiler throughout the entire off season leading up to FA. So the early contract offers and how they were acting towards him to me shows a lot more than the final offer knowing that Houston has already offered more than what you are offering at the end and that he wants out of town.

I don't know how you arrive at a "very different conclusion"... The parts of how Osweiler went silent and hoped to get Denver to budgecame in the same exact interview from his agent about the 16+ mil a year, and from the exact same reporters who gave the reports of 16+ mil a year. Mike Kliss who has an excellent relationship with their FO and hasn't faked anything reported that. Troy Renck reported the same exact figure. Schefter reported it. I hear interviews with Kubiak and Elway all off-season and not once would they deny that number. Just the "we don't want players who don't want to be hear".


I don't know how you can listen to half the story (the Osweiler not returning calls) and then ignore the other half in the same story as fake.

I don't see how you can say you "studied the offers" and ignore what is reliable reporting from proven media members all getting the same reports and just go off the very first offer.



I'm just saying everything from multiple sources says 16-16.5 mil a year, 2 years guaranteed. And these are people I can't find being wrong when they report these things. They report then a few days later it's confirmed. But this is the one time where everyone was wrong (yet happen to be right on everything else that was going on behind the scenes)??? Not buying that.

You offer 16+ mil a year to a player, you showed plenty that you want him there. Especially when you were in that cap situation. That's the proof right there.

 

[cdumler7]

Doubt they had a clue about what Houston would offer, but I think Elway had major doubts about Oz all along, should of keep drafting QBs, like the Packers did when they had Farve, but that's water under the bridge. Unless Paxton impresses, next year the Broncos may start unloading contracts and then try to find their next franchise QB.

Actually they would have known exactly what they offered. The Broncos didn't make their last push until the legal tampering period so that means he could already be talking to Houston and have them present an offer. Plus in the NFL agents and players already start negotiating at the Combine. It is the worst kept secret in football that they go crazy negotiating when they are not allowed to since all FO and Agents are at the event.

 

[cdumler7]

I don't know how you arrive at a "very different conclusion"... The parts of how Osweiler went silent and hoped to get Denver to budgecame in the same exact interview from his agent about the 16+ mil a year, and from the exact same reporters who gave the reports of 16+ mil a year. Mike Kliss who has an excellent relationship with their FO and hasn't faked anything reported that. Troy Renck reported the same exact figure. Schefter reported it. I hear interviews with Kubiak and Elway all off-season and not once would they deny that number. Just the "we don't want players who don't want to be hear".


I don't know how you can listen to half the story (the Osweiler not returning calls) and then ignore the other half in the same story as fake.

I don't see how you can say you "studied the offers" and ignore what is reliable reporting from proven media members all getting the same reports and just go off the very first offer.



I'm just saying everything from multiple sources says 16-16.5 mil a year, 2 years guaranteed. And these are people I can't find being wrong when they report these things. They report then a few days later it's confirmed. But this is the one time where everyone was wrong (yet happen to be right on everything else that was going on behind the scenes)??? Not buying that.

You offer 16+ mil a year to a player, you showed plenty that you want him there. Especially when you were in that cap situation. That's the proof right there.

Again that offer came after the $18 million offer from the Texans not before. They had held steady at $12 million up to that point which is a very low end starter value with only 2-years on the offer showing they wanted him to prove more before giving him the big offer. With the $16 million offer coming after the Texans and knowing that Brock wanted to go elsewhere why even make the offer if you know he is gone unless it is just to appease the fans that you tried to keep the guy? I mean he and his agent as we later found out had been planning since December that Osweiler would go elsewhere. You really think the Broncos didn't know this? I have not denied once that I think the Broncos liked Osweiler and wouldn't minded having kept him but the problem was they wanted a more cap friendly prove it deal with the idea that he would get his big offer later down the road.

 

[SteelersPride]

Going to be fascinating to see what Derek Carr gets. He has no 5th year option looming so he might get a new contract by the end of next year.

yeah, but hes not luck

 

[Dude]

Luck is a very good QB, many underestimate his capabilities because the Colts are a poorly run organization.

 

[cdumler7]

yeah, but hes not luck

Really in today's NFL though does that matter? I mean twice now Flacco has gotten the highest paid QB contract in the NFL yet I doubt anybody would think of him being top-8 in the league right now.