A.L. Central Discussion 2016

[MiamiVice]

Dixon Machado?

I think if your old broke dick worked still you would beat it thinking about me iffy.

 

[Iffster]

I think if your old broke dick worked still you would beat it thinking about me iffy.

Are you going to start crying again like you did over on the Tiger thread? "Boo hoo, please like me and not Iffy! Boo hoo hoo!"

 

[Iffster]

But you are right....I think giving up Dixon Machado for Bubba would be too much. Maybe even swap for Bruce Rondon?

 

[broncosmitty]

Hunter Dozier, Bubba, Binford, Almonte, Jorge Boni... still enough on the shelf for 1 more year of sale. Didn't like too many 2015 draft picks though and they all aren't starting out well either.

If one more arm can be bought, I could see a third year deep into October.

 

[da55bums]

I think if your old broke dick worked still you would beat it thinking about me iffy.

Holy cow, you wish a lot of men would beat off to you

Your a Catlin Jenner fan

 

[MiamiVice]

Holy cow, you wish a lot of men would beat off to you

Your a Catlin Jenner fan

I can't help you two faggots are attracted to my online persona.

 

[da55bums]

If one more arm can be bought, I could see a third year deep into October.

they have it to sell for 1 more year, hell they took all pitching in the draft, sell them before they start to suck

 

[da55bums]

I can't help you two faggots are attracted to my online persona.

I can't help your inner struggle either.

 

[MiamiVice]

I can't help your inner struggle either.

How is your struggle to move out of your parents house going?

 

[Iffster]

Let's keep it to baseball, Mr. Vice. Your personal problems and disputes need not be brought up here.

There is plenty to discuss concerning the possibility of another year of post season play for the Royals. No need to start on your personal dilemmas

 

[WiggyRuss]

Indians are not in Royals league for defense - Royals could have 6 GG this season - Gordon, Cain, Moose, Esky, Hosmer, Perez - They will never let a team win 6 in one season but 4 have already won them, Cain and Moose could be due this year.

Indians look like a cheaper version of the Tigers a few seasons ago, if they can score the runs for their stud starters, they definitely have a better pen than the Tigers did.

your right. Indians defense isnt as good as the Royals- but they do have a solid defense- assuming Naquin wins the CF job- you have an up the middle of Gomes, Lindor/Kipnis, Naquin which is really good- Chiz was awesome in right with a cannon- Brantley has a poor arm but is very good in the outfield.

Napoli played a very good 1st base last year--- from plain dealer article about Napoli probably being the starter over Santana- "Right now that probably means Napoli has the edge. He was a finalist in the AL Gold Glove voting last year when he played for Boston and Texas." while he is not awesome by any means he is certainly in the top half in the AL.

Uribe is a pig- but Urshela played last year a lot of games and i will tell ya- it wasnt because of his fucking bat. lol. the guy can play some d.

The Indians defense was one of the best inthe league in the 2nd half last year after all the lineup changes

Defense Mechanisms: Inside the Indians’ Historic Fielding Turnaround

Embrace yourself for some “sinces.” Since that May 20 DRS nadir, Cleveland’s total has risen by 42 runs, the most in the majors. Since the end of April, only the Blue Jays — whose position players are big bullies who beat everyone at everything — have a higher Defensive Efficiency. Since the end of May, the Indians have the highest. And since the end of June, the Indians have recorded a higher Defensive Efficiency than any team has over a full season since the 116-win 2001 Mariners. If the season ended today, the difference between the Indians’ Defensive Efficiency at the end of April and their Defensive Efficiency at the end of the year would be the biggest of any team’s since at least 1950. Essentially, the Indians defense has pulled off the most dramatic midseason makeover we’ve ever seen. “We all have different ways of measuring defense, but we felt we went from a below-average team defense in the first half to one of the top two or three team defenses in the second half,” Antonetti says.

The Indians are playing like a different team on defense because they’ve thoroughly reshuffled their roster. Foremost among the changes is a shiny new left side of the infield. “We knew that if we got to a point in time that we felt we weren’t making the progress we hoped as a team, that we had a couple of very good defensive options for us in Triple-A in Francisco Lindor at shortstop and obviously Giovanny Urshela at third base,” Antonetti says. “We felt pretty confident in their defensive ability to come up and contribute at the major league level.” That point in time was mid-June, when the 23-year-old Urshela and the 21-year-old Lindor arrived within a week of each other. Despite his late arrival, Lindor already leads all AL shortstops in DRS, and Urshela also rates above average.

