Alex Smith's contract

[EKmane]

You and me man, tonight. 8 PM. Top of Mt. Tamalpais. If I'm a couple hours late, just sit tight, I'll get there eventually. Finally settle this shit.

LOLOLOLOL. I think this is a first.

You're such a little scary BITCH that you have to still look for attention in these threads. I sent you the inbox message, as well as told you earlier in the thread to leave our personal stuff out of the threads, people don't want to hear about, nor do they want to see how much of a BITCH you really are. Since you need the attention, let me give it to you.

If anyone is really interested in how this started, just go back to the first page (I think) (maybe the 2nd), as well as in the Alex Smith future thread. You will see this SQUARE talking real tough about "he's getting pissed", "his temper is flaring", so and so. I tried to be cool and not flash on him, he took it for weakness and still got smart. He was basically trying to talk tough (like a bully). I called his bluff, now he's a funny guy. The usual, call these cyber bullies bluff and the BITCH comes to surface. It's too bad though, somebody might have believed the tough talk, it's just you ran into somebody that's been through some real things.

I'll ask you again SPACEDOODOOPISTOL,

Pretty please, with sugar on top, leave our personal stuff out of the threads people use to talk 49ers. If you want to see me about something, let me know in the inbox (like I did to you). Since you like attention so much I will even bring a camera to post the video, and I'll give you ALL THE ATTENTION you want in your own thread called "Bitch Ass Spacedoodoopistol Getting Slapped", you little BITCH. Since you said I'm a massive poser, prove it. Since you want eveyrone to read and laugh like I'm some joke, TEST ME. Bring your friends or whatever, I PROMISE it'll be some shit.

P.S. You're entering troll territory with your posts as well. It's pretty getting lame. I've been trying to not talk anymore, I'm at a put up or shut up point with you. Your love for Alex Smith makes it hard to to talk football with a person like yourself, and to tell you the truth, I'm done.

 

[deep9er]

Mine is Smith (or an equivalent QB) because that position is so much more important than any other, then Rogers, then Goldson and what happens to Brooks doesn't matter to me. He's easily replaced.

yep, the QB impacts EACH game more than any other one player. this doesn't automatically make you sign him, but certainly the first guy you talk to.

we all like Rogers, Brooks, and Goldson, but we also know players come and go. it takes two sides to agree and most times, FA's seek the biggest money. not blaming them for it, but just reminding us its not the 49ers sole decision to make.

whats to say Rogers doesn't demand an "Asomougha" deal?

 

[imac_21]

Getting 10M per year does not mean a cap number of 10M each year. If Smith were to sign a 40M/4 year contract, that doesn't mean his cap hit is 10M each year. Ditto for Rogers, Goldson and Brooks.

 

[MHSL82]

What I expect is rather than asking for a lot of money, he will ask for a longer term. But with the ability to be cut, taking little money is risky, so a higher percentage of the lesser money would be quaranteed.

That would accomplish a few things: it would get him a longer contract that makes it likely he gets paid and remains on the team, it shows some commitment to Alex, and it is low enough that if it becomes clear that SF is not right, that Alex would be tradeable. The team would then be able to have Alex as a good enough QB for a good price or make the cost of Alex low if he fails. It also makes him tradeable.

I do recognize that if Alex is good enough to be tradeable we might just keep him. Him wanting to leave would probably mean he failed and therefore teams would wait for him to be cut or not care at all. However, they have in the past traded someone who was servicable or better (Montana/Smith) in favor of someone else (Young/Kaep).

 

[MHSL82]

This question might not have much weight, but I was wondering, with Peyton out there, wouldn't it make sense for Alex's agent to ask for enough money that they couldn't commit Alex to a contract and then get Manning, too? I find unlikely that they could sign both, but if Alex took a home team discount, plus structured the contract to have a low cap hit this year in interest of signing Goldson and Rogers, wouldn't it look dumb if they then had enough for a flexible contract with Manning (and then of course not get Rodgers and/or Goldson)?

I don't see Alex as a person to demand a trade and even then, the NFL doesn't allow sign and trades, there would be a moratorium period for him to demand it either way. But it can't be good. Obviously, the agent can't price Alex out of the question either or make a Manning deal look attractive contractually, but there is a ceiling and floor that is affected by the prospect of Manning. Unless, of course, the Niners definitively don't want Manning. If I were Alex, I'd wait for Manning to be gone or go for enough that I knew it was going to be me vs. Kaep and regular vet.

 

[deep9er]

What I expect is rather than asking for a lot of money, he will ask for a longer term. But with the ability to be cut, taking little money is risky, so a higher percentage of the lesser money would be quaranteed.

