A.L. Central Discussion 2016

[Howie115]

Interesting numbers....I wonder how Vice got the idea that Pelfry was the superior pitcher - compared to Kennedy? LOL

Career-wise, Kennedy is far superior. Two of the last three years, however, Kennedy has stunk it up. Now Pelfrey -- he's pretty much stunk it up his whole career. One wonders how a guy can have a 4.52 career ERA, 1.48 career WHIP and a 1.62 career K/BB ratio and stay in the major leagues, let alone get paid $16 million over the next two years to stay in the majors. His only redeeming quality is he keeps the ball in the park.

No, the Pelfrey signing still makes no sense to me. But neither does 5 years/$70 mill for Ian Kennedy. Hello, Ricky Nolasco.

 

[MiamiVice]

Pelfrey was marginally better in ERA (4.26 to 4.28), but his WHIP was 1.476 to Kennedy's 1.295. Even with an NL-AL correction, that's quite a gap. And K/BB ratio is heavy in favor of Kennedy (3.35 to 1.91).

The big difference in favor of Pelfrey is HR allowed. He only gave up 11 big flies in 2015 and his numbers have historically been low in that category. Kennedy gave up 31 last year (OUCH!).

All told, is Kennedy worth $6 million per year more than Pelfrey? No way.

The funny part of Kennedy's contract will be when he opts in to his last 3 years and is getting paid between 16 mil and 17 mil to be a number 5 starter.

 

[MiamiVice]

Interesting numbers....I wonder how Vice got the idea that Pelfry was the superior pitcher - compared to Kennedy? LOL

Because he was... His WHIP is going to go up in the AL... along with his ERA. He isn't going to be pitching against the NL West's pitchers every 9th batter anymore... He is going to be pitching against a DH. Pelfrey gave up 11 HR last year... in the AL... in a park move conducive to HR in Minnesota than Kennedy's home park in San Diego last year. Kennedy may strike out more batters.. but he also gave up nearly a HR ever game.. and a fun stat... nearly 50% of Kennedy's home runs he gave up in 2015 were multi run HR's... and 5 of them were 3 run or grand slams... 9 of them were 2 run HR. Its not like guy was giving up solo shots with no one on base...

 

[MiamiVice]

Ian Kennedy is going to get sexually assaulted in the AL... His HR/9 is 1.1 for his career... The guy is a meatball thrower.

Pelfrey sucks asshole but he has never given up more than 21 HR in a season... Kennedy has done this 4 times in 6 seasons as a full starter... and has averaged giving up 25 HR a year as a full time starter...

 

[Howie115]

Pelfrey sucks asshole but he has never given up more than 21 HR in a season... Kennedy has done this 4 times in 6 seasons as a full starter... and has averaged giving up 25 HR a year as a full time starter...

I would accept Pelfrey as a borderline #5 starter if he at least ate innings ... but he doesn't. He gets nibbled to death (10.2 hits/9, 3.5 walks/9), faces a lot of batters and throws a lot of pitches. Thus, he rarely lasts 6 innings. That negates the benefits of serving up fewer HR, IMO.

I agree Kennedy will see his WHIP rise in the AL, but I doubt it will go to Pelfrey levels.

 

[MiamiVice]

I would accept Pelfrey as a borderline #5 starter if he at least ate innings ... but he doesn't. He gets nibbled to death (10.2 hits/9, 3.5 walks/9), faces a lot of batters and throws a lot of pitches. Thus, he rarely lasts 6 innings. That negates the benefits of serving up fewer HR, IMO.

I agree Kennedy will see his WHIP rise in the AL, but I doubt it will go to Pelfrey levels.

The key here is that Kennedy is comparable to a #5 starter.. and he just got a 70 mil contract.

 

[MiamiVice]

Ian Kennedy =

 

[MiamiVice]

Something else for Royals fans to think about... Dayton Moore built a winner by drafting well and finding value in low cost free agents. He has ditched that philosophy now and is trying to spend to keep the window open... on long contracts with guys in their mid 30's. They are losing a 1st round draft pick to sign Kennedy... their farm is already depleted from trades last year... and is ranked near the bottom of the league... There is a cliff forming in KC.. when they tip off of it it's not going to be pretty. 2018 and beyond should be fun to watch with 70 million on the books already with just the contracts of 5 guys... 3 of which will be in their mid to late 30's... lol. Smallest market in baseball setting itself up like they are a big market team that can buy their way out... should be fun to watch.