In addition to promoting from within, the Indians also added by subtraction, trading or demoting corner outfielders Brandon Moss, David Murphy, Nick Swisher, and Jerry Sands, all of whom were among their worst defenders and weren’t producing enough at the plate to justify their costly innings in the field. They filled their right-field vacancy in the usual way, by moving a third baseman with zero professional outfield experience.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean its not a bad formula to have- both very good top-end starting pitching, and very deep starting pitching depth---- a good closer--- a good defense--- and a few home grown hitters with a few vets sprinkled in.

Of course when SI picked the Indians to go to the WS last year I was mortified- i just didnt feel good about the team. I had no faith in Swisher at DH, Bourne in center, Moss at 1b/dh, Gomes went down early with a knee injury and rushed back to his detriment, very little faith in Jose Ramirez at SS (especially when he knew he had Lindor breathing down his neck which resulted in him tightening up and choking)...Chiz in addition to being below average at the plate was obviously letting in get in his head in the field and it showed...Aviles was cooked- i cant believe the Tigers signed him....that was SOOO many thrown away at bats.

Think of the differences this year.

Instead of 2 months of Jose Ramirez who batted UNDER .200 in those 2 months- you have Francisco Lindor- enough said.

Instead of Michael Bourne- who couldnt DO anything- play D, throw the ball, run, hit- 290 at bats- .246/.313 0hr, 13 steals.--- you will likely have Tyler Naquin- a former 15th overall pick who was heralded as "the best pure hitter in the draft"- all though he has basically no power- he has a CANNON- and can play D--- He has hit over .300 the last 2 years in AA and AAA.

Baseball Prospectus- 2014-Top Outfield Arm in the Minor Leagues: Tyler Naquin (Cleveland Indians)
While opinions varied on the strongest arm in the minor leagues, Naquin certainly had his share of supporters. Seeing Naquin myself last year, he had an easily recognizable plus-plus cannon attached to his body, with the ability to unleash throws from the deepest parts of the park. Aside from plenty of natural velocity, Naquin’s throws carry extremely well, and he displays very good accuracy when throwing to any base. Naquin’s arm strength fits well in right field, but his defensive chops have improved enough for him to stick in center, making his arm an absolute weapon.

Obviously a Uribe/Urshela sharing of 3rd base- is an improvement defensively and offensively over what they had last year with Chiz starting- and Urshela really struggling offensively. Urshela should hit better than he did last year after some experience- and if he cant- Uribe can fill in the gaps and provide some pop. Im not expecting huge things from URshela or Uribe- quite the contrary- When Chisenhall got sent down and lost the 3rd base job in July- the three previous months he had hit .221 in April (his best month!!!), .209 in May and, .174 in 8 games before he was MERCIFULLY sent down to the minors- where of course he hit the shit outta the ball as he always has. Think about that- the Indians from April to June 7th played Chiz who was AWFUL at 3rd- and hit UNDER .200..........just plain SUCKITUDE from Urshela and Uribe- if both guys sucked ass- would be much better than what Chiz did. IF Urshela plays solid D- hits .240 with a little pop- and Uribe fills in here or there, hits 240 with a little pop- that will be LEAPS AND BOUNDS over what they got last year.


How about Lonnie? Hits under .200 until he gets sent down. Comes up on July 30th- and promptly hits .288 the rest of the way playing Gold Glove caliber right field--- replacing a disaster in Brandon Moss.

Mike Aviles was so bad last year too. I cant believe he still has a job. 290 at bats. .232 avg, .282 obp, 5 hrs- he had the worst oWAR on the Indians last year- and let me tell ya- there were some TOUGH candidates to beat out for that honor. This guy blows.

I was pissed to see Raburn go. He was a nice platoon guy. Good clubhouse guy too. I guess they thought theyd rather have Davis i guess.

