2024 NBA Offseason

[shopson67]

They weren't hurt last year....were they? Only guy I can think of is Vanderbilt and I like him as a player....but he isnt changing anything in the W & L columns.

71 games out of Lebron and 76 out of Davis like they had last year is WAY more than I think you can even hope for in this upcoming season.

71 games out of Lebron last year is 5 more games last season than he has played in any of the 5 previous seasons.
76 games out of Davis is literally a career high for him.

There is more to the team than AD and Lebron. Those two indeed were about as healthy as can be expected.

Vando is their key defender, he definitely makes a difference in the W/L column. They were also missing their MLE signing Gabe Vincent for virtually the entire season, another defensive presence. They only got 50 games out of Wood, could've helped down the stretch (but that's a minor loss).

Essentially, if Vando and Vincent are healthy, they have 4 key additions to the roster compared to the majority of last season in Vando, Vincent, Knecht and Redick. They should also have Christie elevated over Reddish, another improvement.

 

[shopson67]

We debated that during the finals. I called them “super team adjacent”. In the new parity they are “super” but not sure they matchup with the 1996 Bulls or 2017 Warriors or 1985 Lakers or whatever. Perhaps the 2012 Heat or 2008 Celtics? They’re right on the border at the very least

Approx $175M per for their top 5 players puts them at "super team" IMO. Whether or not they continue to capitalize is a different argument.

 

[msgkings322]

Approx $175M per for their top 5 players puts them at "super team" IMO. Whether or not they continue to capitalize is a different argument.

I haven’t t really used that term to describe payroll. It’s about having at least 2 top 10 players and at least one other all star preferably two. Like I say they are close. Easily the most talent in the league now.

 

[The Q]

They weren't hurt last year....were they? Only guy I can think of is Vanderbilt and I like him as a player....but he isnt changing anything in the W & L columns.

71 games out of Lebron and 76 out of Davis like they had last year is WAY more than I think you can even hope for in this upcoming season.

71 games out of Lebron last year is 5 more games last season than he has played in any of the 5 previous seasons.
76 games out of Davis is literally a career high for him.

Vincent was also hurt or at least banged up basically all year and they used their big mle on him

 

[shopson67]

I haven’t t really used that term to describe payroll. It’s about having at least 2 top 10 players and at least one other all star preferably two. Like I say they are close. Easily the most talent in the league now.

Close enough that the argument is nitpicking IMO

 

[fightinfunbags]

Now that he self exiled from the PF we’re gonna have to be @fightinfunbags outlet for his hostility lol

You know that meme was funny haha

 

[fightinfunbags]

And trying to force parity through the cba hasn't really worked either. Money isn't the only reason that smaller markets don't get top FA's and often have to overpay the ones they do get. Young millionaires are always going to want to be in places like LA, Miami, etc. over smaller markets.

On the money side, even when smaller market teams get top players, they often can't or won't spend enough to put contending talent around them.

The best formula for small market teams is doing what OKC has done twice now...build through the draft and when the time comes that they have to make tough decisions...hope they make the right ones.

I don’t think this was about competition at all. I think that’s the smoke screen. I think like many other businesses the Covid Era isn’t looked at in terms of “we scraped and clawed and survived and let’s move on.” They’re chasing what they feel they were entitled to in terms of potential profits. They’ve artificially pulled back the cap growth as their chosen means to chase those lost profits they feel they’re entitled to. This is about dialing that stuff back so owners don’t have to be chastised for avoiding aprons and taxes. Now there is competitive teeth attached to these financial decisions.

I think the whole approach here is chasing lost potential money. I think that’s a large reason why inflation is as bad as it is world wide. I think many businesses are operating in this way.

 

[thunderc]

Cheap owners should sell if they can’t afford to be an owner and pay the tax to compete.

I get where you are coming from as a pure fan, but it’s not realistic. It’s likely going to hurt my team, but I don’t know how much tax they will be willing to pay anyway. If this has the effect of putting an emphasis on drafting and player development that is nothing but a good thing in my eyes. Anything that improves competitive balance works for me.

 

[wildturkey]

This looks...surprisingly decent

 

[logic]

And trying to force parity through the cba hasn't really worked either. Money isn't the only reason that smaller markets don't get top FA's and often have to overpay the ones they do get. Young millionaires are always going to want to be in places like LA, Miami, etc. over smaller markets.

On the money side, even when smaller market teams get top players, they often can't or won't spend enough to put contending talent around them.

The best formula for small market teams is doing what OKC has done twice now...build through the draft and when the time comes that they have to make tough decisions...hope they make the right ones.

While all this is true, if glamor teams can't afford to pay them will they really refuse to do a few years for a ton of money in a smaller market and compete until something opens up on one of the glamor spots?

 

[trojanfan12]

While all this is true, if glamor teams can't afford to pay them will they really refuse to do a few years for a ton of money in a smaller market and compete until something opens up on one of the glamor spots?

They can and sometimes do. You even have ones like Dame who will stay in a small market for several years. But that's where the issue of they won't or can't spend the money to put contending talent around them comes in.