 

[da55bums]

lol, they lost 1 draft pick and you blow it into this. Dayton hasn't ditched his philosophy. He signed Ervin Santana, Edison Vol, Kendrys Morales, traded for Shields and Davis, and got great value out it. he overpayed on Infante and Rios and been to back to back WS's. He seems to know what he is doing quite well.

FYI
Edison pitched for SD - ERA, WHiP went down for KC
Shields went to SD - ERA, WHiP, HR rates rose after leaving KC

now its 2018 they will fall off the cliff, you also claimed for years that they wouldn't even get up the hill, yes genius, hell even saying Dayton would trade Hosmer in 2016, lol, everyone knows KC isn't the Yankees and everyone knows their is a window when you have your anchor players (miggy, Vmart and Verlander declines so will the Tigers, as your witnessing).

The tigers signed long term deals to win a WS and they haven't produced so now Miggy, Verlander and VMarts contracts just starting to wear the tigers down and it showed with those 3 missing time last year. At least the Royals won before their main guys are on the upswing, while the Tigers dream of winning while theirs are on the downswing.

Royals aren't relying on Gordon and Kennedy to carry them, they are relying on Cain, Escobar, Perez, Hosmer, Moose, bullpen. His philosophy will hold as long as he has them. Gordon and Kennedy are for stability. The money Dayton is saving on Escobar, Moose, Cain, Hosmer, Perez, Ventura by them producing above market value is just being used to stabilize the other positions.

They won a World Series, been to 2 in row, that was the goal, they are going for another one while they still can - the Tigers have spent for a decade and haven't been able to win one, they won AL Central titles, that was their goal.

The Royals, small market or large, figured out how to get to back to back WS and become 2015 world champs somehow despite your baseball wisdom and scouting information.

 

[MiamiVice]

lol, they lost 1 draft pick and you blow it into this. Dayton hasn't ditched his philosophy. He signed Ervin Santana, Edison Vol, Kendrys Morales, traded for Shields and Davis, and got great value out it. he overpayed on Infante and Rios and been to back to back WS's. He seems to know what he is doing quite well.

FYI
Edison pitched for SD - ERA, WHiP went down for KC
Shields went to SD - ERA, WHiP, HR rates rose after leaving KC

now its 2018 they will fall off the cliff, you also claimed for years that they wouldn't even get up the hill, yes genius, hell even saying Dayton would trade Hosmer in 2016, lol, everyone knows KC isn't the Yankees and everyone knows their is a window when you have your anchor players (miggy, Vmart and Verlander declines so will the Tigers, as your witnessing).

The tigers signed long term deals to win a WS and they haven't produced so now Miggy, Verlander and VMarts contracts just starting to wear the tigers down and it showed with those 3 missing time last year. At least the Royals won before their main guys are on the upswing, while the Tigers dream of winning while theirs are on the downswing.

Royals aren't relying on Gordon and Kennedy to carry them, they are relying on Cain, Escobar, Perez, Hosmer, Moose, bullpen. His philosophy will hold as long as he has them. Gordon and Kennedy are for stability. The money Dayton is saving on Escobar, Moose, Cain, Hosmer, Perez, Ventura by them producing above market value is just being used to stabilize the other positions.

They won a World Series, been to 2 in row, that was the goal, they are going for another one while they still can - the Tigers have spent for a decade and haven't been able to win one, they won AL Central titles, that was their goal.

The Royals, small market or large, figured out how to get to back to back WS and become 2015 world champs somehow despite your baseball wisdom and scouting information.

Oh... I am not saying the cliff is 2018... I think its next year to be honest... but 2018 the books look spectacularly shitty for KC.

Royals have no stragety for after 2016... next year their payroll is going to be near the top of the league... and after that... they have a ton of free agents that will be looking for huge deals.

You even admitted yourself the Royals farm system is shitty. Losing a 1st Rd draft pick doesn't help bad farms get better. The Royals have no real impact prospects left in their farm.. just a few guys that might be middle of the rotation starters if their arms don't fall off first... and a kid that strikes out like Moya without the power.

Say what you want.. but the Royals are signing a bunch of old fucks to long expensive contracts and doing nothing to lock up their core past their arb seasons.