That would accomplish a few things: it would get him a longer contract that makes it likely he gets paid and remains on the team, it shows some commitment to Alex, and it is low enough that if it becomes clear that SF is not right, that Alex would be tradeable. The team would then be able to have Alex as a good enough QB for a good price or make the cost of Alex low if he fails. It also makes him tradeable.

I do recognize that if Alex is good enough to be tradeable we might just keep him. Him wanting to leave would probably mean he failed and therefore teams would wait for him to be cut or not care at all. However, they have in the past traded someone who was servicable or better (Montana/Smith) in favor of someone else (Young/Kaep).

Alex is a free aent and able to sign with any team, we don't have rights to trade him. or, are you saying sign him first and then pursue Manning? then if Manning signs, trade Alex?

 

[Flyingiguana]

What I expect is rather than asking for a lot of money, he will ask for a longer term. But with the ability to be cut, taking little money is risky, so a higher percentage of the lesser money would be quaranteed.

That would accomplish a few things: it would get him a longer contract that makes it likely he gets paid and remains on the team, it shows some commitment to Alex, and it is low enough that if it becomes clear that SF is not right, that Alex would be tradeable. The team would then be able to have Alex as a good enough QB for a good price or make the cost of Alex low if he fails. It also makes him tradeable.

I do recognize that if Alex is good enough to be tradeable we might just keep him. Him wanting to leave would probably mean he failed and therefore teams would wait for him to be cut or not care at all. However, they have in the past traded someone who was servicable or better (Montana/Smith) in favor of someone else (Young/Kaep).

it would be best if he took a 7 year deal that had a big roster bonus in say 2-3 years. if he continues to improve he'll want a long-term deal at that point while he's still in his prime.

 

[MHSL82]

Alex is a free aent and able to sign with any team, we don't have rights to trade him. or, are you saying sign him first and then pursue Manning? then if Manning signs, trade Alex?

No, sorry I was confusing in my post. The NFL doesn't allow sign and trades like the NBA does. What I meant in the second post was that it would suck for Alex to sign for little money thinking that he was helping the team get a WR and bring back the defense, only to find that the team used the saved amount to bring in Peyton to replace him. You couldn't be traded for awhile, know that they were stringing you along, and now are stuck for a good period of time. Alex would benefit from waiting to see if Manning goes elsewhere in which he could sign here or see if they bring in Manning, in which he could choose a team to try and compete. Manning would only come here if he were healthy and Alex isn't Leinart where he'd pass up the chance to compete for a starting job for the likelihood of sitting behind an established starter. He would not find a better fit than here, but a chance at starting elsewhere may be more important to him than backing up if Kaep is the heir aparent.

In the first post, I meant it would be good to sign for a long term so he'd feel committed to, but for little money so he would get the WR and keep the defense. But then have a high percentage of that amount be quaranteed so he would not be sacrificing money early and being cut later for nothing. It would help the team because it would show confidence and continuity, but still protect the team both by being a lower price that is absorbable or cuttable if he doesn't pan out. It would also be low enough that teams may trade for him in the future (not this year) if Kaep pans out and Alex is servicable or better. The last year would be team option where obviously they could cut him the previous years but owe the guaranteed amount, but in the option year, the team could keep or drop him.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

At least going into the offseason the Niners have a fair amount of wiggle room. I thought Alex might be inclined to take a hometown discount because he's already been PAID beaucoup cash from the first 4 years of his 49.5 mil (24 mil guaranteed) rookie contract, but the deal was more backloaded than I thought, with Alex still having 24.6 mil left on his contract for the 2009 & 2010 seasons before he agreed to restructuring the deal.

Alex seems like a very principled individual, so I can imagine him pushing for a deal that would net around the 9.5 mil/per that he would have earned if he played out the end of his rookie deal - or perhaps a deal with a lower base, but with substantial bonus modifiers for starts or stats that can push it substantially higher.

But no matter what, expect Alex to remember how easily an NFL QB can fall out of favor with fans or team management as he and his agent field offers.

 

[deep9er]

At least going into the offseason the Niners have a fair amount of wiggle room. I thought Alex might be inclined to take a hometown discount because he's already been PAID beaucoup cash from the first 4 years of his 49.5 mil (24 mil guaranteed) rookie contract, but the deal was more backloaded than I thought, with Alex still having 24.6 mil left on his contract for the 2009 & 2010 seasons before he agreed to restructuring the deal.

Alex seems like a very principled individual, so I can imagine him pushing for a deal that would net around the 9.5 mil/per that he would have earned if he played out the end of his rookie deal - or perhaps a deal with a lower base, but with substantial bonus modifiers for starts or stats that can push it substantially higher.

