AL Central Discussion

[mr.hockey4242]

I heard he was great when healthy. Let this Royce kid play more than some games, how about one season...that's a good start. I've seen a ton of guys look great for a short period of time and I mean multiple seasons, not 60 games.

Regardless, he was drafted 1st overall. He should have very high expectations.

The issue is, this isnt 1 linear period. Like Gimenez for example. Bigger sample, but only showed an ability to hit for 1 stretch.

Royce has literally hit every single time hes been in the big leagues. You can claim small sample size but its just ignorance. He rakes, he gets hurt, he comes back and he rakes more than he did before the previous injury

1st playoff AB. 1st AB of the season. 1st game back from injury. Etc..

You can claim he may not ever stay healthy(fair reservation) but any doubt about the legitimacy of his talent and production is a combination of stupid and dont watch baseball

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Well, at least the Yanks are nice and not making the Twins feel lonely in receiving nightly ass fuckings from them.

Royals might be getting pounded worse this week

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Correa with a OPS+ of 134 now.

With elite D and his a healthy foot. This is the guy we paid for.

Has to keep it up tho.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The issue is, this isnt 1 linear period. Like Gimenez for example. Bigger sample, but only showed an ability to hit for 1 stretch.

Royce has literally hit every single time hes been in the big leagues. You can claim small sample size but its just ignorance. He rakes, he gets hurt, he comes back and he rakes more than he did before the previous injury

1st playoff AB. 1st AB of the season. 1st game back from injury. Etc..

You can claim he may not ever stay healthy(fair reservation) but any doubt about the legitimacy of his talent and production is a combination of stupid and dont watch baseball

Lewis does have the pedigree and the skill set but I think what he is saying - and I apologize if I am not stating it correctly @Shanemansj13 - is that less than 300 at bats is not a whole lot to go on.

I would love for David Fry to be a .285/400 hitter--- but i kinda doubt it. Fry also has some pretty solid numbers at levels. The league usually adjusts. Like I said- I think Lewis has a good chance to stick close to where he is at due to pedigree and skill set- - but I would be doubtful of any player sticking to a .320 average through less than 300 at bats.

Kwan has about 1400 at bats and only now am I really getting a firm idea of what he is/should be- and he hit at every level also.

I think ESPN's WAR stat is a little inflated, but 12.6 WAR through about 2 1/3 seasons is pretty slick for Kwan.

Gimenez at 16 WAR at age 25 is pretty nice too. Say what you want to about Gimenez- but in a "down year" last year he had 15 homers and 30 steals and won the Platinum Glove. He is a very valuable player

 

[WiggyRuss]

Kwan is 14th in the majors (all players- pitching or hitting)--- at 2.7 WAR thus far this year.

I think he has to be an All Star at this point unless he just crashes over the next month.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Lewis does have the pedigree and the skill set but I think what he is saying - and I apologize if I am not stating it correctly @Shanemansj13 - is that less than 300 at bats is not a whole lot to go on.

I would love for David Fry to be a .285/400 hitter--- but i kinda doubt it. Fry also has some pretty solid numbers at levels. The league usually adjusts. Like I said- I think Lewis has a good chance to stick close to where he is at due to pedigree and skill set- - but I would be doubtful of any player sticking to a .320 average through less than 300 at bats.

Kwan has about 1400 at bats and only now am I really getting a firm idea of what he is/should be- and he hit at every level also.

I think ESPN's WAR stat is a little inflated, but 12.6 WAR through about 2 1/3 seasons is pretty slick for Kwan.

Gimenez at 16 WAR at age 25 is pretty nice too. Say what you want to about Gimenez- but in a "down year" last year he had 15 homers and 30 steals and won the Platinum Glove. He is a very valuable player

Again,

You're using examples that are not relevant and its exactly what I just said to shane.

You mentioned Lewis having the pedigree, he was 1-1 for a reason. But the biggest thing is as I mentioned call it small sample size all you want, but its not ONE SAMPLE SIZE.

Pitchers can adjust? They havent for 3 years now. Every single time hes up here he gets better and better. If anything theres actually nothing to support he wont be great. Because thats all hes been every stint.

This argument would make a lot more sense if he was doing this strictly for 3 consecutive months across 1 season. But that isnt what hes doing.

Now is he gonna hit so well that going 2/4 with 2 singles(like yesterday) actually weakens his numbers? Of course not. His 34 AB stats are obviously a small sample size and not sustainable.

But Lewis is absolutely tracking along with Witt to be a .300ish with a slug well about .500 type of guy

Guys like David Fry, Andres Gimenez, Ryan Jeffers and Edouard Julien. Those are guys that have to sustain things to prove their talent.

Lewis has always been an elite talent and is showing it. Eventually he will hit a slump, everyone does. But hes also really fucking good. No one questioned Witt or Gunnar Henderson the moment they came up and hit. Lewis is that type of player.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Correa showed a little pop last night too.

