• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

49ers Agree to Trade Framework with Patriots and Browns Regarding WR Aiyuk

kcden

Well-Known Member
2,630
858
113
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Location
Edmonds, WA
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,680.68
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
For teams with:
1. Front office personnel who have the expertise in how to structure contracts to manipulate cap
2. A willing owner who is willing to pay more playing the extension, restructure, kick the cap down the road game

The NFL salary cap is nothing but a mirage.
You're describing "smart front offices" in the NFL... those teams DON'T capitulate and pay their 9th best player (taking one of the Niners fan's on here word for it) more than the front office thinks they're worth.
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You're describing "smart front offices" in the NFL... those teams DON'T capitulate and pay their 9th best player (taking one of the Niners fan's on here word for it) more than the front office thinks they're worth.
Reports are that they came up to $26 million. He would command 30 million. Losing WR1 during a Super Bowl window on the eve of the season … smart front office in your eyes? Not finding a way to structure in $4 million when you were already at $26? Questionable.
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Not on the contract that Aiyuk is on. He is playing out his rookie deal. He was a 1st round pick and thus got paid a 25%+ premium for his 1st 4 years in the league because of it. That extra cash comes at a price and the price is the 5th year option where a teams can pay you a premium dollar value for 1 extra year of service. That's the deal he is on.

You would have a point if he were on his 2nd or 3rd deal and he had no guaranteed money left on his deal. But that is a completely different situation.

People dont realize the 5th year tender and how much more 1st rounders get paid because of it. Go look at the contracts of Xavier Leggette the 32nd pick in the 2024 draft and the Keon Coleman the 33rd pick in the draft. Both guys are WR's only separated by a single pick. One guy gets $12.3M contract with it fully guaranteed while the other get $10.07M with not all of that guaranteed. The extra $2M which is a 25% raise over Coleman comes at the price of possibly being paid a top value contract for a single season under the 5th year tender.

....

And people whine about players possibly being cut.

It BENEFITS players in general that specific players who aren't living up to their contracts get cut. It assures that the players who are actually performing out on the football field are the ones that get the cash. The money doesn't just go back to the owners pocket. It goes to a player who deserves it. The players get a percentage of revenue. Whether that money goes to a player who isn't performing or to one who is, it doesn't change how much the owners player the players as a whole.

It doesn't benefit players in general, the owners or the league as a whole to have the league handing out fully guaranteed deals and having a big percentage of the dollars going to players who are no longer performing. It just makes the amount of money that the owners can pay players who are performing smaller.
This is a whole lot of immaterial relative to my point. The expectation among fans (especially on this website) is “play out your contract, honor your contract”. My comment is that NFL franchises will be cutting dozens of guys on contracts over the next few weeks so they don’t really honor contracts. We don’t demand that of the teams. We just demand that of players. I was speaking to the double standard that exists here.
 

Shanemansj13

Finger Poppin Dat Pussy
115,499
35,676
1,033
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Location
Dallas
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,625.55
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
You're describing "smart front offices" in the NFL... those teams DON'T capitulate and pay their 9th best player (taking one of the Niners fan's on here word for it) more than the front office thinks they're worth.
Especially if he is paid like the 2nd best player on the team next year
 

Stakesarehigh

One day it will all make sense
42,646
27,379
1,033
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Location
Cincinnati
Hoopla Cash
$ 77,957.12
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
For teams with:
1. Front office personnel who have the expertise in how to structure contracts to manipulate cap
2. A willing owner who is willing to pay more playing the extension, restructure, kick the cap down the road game

The NFL salary cap is nothing but a mirage.

For all of Haslems faults the dude will spend money. That is thr 2nd most important trait of any owner. Number 1 is hiring the right people and letting them do their job
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
For all of Haslems faults the dude will spend money. That is thr 2nd most important trait of any owner. Number 1 is hiring the right people and letting them do their job
People assume that because the NFL has a salary cap that they all pay the same money for player salaries. Nope. You can manipulate the cap with extensions and restructures that kick the can down the road
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,714
18,496
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Reports are that they came up to $26 million. He would command 30 million. Losing WR1 during a Super Bowl window on the eve of the season … smart front office in your eyes? Not finding a way to structure in $4 million when you were already at $26? Questionable.
He has reportedly not budged on his 30M number. The Niners have gone up, and he returned with the same number. He isn’t negotiating, he is demanding. And he is NOT a 30M WR.

And the Niners still need to sign Williams (1000x more important than Aiyuk) and Purdy is going to be getting 50M after next year.

And as has been stated, the argument can be made that he around the #9 player on the roster. So even if he were worth 30M, no team can afford to pay their #9 player 30M.
 