Brandon Moss hits .217/.288 in 337 at bats-- Swisher is so hurt he only has 100 at bats but hits under .200.....

do you guys get a theme? Moss, Aviles, Chiz, Swisher, Bourne, etc.....these guys werent bad- they were SO FREAKING BAD it defies explanation. Just getting even SEMI competent replacements will make a big deal.

not only that- but last year- I liked the Indians front of the rotation- but the depth was worrisome-
Tomlin was coming back from injury- Cody Anderson was lightly regarded- and some of the prospects were still pretty far away- Bauer is of course a known-head case (though his stuff is awesome)......the 4, 5, and depth spots were worrisome.

A year later?

(i)The Indians draft Aiken- former #1 overall pick that had to have Tommy John- was unsigned and the Indians redrafted at about #20- lefty. Article on Aiken "
Despite the earnings dropoff, Aiken can finally move forward with his MLB career after being picked 17th Monday. And it might just be for the best that way. In Cleveland, he may have found the perfect organization to develop him into a successful big league pitcher. Even with the injury concerns, there is little denying Aiken's talent. After drafting him first overall a year ago, Astros GM Jeff Luhnow had nothing but huge praise for the lefty."[He's] the most advanced high school pitcher I've ever seen in my entire career," Luhnow told ESPN.com. "He has command like I've never seen before of his stuff."Although he won't pitch again until next spring, Aiken could prove to be a huge pick for an Indians club that is already loaded with young pitching.

(ii) Indians trade BRANDON MOSS for Rob Kaminsky- lefty- former 1st rounder of the Cardinals who has pitched well- said of the deal "the Cardinals decided to bolster their offense by acquiring Brandon Moss from the Indians on Thursday morning. But the price that St. Louis paid, lefty pitching prospect Rob Kaminsky, is a steep one for a club in its position. Getting Moss at the cost of Kaminsky seems like an overpay. The Cardinals shouldn't have had to surrender the No. 88 player on MLBPipeline.com's Top 100 Prospects list for Moss. If they were willing to part with Kaminsky, they should have been able to get a better bat.Kaminsky, 20, was the 28th overall pick in the 2013 Draft out of St. Joseph Regional (Montvale, N.J.) High School, and he signed for $1,785,300. He has had success at all three of his stops in the Cards' system, and he has gone 6-5 with a 2.09 ERA in 17 starts this year as one of the youngest pitchers in the Class A Advanced Florida State League. Kaminsky leads the FSL in ERA, has limited opponents to a .228 average and sports a 79/28 K/BB ratio in 94 2/3 innings.Kamnsky has an outstanding curveball, a sharp downer in the upper 70s. He also has two other pitches that project to become at least solid big league offerings, a fastball that tops out at 95 mph and a changeup with some fade. Kaminsky throws lots of strikes and has earned kudos for his competitiveness.

(iii) Mike Clevinger- also a Tommy John guy- Indians trade for him while he is hurt in 2014- for Vinnie Pestano (I loved Vinnie Pestano when he was good)- ARticle on Clevinger-
Clevinger has flourished in the Indians farm system.

Clevinger threw 158.0 innings over 27 starts playing for the Double-A Akron RubberDucks, both career highs at any one level in the minors. He is only three years removed from Tommy John surgery on his throwing arm, but if anything, he has come out better than he was pre-surgery. In 2015, he struck out 22.7 percent of the batters he faced and walked just 6.3 percent

That improved control and lowered walk rate helped Clevinger to be one of the best pitchers in the Double-A Eastern League, and lead to him receiving a call-up to Triple-A just in time to aid the Columbus Clippers during their playoff run. In his debut at the Triple-A level--in a playoff atmosphere no less--Clevinger went seven and two-thirds innings without giving up a single hit while striking out a career-high 10 opponents. He did not technically complete the no-hit bid, however, as he was pulled after 102 pitches.At 6’4" and 220 pounds, Clevinger is built similar to a prototypical right-handed power pitcher, but he is more a control pitcher. His fastball sits in the low- to mid-90s, but has been known to reach as high as 97. To complement his fastball, Clevinger also sports three above average secondary pitches: A slider, a curveball, and a changeup.

(iv) Tomlin Comes back- Josh Tomlin pitched awesome once he came back from injury down the stretch

(v) Cody Anderson- a fringe prospect- really showed a lot of poise and maturation and pitched well. He has added velocity this spring

 

[MiamiVice]

Jesus Christ dude you just posted a book about shit nobody cares about.