 

[MiamiVice]

And another thing. idiot... The Tigers owner is a 86 year old worth over 10 billion dollars by some estimates... in a market that is nearly 3 times the size of KC's... and a looming TV deal negotiation that will make what KC has look like pocket change. The Tigers can afford 170-200 mil payrolls for extended periods... KC can't.

 

[MiamiVice]

Royals would be smart to trade Hosmer with even the sniff of missing the playoffs this year...and get max value for him... or lose him for nothing more than a comp pick after 2017. There is no way in hell any team... let alone the KC Royals can afford to pay out the contracts that would be required to keep Hosmer, Moustakas, and Cain.. after signing old farts like Kennedy and Gordon to back loaded long term deals. The writing is on the wall... chose to ignore it if you wish.. but KC is betting on the next 1 or 2 tops and after that has no plan what so ever on how to produce a even remotely decent team.

 

[Howie115]

They won a World Series, been to 2 in row, that was the goal, they are going for another one while they still can - the Tigers have spent for a decade and haven't been able to win one, they won AL Central titles, that was their goal.

Winning AL Central titles was the Tigers GOAL? Just because they haven't won a WS in the 10 years of the free-spending Ilitch doesn't mean it was not their goal. Sheesh.

 

[MiamiVice]

Winning AL Central titles was the Tigers GOAL? Just because they haven't won a WS in the 10 years of the free-spending Ilitch doesn't mean it was not their goal. Sheesh.

LOL... Bums knows I am right... He said himself the royals farm was garbage and ranked only slightly better than the Tigers. If the core of your team all ends up as first time free agents at the same time... and you have been signing aging shit bags to long term back loaded deals... you are not setting your team up to maintain its success. He knows this.. but he won't admit it. The Royals are doing everything they can to stay in the discussion for this year... not carrying about what is going to happen in 2017 and beyond in terms of payroll and talent level. KC isn't buying its way out of it. They may be able to keep 1 of the 3 in Moustakas, Cain, and Hosmer... and if Hosmer has a solid year... its not going to be him...

No prospects + No Money To Spend On Free Agents = no bueno.

 

[da55bums]

Yes, KC sold their farm for WS runs, its the way it works. KC farm ranked 22nd and Det 28th right now. Yes, everyone knows KC won't spend to just try and buy a WS ring. KC has to build most of the team from the farm. Its the way small markets work Congrats, you have an understanding of the system.

You saying KC not continue to go to WS's is like you saying the sun will come up tomorrow. Its inevitable. KC will have to rebuild again, then they will spend money. Glass won't throw money away to finish in last place before winning the WS, he sure won't throw it away after winning. If Illitch actually wins one, who knows how he will spend money, but he has thrown money and the farm at it and not won.

You say the Royals have no strategy after 2016 - you said they had no strategy in 2013- I am sure your right again.

Royals are signing a bunch of ol fucks - who? like Vmart old? Joe Nathan old? like Torii Hunter old? KRod get a clue

the Royals would be STUPID to trade Hosmer in 2016- your a moron if you think otherwise, they didn't trade Santana or Shields at the end of their deals because THEY are trying to win, comp picks were fine. Dayton will "think" about in 2017, ONLY if they don't have a shot (like under .500 shot like the TIgers dealing Price)

You keep saying KC can't afford things - payroll gone up 5 years in a row and they keep getting FAs, said they couldn't keep Gordon, they did, then you say he is too old at 31. Christ - Tigers signed VMart at 36. Nathan at 4 freakin 1, Torii at 37....the Tigers sign old fucks and try to win with them, great strategy.

The Royals haven't signed any aging shit bags, all the Royals players contracts will end before all 3 players I listed STARTED with Detroit. Those were the definition desperation signings.

If the Tigers wanted to win a WS in the 10 yrs of illitch, they could have bought it, by not signing old fucks, spending a few bucks on a bullpen, resigning FA's like Peralta, Benoit, Max. Replacing clowns like Coke, Inge and Avila by spending spending spending from the rich guy on smart contracts. DD just didn't know how to address his weak spots at ALL. Detroit if ran right should have won 3 WS in the last 10 years like the giants, during those 10 years they had the best player in the game and best pitcher.

 

[Iffster]

Because he was... His WHIP is going to go up in the AL... along with his ERA. He isn't going to be pitching against the NL West's pitchers every 9th batter anymore... He is going to be pitching against a DH. Pelfrey gave up 11 HR last year... in the AL... in a park move conducive to HR in Minnesota than Kennedy's home park in San Diego last year. Kennedy may strike out more batters.. but he also gave up nearly a HR ever game.. and a fun stat... nearly 50% of Kennedy's home runs he gave up in 2015 were multi run HR's... and 5 of them were 3 run or grand slams... 9 of them were 2 run HR. Its not like guy was giving up solo shots with no one on base...