Stakesarehigh

One day it will all make sense
42,646
27,379
1,033
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Location
Cincinnati
Hoopla Cash
$ 77,957.12
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
People assume that because the NFL has a salary cap that they all pay the same money for player salaries. Nope. You can manipulate the cap with extensions and restructures that kick the can down the road

Well yes. Paying bonuses up front requires the owner to sign the check. The cap can be manipulated to a degree in that sense yes..I don't agree that it is a total mirage though. But smart front offices with a willing owner can do some work.
 

Stakesarehigh

One day it will all make sense
42,646
27,379
1,033
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Location
Cincinnati
Hoopla Cash
$ 77,957.12
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
He has reportedly not budged on his 30M number. The Niners have gone up, and he returned with the same number. He isn’t negotiating, he is demanding. And he is NOT a 30M WR.

And the Niners still need to sign Williams (1000x more important than Aiyuk) and Purdy is going to be getting 50M after next year.

And as has been stated, the argument can be made that he around the #9 player on the roster. So even if he were worth 30M, no team can afford to pay their #9 player 30M.

Yes you guys have too many high dollar guys to pay him that.
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
He has reportedly not budged on his 30M number. The Niners have gone up, and he returned with the same number. He isn’t negotiating, he is demanding. And he is NOT a 30M WR.
Whether you like it or not, he is a $30 million dollar WR. 1300 yards. 7 TDs 15 YPC. Two number 2s were paid AAV of 28 million in Devonta Smith and Waddle. Amon Ra St Brown is getting 30. 30 is the number for Ayuik’s value.
And the Niners still need to sign Williams (1000x more important than Aiyuk) and Purdy is going to be getting 50M after next year.
Then why have they offered anything at all? Why offer $26 million?
And as has been stated, the argument can be made that he around the #9 player on the roster. So even if he were worth 30M, no team can afford to pay their #9 player 30M.
This is just coping shit. I saw the list. Some of those guys are RBs TEs and LBs and other positions that aren’t highly paid positions in the NFL’s salary structure. This is the market for WRs. It is what it is.
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Yes you guys have too many high dollar guys to pay him that.
And this is a very fair position to take. Be decisive. If this is where they are with their salary cap philosophy then get this done pre draft or even post draft. Now they’re engaged at camp and they have issues with Ayuik and Trent. I don’t know how anyone can defend the work of the Niners front office here.
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,714
18,496
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Whether you like it or not, he is a $30 million dollar WR. 1300 yards. 7 TDs 15 YPC. Two number 2s were paid AAV of 28 million in Devonta Smith and Waddle. Amon Ra St Brown is getting 30. 30 is the number for Ayuik’s value.

Then why have they offered anything at all? Why offer $26 million?

This is just coping shit. I saw the list. Some of those guys are RBs TEs and LBs and other positions that aren’t highly paid positions in the NFL’s salary structure. This is the market for WRs. It is what it is.
And the WR market unexpectedly blew up this off season. Blaming the Niners for not being prepared for a ridiculous inflation of that position group just comes off as Niners hate rather than rational debate.

And that list I put together was not copy/paste. I heard the “#9 player” argument elsewhere, but I put the list together myself. Some of those players are iffy (mainly Juice) and some aren’t getting paid YET (Purdy), but I also said ARGUABLY. Maybe he is #8? #7?

Bad teams that have no other good teams can overpay for “flash” players. Deep teams that are “in the window” cand over pay in the same manner. If he wants to play for the Dolphins of the league, then he can get 30M. But if he wants to play for Chiefs or the Niners of the league, he needs to look in the 26 neighborhood.
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,714
18,496
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
And this is a very fair position to take. Be decisive. If this is where they are with their salary cap philosophy then get this done pre draft or even post draft. Now they’re engaged at camp and they have issues with Ayuik and Trent. I don’t know how anyone can defend the work of the Niners front office here.
Again, it takes two to trade or sign a contract. If the reports are true that Aiyuk has not budged from his 30M number, than it wasn’t possible for the Niners to “get it done”. That is a non-starter number for them. As for trading him before or during the draft, reportedly (again, none of us actually know anything) teams were not willing to part with even high 2s for Aiyuk. And the Niners were not going to give him away for less than that.
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
And the WR market unexpectedly blew up this off season. Blaming the Niners for not being prepared for a ridiculous inflation of that position group just comes off as Niners hate rather than rational debate.
I disagree completely. You’re letting your front office off the hook. That really nice WR draft class was coming up for extensions. Many guys were due to get paid. Cee Dee Lamb is another who hasn’t gotten paid yet. (Cowboys are worthy of criticism here as well). They got caught with their pants down. They totally misjudged the way that position is being valued. That’s a big aspect of the job haha.
And that list I put together was not copy/paste. I heard the “#9 player” argument elsewhere, but I put the list together myself. Some of those players are iffy (mainly Juice) and some aren’t getting paid YET (Purdy), but I also said ARGUABLY. Maybe he is #8? #7?
That really wasn’t my point. I was talking about positional values in the NFL. Daniel Jones would be something like the 20th best football player on your team. Meanwhile, he’s a bottom 1/3 NFL starter salary slot at his position. He would be the highest salaried player on your team. Positions matter when talking value of these players.
Bad teams that have no other good teams can overpay for “flash” players. Deep teams that are “in the window” cand over pay in the same manner. If he wants to play for the Dolphins of the league, then he can get 30M. But if he wants to play for Chiefs or the Niners of the league, he needs to look in the 26 neighborhood.
I’m sorry but when we are talking what amounts to 1.5% (4 million) of the 255 million dollar cap this defense is really an indictment on your cap team’s inability to get creative or your ownership’s unwillingness to do what it takes financially to win the franchise’s first Super Bowl in 30 years.
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Again, it takes two to trade or sign a contract. If the reports are true that Aiyuk has not budged from his 30M number, than it wasn’t possible for the Niners to “get it done”. That is a non-starter number for them. As for trading him before or during the draft, reportedly (again, none of us actually know anything) teams were not willing to part with even high 2s for Aiyuk. And the Niners were not going to give him away for less than that.
Then they pay the piper of having a malcontent in their camp. They have a headache to deal with while also trying to get their best (and really only above average - very above average) OL contract done as well.