But no matter what, expect Alex to remember how easily an NFL QB can fall out of favor with fans or team management as he and his agent field offers.

makes sense to me.

at this point, i'd think Alex is more concerned with improving himself, continue winning, and shoot for a SB win. money is important because its an indication of how much you're wanted, but don't see him squeezing for every dollar.

 

[imac_21]

makes sense to me.

at this point, i'd think Alex is more concerned with improving himself, continue winning, and shoot for a SB win. money is important because its an indication of how much you're wanted, but don't see him squeezing for every dollar.

So using the logic that Smith should be willing to take a little less because of how much we've already invested in him when he underperformed, does that mean when Navorro Bowman is a FA he should expect to be paid not only for projected future performance but also for how well he played this year when he was underpaid?

If Bowman sat down to negotiate a contract and said "I understand that over a 5 year contract I am worth 30M as an ILB to this team, however, because I played so well in 2011 and I was on my rookie contract, I feel like I deserve an extra 6M for past performance as well."

How would you react?

 

[DoobieKeebler]

So using the logic that Smith should be willing to take a little less because of how much we've already invested in him when he underperformed, does that mean when Navorro Bowman is a FA he should expect to be paid not only for projected future performance but also for how well he played this year when he was underpaid?

If Bowman sat down to negotiate a contract and said "I understand that over a 5 year contract I am worth 30M as an ILB to this team, however, because I played so well in 2011 and I was on my rookie contract, I feel like I deserve an extra 6M for past performance as well."

How would you react?

Victor Cruz is doing exactly that as we speak.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Also remember that Steve Young refused to cash his checks when he was riding the bench because he felt he didn't deserve the cash.

 

[MHSL82]

Also remember that Steve Young refused to cash his checks when he was riding the bench because he felt he didn't deserve the cash.

I'm not a liberal (or conservative for that matter), but I wonder how much money that was in which he could have donated to a charity. I also wonder if he tithed on that amount even though he didn't cash it (don't really care but it jumped into my mind).

 

[deep9er]

So using the logic that Smith should be willing to take a little less because of how much we've already invested in him when he underperformed, does that mean when Navorro Bowman is a FA he should expect to be paid not only for projected future performance but also for how well he played this year when he was underpaid?

If Bowman sat down to negotiate a contract and said "I understand that over a 5 year contract I am worth 30M as an ILB to this team, however, because I played so well in 2011 and I was on my rookie contract, I feel like I deserve an extra 6M for past performance as well."

How would you react?

no, not the same logic. they have much different career 'events' to date.

 

[imac_21]

Victor Cruz is doing exactly that as we speak.

Is he asking for a raise based on what he expects to do in the future, or is he asking for retropay for last season as well as pay for what he will do in the future? If the Giants and Cruz agree on a contract for the next 4 years, will Cruz and his agent then ask for more money for last year as well?

 

[imac_21]

no, not the same logic. they have much different career 'events' to date.

It is the same logic. Smith should be willing to take a different contract based on what he's done in the past. Because he was overpaid in the past, he should be willing to be underpaid now.

Well, if Bowman (or Cruz) is underpaid now, should they be overpaid in the future?

Maybe we shouldn't worry about overpaying Carlos Rogers in 4 years because he was underpaid in 2011 for his performance.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Is he asking for a raise based on what he expects to do in the future, or is he asking for retropay for last season as well as pay for what he will do in the future? If the Giants and Cruz agree on a contract for the next 4 years, will Cruz and his agent then ask for more money for last year as well?

Ask Cruz or his agent; Cruz said he deserves something extra for how he played.

 

[imac_21]

Ask Cruz or his agent; Cruz said he deserves something extra for how he played.

So should he get it? Should he be paid for projected future performance as well as past performance? Or should he be paid for what he will do in the future?

With respect to Alex taking less because of his fat contract as a rookie, should he ask for more because he outperformed his contract last season?

 

[DoobieKeebler]

It is the same logic.

It really isn't even close. Smith is not playing on a mid round rookie contract. Smith has already made enough money to the point that he could retire, never work another day in his life, and still have money left over to pay for his children's college education. We don't know him, but Smith's MO at this stage in his career looks to be team achievement - i.e. playoffs & Super Bowl - and personal redemption. Smith took the road less traveled in staying in SF to prove a point that given a proper chance he can lead the Niners to victory, despite what some fans & a couple shitty head coaches thought.

Alex having a chip on his shoulder & having made all the money he ever needs, leads me to believe money is not his number one prerogative heading into negotiations. I offer that if Alex isn't too worried about the money, and the difference will be used to go after an FA or resign an important player, he'd probably take a hometown discount.