4/14 GDT Son of Z

[Stokes1931]

Nice.

You guys think Helton makes the HOF?

Don't know. He has been the Rox franchise player. Lifetime 347 HRs, and a .322 average, with GG defense, career SLG of .971 (15th all time).

You could argue that his HR total is inflated by Coors, but he hit 212 HRs at home, and 135 on the road. That's a split, but not as severe as I had assumed.

A really good player. But in his era, was not a dominant 1B, like say, Pujols. So I would have to say "no" for the HOF for him.

 

[gp956]

Nice.

You guys think Helton makes the HOF?

No. You got the Coors field effect, also peaked in the steroid era, so once you league adjust his stats, he's more or less even with Will Clark (136 OPS+). And Will hasn't come close.

 

[gp956]

Don't know. He has been the Rox franchise player. Lifetime 347 HRs, and a .322 average, with GG defense, career SLG of .971 (15th all time).

You could argue that his HR total is inflated by Coors, but he hit 212 HRs at home, and 135 on the road. That's a split, but not as severe as I had assumed.

A really good player. But in his era, was not a dominant 1B, like say, Pujols. So I would have to say "no" for the HOF for him.

Larry Walker 383 HR, .313 AVG, .965 SLG (140 OPS+) <---- not yet a HOFer.

 

[Stokes1931]

Larry Walker 383 HR, .313 AVG, .965 SLG (140 OPS+) <---- not yet a HOFer.

Fair enough, but Walker started with the Expos, and Helton is not yet through with his career. Compared to other 1B of the era, I don't think he gets in. But for a couple of years, (he hit .372 with 47 homers once), he was dominant.

 

[tzill]

Excellent GDT lads...I think this will be Weezys second TJ surgery so I'm not sure he comes back. If he does, he won't be fully effective until 2014. In any event, his arb4 year just got real cheap.

Oh, and lastly:

Barry Zito

 

[MarcoPolo]

Excellent GDT lads...I think this will be Weezys second TJ surgery so I'm not sure he comes back. If he does, he won't be fully effective until 2014. In any event, his arb4 year just got real cheap.

I wouldn't call $6.8M cheap (that's the minimum the Giants can offer in arb, per the CBA : 80% of previous year's salary).

I expect Wilson to be non-tendered in December.

 

[the_broom]

I wouldn't call $6.8M cheap (that's the minimum the Giants can offer in arb, per the CBA : 80% of previous year's salary).

I expect Wilson to be non-tendered in December.

Ok...stop being sensible here...I keep agreeing with your posts and this is just not permissable on the internet...

 

[gp956]

I wouldn't call $6.8M cheap (that's the minimum the Giants can offer in arb, per the CBA : 80% of previous year's salary).

I expect Wilson to be non-tendered in December.

But they don't have to go to arbitration, do they? What does the CBA stipulate about a new contract while still in the arb years.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The *lowest* amount the Giants can offer a player not under contract and who would not be FA is 80% of the previous year's salary. Period. The only way around that is to make him a FA (by releasing him). But then it's the player's choice to sign with any team he wants - he's a FA.

 

[gp956]

The *lowest* amount the Giants can offer a player not under contract and who would not be FA is 80% of the previous year's salary. Period. The only way around that is to make him a FA (by releasing him). But then it's the player's choice to sign with any team he wants - he's a FA.

link?

 

[calsnowskier]

The *lowest* amount the Giants can offer a player not under contract and who would not be FA is 80% of the previous year's salary. Period. The only way around that is to make him a FA (by releasing him). But then it's the player's choice to sign with any team he wants - he's a FA.

By "offer", do you mean in the arb process, or offer, period? If Weez WANTED to sign, for example, a 1M deal, you are saying that is not possible? The Giants have to place him on waivers, then sign him if he clears?

 

[MarcoPolo]

link?

use google and search for "Collective bargaining agreement 2007". I did that several years ago and downloaded a copy of the CBA (I think from mlb.com). If you find a current link, others may be interested in having it as well.

The relevant section :

Article VI.

D. Maximum Salary Reduction
(1) A Club may not tender, sign or renew a Player under reserve to the Club pursuant to Article XX(A) of this Agreement and para- graph 10(a) of the Uniform Player’s Contract to a Uniform Player’s Contract that provides a salary for Major League service that con- stitutes a reduction in excess of 20% of his previous year’s salary or in excess of 30% of his salary two years previous.

 

[MarcoPolo]

By "offer", do you mean in the arb process, or offer, period? If Weez WANTED to sign, for example, a 1M deal, you are saying that is not possible? The Giants have to place him on waivers, then sign him if he clears?

They cannot offer a contract to a player *that is under their control* (i.e., not a free agent) that is 80% less than the previous year's salary. Period.

If the Wilson wants to sign a $1M contract, the Giants must release him first. Then, as a free agent, he is free to sign with any team (including the Giants) for any amount (well, above the minimum : about 500K in the majors).

Waivers aren't involved. They can just non-tender him in December.

 

[calsnowskier]

They cannot offer a contract to a player *that is under their control* (i.e., not a free agent) that is 80% less than the previous year's salary. Period.

If the Wilson wants to sign a $1M contract, the Giants must release him first. Then, as a free agent, he is free to sign with any team (including the Giants) for any amount (well, above the minimum : about 500K in the majors).

Waivers aren't involved. They can just non-tender him in December.

Interesting.

Thanks

 

[MarcoPolo]

use google and search for "Collective bargaining agreement 2007". I did that several years ago and downloaded a copy of the CBA (I think from mlb.com). If you find a current link, others may be interested in having it as well.

The relevant section :

Article VI.

D. Maximum Salary Reduction
(1) A Club may not tender, sign or renew a Player under reserve to the Club pursuant to Article XX(A) of this Agreement and para- graph 10(a) of the Uniform Player’s Contract to a Uniform Player’s Contract that provides a salary for Major League service that con- stitutes a reduction in excess of 20% of his previous year’s salary or in excess of 30% of his salary two years previous.

OK, since I just learned that there was a detail in the new CBA that I hadn't heard about, I went looking for it again.

I found the old one on mlb.com :
mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

and a "summary" of changes in the new one (2011) at :
mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/2011_CBA.pdf

That one does mention the "17% to 22%" change, at the top of the second page (marked page 4, interestingly).