As this continues, I don’t how people continue to defend the Niners front office on this one. Smells a lot like a Stepford Wife - my favorite team is always right kind of stuff to me.
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,714
18,496
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
That really wasn’t my point. I was talking about positional values in the NFL. Daniel Jones would be something like the 20th best football player on your team. Meanwhile, he’s a bottom 1/3 NFL starter salary slot at his position. He would be the highest salaried player on your team. Positions matter when talking value of these players.
Um…

What?
 

Shanemansj13

Finger Poppin Dat Pussy
115,499
35,676
1,033
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Location
Dallas
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,625.55
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
We are all talking about money, like why can't they give him an extra $4M a year. Well if every player got an extra $4M a year you would have cap issues. I think it is more about the player and their value to the team going forward. They know he is a damn good player but they might not think he is very important to the teams' success down the road so they disagree with his value and Aiyuk wants to be paid like a top 3 WR. Hard to evaluate his value with a ridiculous offense around him and a genius OC/HC.

I blame the 49ers for not progressing this sooner but I also don't know what was going behind closed doors. As far as we know they tried to work out a deal and they talked to teams before the draft. Maybe they didn't go too far in those talks, teams were lowballing them or they thought Aiyuk would budge from the $30M a year. These are things we don't know so putting all the blame on the FO is not fair imo. I think it is on both parties to work out a deal. Nothing you can do now, it is what it is.
 

calsnowskier

Sarcastic F-wad
63,714
18,496
1,033
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Location
San Diego
Hoopla Cash
$ 2,900.09
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I’m sorry but when we are talking what amounts to 1.5% (4 million) of the 255 million dollar cap this defense is really an indictment on your cap team’s inability to get creative or your ownership’s unwillingness to do what it takes financially to win the franchise’s first Super Bowl in 30 years.
Seeing as that 255M needs to be split amongst 53 roster spots, you are talking about essentially a full player’s allotment. For a player already set to make 14M. Who has been offered 26M. The line has to be drawn, or EVERY player will just demand that extra 4M.

Aiyuk is a very good receiver. But he is arguably the #4 option for targets on this team. That is not a 30M price tag. If he wants the 30M, go to a team that will rate him as the #1 option, understanding that the Niners currently own his rights, and he doesn’t have free movement at the moment.
 

fightinfunbags

Well-Known Member
58,497
37,757
1,033
Joined
Apr 17, 2020
Location
G
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,330.02
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
We are all talking about money, like why can't they give him an extra $4M a year. Well if every player got an extra $4M a year you would have cap issues.
We aren’t talking about every player. We are talking about their number 1 WR and the guy who stretches the field for them. His ability to draw a safety and press the defense deeper is what opens up crossers and intermediate stuff. It’s an incredibly important role in the modern NFL and why these WRs get paid so much these days.
I think it is more about the player and their value to the team going forward. They know he is a damn good player but they might not think he is very important to the teams' success down the road so they disagree with his value and Aiyuk wants to be paid like a top 3 WR. Hard to evaluate his value with a ridiculous offense around him and a genius OC/HC.
Then why is he being offered $26 million?!?!? This argument is fine. I might personally disagree but this is an argument to just punt on the player.
I blame the 49ers for not progressing this sooner but I also don't know what was going behind closed doors. As far as we know they tried to work out a deal and they talked to teams before the draft. Maybe they didn't go too far in those talks, teams were lowballing them or they thought Aiyuk would budge from the $30M a year. These are things we don't know so putting all the blame on the FO is not fair imo. I think it is on both parties to work out a deal. Nothing you can do now, it is what it is.
This is fair if for no other reason than the fact that we are going by what has been reported. I would push back with this: we know for sure that they have two valuable and important players that aren’t participating as they’re trying to go win a Super Bowl.
 
Top