Hes red fucking hot.

142 OPS+ now. Has to prove he can sustain the hitting a bit and Id like to see more of a 20+ homer pace. But hes one guy in this lineup actually hitting.

Also, baby steps but hell of a game from Buxton. 3 singles and a walk. A 2 strike, 2 run single even. Thats shit he doesnt do. Just good ABs not trying to do too much.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Again,

You're using examples that are not relevant and its exactly what I just said to shane.

You mentioned Lewis having the pedigree, he was 1-1 for a reason. But the biggest thing is as I mentioned call it small sample size all you want, but its not ONE SAMPLE SIZE.

Pitchers can adjust? They havent for 3 years now. Every single time hes up here he gets better and better. If anything theres actually nothing to support he wont be great. Because thats all hes been every stint.

This argument would make a lot more sense if he was doing this strictly for 3 consecutive months across 1 season. But that isnt what hes doing.

Now is he gonna hit so well that going 2/4 with 2 singles(like yesterday) actually weakens his numbers? Of course not. His 34 AB stats are obviously a small sample size and not sustainable.

But Lewis is absolutely tracking along with Witt to be a .300ish with a slug well about .500 type of guy

Guys like David Fry, Andres Gimenez, Ryan Jeffers and Edouard Julien. Those are guys that have to sustain things to prove their talent.

Lewis has always been an elite talent and is showing it. Eventually he will hit a slump, everyone does. But hes also really fucking good. No one questioned Witt or Gunnar Henderson the moment they came up and hit. Lewis is that type of player.

I am just hesitant to put Lewis in the same league as Gunnar and Bobby Witt while having under 300 at bats. Comparing him to MVP candidates

Henderson is now at about 1,000 at bats and carries a .261/.341/.853 slash line. Witt is at 1514 at bats with a .277/.321/.802 slash line

Lewis is at 291 at bats with a .316/.369/.588 slash line. It is obvious some regression is coming.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Again,

You're using examples that are not relevant and its exactly what I just said to shane.

You mentioned Lewis having the pedigree, he was 1-1 for a reason. But the biggest thing is as I mentioned call it small sample size all you want, but its not ONE SAMPLE SIZE.

Pitchers can adjust? They havent for 3 years now. Every single time hes up here he gets better and better. If anything theres actually nothing to support he wont be great. Because thats all hes been every stint.

This argument would make a lot more sense if he was doing this strictly for 3 consecutive months across 1 season. But that isnt what hes doing.

Now is he gonna hit so well that going 2/4 with 2 singles(like yesterday) actually weakens his numbers? Of course not. His 34 AB stats are obviously a small sample size and not sustainable.

But Lewis is absolutely tracking along with Witt to be a .300ish with a slug well about .500 type of guy

Guys like David Fry, Andres Gimenez, Ryan Jeffers and Edouard Julien. Those are guys that have to sustain things to prove their talent.

Lewis has always been an elite talent and is showing it. Eventually he will hit a slump, everyone does. But hes also really fucking good. No one questioned Witt or Gunnar Henderson the moment they came up and hit. Lewis is that type of player.

3 years? The dude has been injured for most of his short career. It is less about the pitchers adjusting and more about him falling into normalcy bc the sample size is too small. He can still be a damn good player but you are acting like he will be a superstar. Big difference. All I am saying is let the guy be healthy for one full season before we talk bc playing this great for 20-30 games is nice but doing it for 130-140 games is top of the class.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I am just hesitant to put Lewis in the same league as Gunnar and Bobby Witt while having under 300 at bats. Comparing him to MVP candidates

Henderson is now at about 1,000 at bats and carries a .261/.341/.853 slash line. Witt is at 1514 at bats with a .277/.321/.802 slash line

Lewis is at 291 at bats with a .316/.369/.588 slash line. It is obvious some regression is coming.

Well

1. you jacked up those slash lines

2. I said Witt and Henderson immediately were given the benefit of the doubt(or lack their off). Im not saying currently

Then again, honestly so is Lewis. Its really guardian fans, and I understand the fear trying to poke holes instead of just watching.. People who watch him day in and day out around baseball talk about the very clear talent.

Shit, MLB network actually even imo probably gives him too much credit. Rather than saying hes a top 2 central player going forward. They have him top 10 in all of baseball right now.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I am just hesitant to put Lewis in the same league as Gunnar and Bobby Witt while having under 300 at bats. Comparing him to MVP candidates

Henderson is now at about 1,000 at bats and carries a .261/.341/.853 slash line. Witt is at 1514 at bats with a .277/.321/.802 slash line

Lewis is at 291 at bats with a .316/.369/.588 slash line. It is obvious some regression is coming.