 

[Iffster]

Jesus Christ dude you just posted a book about shit nobody cares about.

Blessed Buddha dude, you spent over three years boring everybody to death with your stupid crap about bums. This guy's post was baseball related. Your endless posts about bums were not.

So I guess you qualify for the biggest ass! Congrats.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Blessed Buddha dude, you spent over three years boring everybody to death with your stupid crap about bums. This guy's post was baseball related. Your endless posts about bums were not.

So I guess you qualify for the biggest ass! Congrats.

thanks- i def dont expect everyone to read through all those posts--- whatever---- some good stuff there though--- even i was surprised to learn that Naquin has the best arm in the minors- or that Aiken was taken 17th by the tribe after being taken #1 overall the year before----

keep your eye on Mike Clevinger though- he has some real similarities to Corey Kluber.....obviously i dont expect the guy to become an ace like Kluber- but he can become a guy you would feel good about being one of your later starters in a playoff series.




I just hope the tribe gets off to a good start for once- because if they are playing well- they have the assets to go get some help at the deadline.


I can only imagine a potential rotation of Kluber, Carrasco, Aiken, Salazar, Bauer/Clevinger- at some point down the line- the best part is- all these guys- even the major league guys- are under the Indians control for cheap for years to come.

It costs the Indians less to field their entire starting rotation than it does for the Tigers to pay Jordan Zimmerman- who would be the Indians 4th starter.

 

[WiggyRuss]

But you are right....I think giving up Dixon Machado for Bubba would be too much. Maybe even swap for Bruce Rondon?

I wonder how Rondon will do this year for hte Tigers--- the guy has a ridiculous arm- and if he ever got his head on straight could be a big time weapon.

 

[MiamiVice]

thanks- i def dont expect everyone to read through all those posts--- whatever---- some good stuff there though--- even i was surprised to learn that Naquin has the best arm in the minors- or that Aiken was taken 17th by the tribe after being taken #1 overall the year before----

keep your eye on Mike Clevinger though- he has some real similarities to Corey Kluber.....obviously i dont expect the guy to become an ace like Kluber- but he can become a guy you would feel good about being one of your later starters in a playoff series.




I just hope the tribe gets off to a good start for once- because if they are playing well- they have the assets to go get some help at the deadline.


I can only imagine a potential rotation of Kluber, Carrasco, Aiken, Salazar, Bauer/Clevinger- at some point down the line- the best part is- all these guys- even the major league guys- are under the Indians control for cheap for years to come.

It costs the Indians less to field their entire starting rotation than it does for the Tigers to pay Jordan Zimmerman- who would be the Indians 4th starter.

You should post that kind of shit on the indians board where someone might give a fuck about it... fans of other AL Central teams don't give a fuck about Mike Clevinger or NAquin.

 

[Iffster]

Someone should do an in-depth report on the Detroit Tigers. Covering not only the probable 25 man roster and the high points of those players....but the many(?) prospects waiting in the wings to take over in the near future. I know that there is a guy who posts on the Tiger thread who knows all about the prospects in the Tigers system from future starting SS Dixon Machado to starting LF Gerber Baby Food. He's a real homer so I don't know if he can give a balanced view of things (I am sure he will label all the current Tigers as All Stars).....but he is the man to give us his views! He knows his stuff, and he will tell you he does....over, and over....if he can just get away from those 8 businesses he runs.

 

[Iffster]

I see Adam LaRoche might retire. If he was playing in Detroit, Illitch would sign him to a three year extension.

 

[Howie115]

Mike Aviles was so bad last year too. I cant believe he still has a job. 290 at bats. .232 avg, .282 obp, 5 hrs- he had the worst oWAR on the Indians last year- and let me tell ya- there were some TOUGH candidates to beat out for that honor. This guy blows.

Yes he does. The Tigers have clones in Aviles and Romine, as far as hitting goes, so I'd be scratching my head if both come north with the team. Of the two, I'd rather have Romine for that backup infielder role. Romine plays better defense and can still steal a base. I guess Aviles can play some outfield, too, but I'm not sure how well.