 

[thunderc]

They can and sometimes do. You even have ones like Dame who will stay in a small market for several years. But that's where the issue of they won't or can't spend the money to put contending talent around them comes in.

The whole “contending talent” thing got a bit overblown to me. No reason for a system that require you to go way in the hole to compete. Spread the talent around a bit more like the NFL. It will take a few years to right the ship I think.

 

[dtgold88]

Did they really make you the bookie?

Ffs

Maybe someone posted but if not had heard Clips may have been kicking tires on a sign and trade for Okoro (along with usual suspects).

 

[logic]

They can and sometimes do. You even have ones like Dame who will stay in a small market for several years. But that's where the issue of they won't or can't spend the money to put contending talent around them comes in.

But that is what this is trying to do. Make it so those that would spend money and pay tax to win are on a more level playing field than those that want to stay under the tax.

Parity is good for the league, unless you are a Lakers, Celtics, or Heat fan. Just look how happy everyone was that small market Indiana took out big market New York this postseason. The only thing I didn't like about it is having to see so much Reggie Miller

 

[shopson67]

I get where you are coming from as a pure fan, but it’s not realistic. It’s likely going to hurt my team, but I don’t know how much tax they will be willing to pay anyway. If this has the effect of putting an emphasis on drafting and player development that is nothing but a good thing in my eyes. Anything that improves competitive balance works for me.

If you want to improve competitive balance, a simple hard cap and dumping the lottery would be simple adjustments. When teams consistently struggle and lose but still end up outside of the top 3 picks despite their record, who is that helping? The league is more worried about appearances (tanking) than supporting the struggling franchises. Adding more clauses, exceptions, aprons, and regulations is just overly complicating the matter. A simple hard cap (higher than the current one of course to make up for the loss of the exceptions et al) with a corresponding hard floor to ensure teams are truly trying to build competitive rosters.

The smoothing is stupid too, but owners can't be trusted with cap space apparently. If it's there, they will spend it (and often badly). Any teams that can't afford to compete should be sold, redacted and/or moved. The league shouldn't be about who can freely spend the most, but it can't be about making profit sharing a form of welfare either.

 

[thunderc]

If you want to improve competitive balance, a simple hard cap and dumping the lottery would be simple adjustments. When teams consistently struggle and lose but still end up outside of the top 3 picks despite their record, who is that helping? The league is more worried about appearances (tanking) than supporting the struggling franchises. Adding more clauses, exceptions, aprons, and regulations is just overly complicating the matter. A simple hard cap (higher than the current one of course to make up for the loss of the exceptions et al) with a corresponding hard floor to ensure teams are truly trying to build competitive rosters.

The smoothing is stupid too, but owners can't be trusted with cap space apparently. If it's there, they will spend it (and often badly). Any teams that can't afford to compete should be sold, redacted and/or moved. The league shouldn't be about who can freely spend the most, but it can't be about making profit sharing a form of welfare either.

There is a 90 percent of the cap spend requirement. That’s enough.

 

[logic]

If you want to improve competitive balance, a simple hard cap and dumping the lottery would be simple adjustments. When teams consistently struggle and lose but still end up outside of the top 3 picks despite their record, who is that helping? The league is more worried about appearances (tanking) than supporting the struggling franchises. Adding more clauses, exceptions, aprons, and regulations is just overly complicating the matter. A simple hard cap (higher than the current one of course to make up for the loss of the exceptions et al) with a corresponding hard floor to ensure teams are truly trying to build competitive rosters.

The smoothing is stupid too, but owners can't be trusted with cap space apparently. If it's there, they will spend it (and often badly). Any teams that can't afford to compete should be sold, redacted and/or moved. The league shouldn't be about who can freely spend the most, but it can't be about making profit sharing a form of welfare either.

The Pistons likely would not have been helped by your solution because of our owner. It is not that he is not willing to pay, it is that he meddles in the wrong way and listens to too many or the wrong people. We have had some poor lottery draws since getting Cade #1, but have gotten what I feel are good players. Gores simply has installed coaches that have not developed and used that talent well and been satisfied with a training staff that keeps no one in shape or healthy. It has been such a dumpster fire that FA and draft prospects won't even work out for Detroit. So far I have been happy with what Trajan has done, but we still have a lot of very raw talent to develop and a short window before Cade demands to be traded. Hopefully the JB and his crew are up to it and Gores can let people do their jobs for a change.

 

[Retroram52]

There is more to the team than AD and Lebron. Those two indeed were about as healthy as can be expected.

Vando is their key defender, he definitely makes a difference in the W/L column. They were also missing their MLE signing Gabe Vincent for virtually the entire season, another defensive presence. They only got 50 games out of Wood, could've helped down the stretch (but that's a minor loss).

Essentially, if Vando and Vincent are healthy, they have 4 key additions to the roster compared to the majority of last season in Vando, Vincent, Knecht and Redick. They should also have Christie elevated over Reddish, another improvement.

Redick isn't a player. He is the HC. I think you know that...

 

[dtgold88]

Yep thats the only other thing i do there.

This the forum where I first spoke to you?

 

[Shanemansj13]