No chance in hell we put him in that discussion. He has the talent but he can’t stay healthy, first off. Those guys are already a couple years younger and already at the top of the league with a better track record than Lewis. Like I said, wait and see. A #1 pick has a ton of expectations. The talent is there, can he did it for a full season. All I am saying is one full season, that is step #1

 

[mr.hockey4242]

3 years? The dude has been injured for most of his short career. It is less about the pitchers adjusting and more about him falling into normalcy bc the sample size is too small. He can still be a damn good player but you are acting like he will be a superstar. Big difference. All I am saying is let the guy be healthy for one full season before we talk bc playing this great for 20-30 games is nice but doing it for 130-140 games is top of the class.

And hes hit his entire career around those injuries. You say "normalcy" but the fact is hes hitting elite without normalcy. You get how that works? Guy comes off the IL for 3 weeks and immediately hits a home run in the playoffs.

Like it works both ways. The only difference is I have numbers to support him being great. You just have "well, he might not be eventually"

Theres stupidity, and then theres this.

And no, I never said superstar(though theres a case) I said hes the clear cut future of this division with Witt. There is no one fucking close to those two aside from a 31 year old Ramirez(hence future). On the hitting side that is.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No chance in hell we put him in that discussion. He has the talent but he can’t stay healthy, first off. Those guys are already a couple years younger and already at the top of the league with a better track record than Lewis. Like I said, wait and see. A #1 pick has a ton of expectations. The talent is there, can he did it for a full season. All I am saying is one full season, that is step #1

It is wild that Lewis is already 25 and is under 300 career major league at bats- while Henderson and Witt are at about 1,000 and 1,500 at bats and are quite a bit younger.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Well

1. you jacked up those slash lines

2. I said Witt and Henderson immediately were given the benefit of the doubt(or lack their off). Im not saying currently

Then again, honestly so is Lewis. Its really guardian fans, and I understand the fear trying to poke holes instead of just watching.. People who watch him day in and day out around baseball talk about the very clear talent.

Shit, MLB network actually even imo probably gives him too much credit. Rather than saying hes a top 2 central player going forward. They have him top 10 in all of baseball right now.

Henderson for his career is 936 at bats--- .261 avg., .341 obp., .512 slg., .853 ops

Witt at 1514 at bats, .277 avg., .321 obp., .482 slg., .802 ops

people havent been able to watch him "day in and day out" dude.....

I said above -he has the pedigree and talent- but what your suggesting is maintaining what he has done in limited at bats is far and above what Henderson and Witt have done in their careers.

Saying Lewis is top 10 in baseball right now is insanity. Total abject insanity.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Henderson for his career is 936 at bats--- .261 avg., .341 obp., .512 slg., .853 ops

Witt at 1514 at bats, .277 avg., .321 obp., .482 slg., .802 ops

people havent been able to watch him "day in and day out" dude.....

I said above -he has the pedigree and talent- but what your suggesting is maintaining what he has done in limited at bats is far and above what Henderson and Witt have done in their careers.

Saying Lewis is top 10 in baseball right now is insanity. Total abject insanity.

You really can't read, which does continue to be the issue with you.

Why do you keep referencing Witt and Hendersons careers? This is now the THIRD time I am going to tell you, they were labeled as great players IMMEDIATELY.

Jesus Christ dude, at some point you have got to fucking learn how to read and comprehend. It isn't fucking hard.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You really can't read, which does continue to be the issue with you.

Why do you keep referencing Witt and Hendersons careers? This is now the THIRD time I am going to tell you, they were labeled as great players IMMEDIATELY.

Jesus Christ dude, at some point you have got to fucking learn how to read and comprehend. It isn't fucking hard.

I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about because you are not making any sense.

also- absolutely no one was calling Henderson or Witt a top 10 player after 300 at bats. Esp. Henderson- he sucked his first 300 at bats. Witt also sucked his first 300 at bats.

you are embarrassing your yourself.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Allen pitched a solid 5 IP tonight and gave up 1 run

after that:

Cade Smith- 1IP
Barlow- .2
Hentges - .1
Haddis- 1
Clase - 1

that is a freaking devastating lineup of relievers.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Crochet and Fedde are right now the #3 and #4 SP in the AL in WAR. If Chicago plays it right and deals those guys and Roberts they really have a chance to rebuild their farm system fast.

 

[Shanemansj13]

And hes hit his entire career around those injuries. You say "normalcy" but the fact is hes hitting elite without normalcy. You get how that works? Guy comes off the IL for 3 weeks and immediately hits a home run in the playoffs.

Like it works both ways. The only difference is I have numbers to support him being great. You just have "well, he might not be eventually"

Theres stupidity, and then theres this.

And no, I never said superstar(though theres a case) I said hes the clear cut future of this division with Witt. There is no one fucking close to those two aside from a 31 year old Ramirez(hence future). On the hitting side that is.

Like I said, if you want to put him in any discssion with Witt do it for one season at least. It’s that simple

 

[bksballer89]

Kwan is so freaking good