What a tool. I question how Vice saw Pelfry as a better pitcher than Kennedy in 2015 - and he tells me about what will happen in 2016!!!!. Then he details ONE stat...HRs allowed. Talk about a pile of bullshit and a swerve. Damn Vice....you didn't answer my fuckin' question. You avoided it and tried to swerve your way around it. You made your usual loudmouth statement that Pelfry was better than Kennedy in 2015 and tried to cover that stupid remark up with your usual bullshit. Well helllllllooooo dougie!!! lmao

 

[da55bums]

LOL... Bums knows I am right... He said himself the royals farm was garbage and ranked only slightly better than the Tigers. If the core of your team all ends up as first time free agents at the same time... and you have been signing aging shit bags to long term back loaded deals... you are not setting your team up to maintain its success. He knows this.. but he won't admit it. The Royals are doing everything they can to stay in the discussion for this year... not carrying about what is going to happen in 2017 and beyond in terms of payroll and talent level. KC isn't buying its way out of it. They may be able to keep 1 of the 3 in Moustakas, Cain, and Hosmer... and if Hosmer has a solid year... its not going to be him...

No prospects + No Money To Spend On Free Agents = no bueno.

You have been wrong every year since 2012, you again have no clue about the Royals in 2016 or 2017. Yes everyone on the planet knows it will change when Hosmer, Cain and Moose become FA's in 18.

Its a small market...you take your shots when you get them. Royals ROCKED their shot and going for another.

 

[MiamiVice]

As of

Yes, KC sold their farm for WS runs, its the way it works. KC farm ranked 22nd and Det 28th right now. Yes, everyone knows KC won't spend to just try and buy a WS ring. KC has to build most of the team from the farm. Its the way small markets work Congrats, you have an understanding of the system.

You saying KC not continue to go to WS's is like you saying the sun will come up tomorrow. Its inevitable. KC will have to rebuild again, then they will spend money. Glass won't throw money away to finish in last place before winning the WS, he sure won't throw it away after winning. If Illitch actually wins one, who knows how he will spend money, but he has thrown money and the farm at it and not won.

You say the Royals have no strategy after 2016 - you said they had no strategy in 2013- I am sure your right again.

Royals are signing a bunch of ol fucks - who? like Vmart old? Joe Nathan old? like Torii Hunter old? KRod get a clue

the Royals would be STUPID to trade Hosmer in 2016- your a moron if you think otherwise, they didn't trade Santana or Shields at the end of their deals because THEY are trying to win, comp picks were fine. Dayton will "think" about in 2017, ONLY if they don't have a shot (like under .500 shot like the TIgers dealing Price)

You keep saying KC can't afford things - payroll gone up 5 years in a row and they keep getting FAs, said they couldn't keep Gordon, they did, then you say he is too old at 31. Christ - Tigers signed VMart at 36. Nathan at 4 freakin 1, Torii at 37....the Tigers sign old fucks and try to win with them, great strategy.

The Royals haven't signed any aging shit bags, all the Royals players contracts will end before all 3 players I listed STARTED with Detroit. Those were the definition desperation signings.

If the Tigers wanted to win a WS in the 10 yrs of illitch, they could have bought it, by not signing old fucks, spending a few bucks on a bullpen, resigning FA's like Peralta, Benoit, Max. Replacing clowns like Coke, Inge and Avila by spending spending spending from the rich guy on smart contracts. DD just didn't know how to address his weak spots at ALL. Detroit if ran right should have won 3 WS in the last 10 years like the giants, during those 10 years they had the best player in the game and best pitcher.

Are you retarded?

 

[Iffster]

You have been wrong every year since 2012, you again have no clue about the Royals in 2016 or 2017. Yes everyone on the planet knows it will change when Hosmer, Cain and Moose become FA's in 18.

Its a small market...you take your shots when you get them. Royals ROCKED their shot and going for another.

Bums....it is the usual Vice swerve and spin. He can't talk about the past.
HEY VICE.....what team has been to the World Series the last two years??? Detroit?
Helllloooooo dougie

 

[da55bums]

you have proven every year to be completely retarded about the Royals, as well as so much more