2023 offseason thread

[shopson67]

Wonder if the Hawks might use that trade exception to add a player.....

IMO, the only question is HOW MUCH of that trade exception they use...

 

[DJ Fieri]

Bobby Marks thinks Houston should use their salary cap space on FVV, Dillon Brooks and Bruce Brown.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I like @ducky ’s comment on this. The CBA stuff impacts those over the luxury tax. Atlanta was never going to be a luxury tax team. It’s still an economic decision but one that would have existed without the CBA. At the same time, if someone wants to argue that Collins in the new NBA economy isn’t worth that value of 3 years 78 million left then I see that as being more on the player in the eyes of GMs or the Hawks organization for giving him that deal.

 

[msgkings322]

Dumb fuck.

At absolute worst, he’d be Lauri Markennan.

Say, wasn’t that guy Allstar material?

And wasn't Bird a better passer than Markannen?

Rodman goes to far with this but the idea isn't all wrong. The 80s were a long time ago and the athleticism and skill has increased league wide, not to mention now the best athletes all over the world play. A lot of greats from the past wouldn't be as dominant today. We say this about Bill Russell all the time, for example.

 

[dtgold88]

lol

Dennis has done a few too many jell-o shots.

Didn't Dennis also say at one point that if Bird were black, he'd just be another good player?

Defensively, he'd likely struggle more because he lacks athleticism and you can't really be physical with guys anymore. He'd be relying a lot on intelligence and moving his feet.

But offensively, under today's rules, he might be even better because teams wouldn't be able to be as physical with him and he'd lean into the 3 more. His passing would help tremendously as well because it makes it harder to double him.

I do recall the "if he were black" quote...think it was Isaiah Thomas (also think likely someone mentioned that).

 

[Mebert]

And wasn't Bird a better passer than Markannen?

Rodman goes to far with this but the idea isn't all wrong. The 80s were a long time ago and the athleticism and skill has increased league wide, not to mention now the best athletes all over the world play. A lot of greats from the past wouldn't be as dominant today. We say this about Bill Russell all the time, for example.

The athleticism is an interesting debate. Is the league more athletic now because of evolution over 40 years? Or is it a product of modern diet and training, as well as youth being put into leagues year round from an early age.

Is Bird in the modern machine a far superior athlete than 80s Bird? I think so. Obviously everyone still has a cap for max athleticism, so I doubt in any generation Bird is elite or even great athlete, but I think no matter the generation he is a good athlete.

 

[msgkings322]

The athleticism is an interesting debate. Is the league more athletic now because of evolution over 40 years? Or is it a product of modern diet and training, as well as youth being put into leagues year round from an early age.

Is Bird in the modern machine a far superior athlete than 80s Bird? I think so. Obviously everyone still has a cap for max athleticism, so I doubt in any generation Bird is elite or even great athlete, but I think no matter the generation he is a good athlete.

Obviously he was a top level athlete compared to humanity, every NBA player is and was. But what would he look like with today's culture of training and diet? I mean, he's not going to be LeBron, or KD...I don't think he wins 3 straight MVPs today for sure.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Getting hungry.

 

[dtgold88]

The athleticism is an interesting debate. Is the league more athletic now because of evolution over 40 years? Or is it a product of modern diet and training, as well as youth being put into leagues year round from an early age.

Is Bird in the modern machine a far superior athlete than 80s Bird? I think so. Obviously everyone still has a cap for max athleticism, so I doubt in any generation Bird is elite or even great athlete, but I think no matter the generation he is a good athlete.

Something else I'd wonder is if the world of load management might have allowed Bird to play longer.

Not on Bird's level but selfishly also wonder if it would have prevented Brad Daugherty from having to retire at such an incredibly young age (only 28)

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I like @ducky ’s comment on this. The CBA stuff impacts those over the luxury tax. Atlanta was never going to be a luxury tax team. It’s still an economic decision but one that would have existed without the CBA. At the same time, if someone wants to argue that Collins in the new NBA economy isn’t worth that value of 3 years 78 million left then I see that as being more on the player in the eyes of GMs or the Hawks organization for giving him that deal.

 

[thunderc]

The athleticism is an interesting debate. Is the league more athletic now because of evolution over 40 years? Or is it a product of modern diet and training, as well as youth being put into leagues year round from an early age.

Is Bird in the modern machine a far superior athlete than 80s Bird? I think so. Obviously everyone still has a cap for max athleticism, so I doubt in any generation Bird is elite or even great athlete, but I think no matter the generation he is a good athlete.

Top 5 all time player in any generation, period.

 

[fightinfunbags]

And wasn't Bird a better passer than Markannen?

Rodman goes to far with this but the idea isn't all wrong. The 80s were a long time ago and the athleticism and skill has increased league wide, not to mention now the best athletes all over the world play. A lot of greats from the past wouldn't be as dominant today. We say this about Bill Russell all the time, for example.

Exactly. Personally, as a sports fan, I don’t see it (despite the fact that I’ll engage in GOAT discussion etc…). It’s almost impossible to take players out of eras and project them to today. Bird wasn’t athletic by the 1980s standards either. For me, when he doesn’t play a high flying game it actually becomes easier to project an all timer to being able to assimilate to the modern game. Maybe he isn’t an all timer but I have no doubt he’s an All Star. Guys like Bird are just driven to be the best. No doubt in mind Larry Bird would have still been great if you also grant him access to strength and conditioning, modern skill development training, sports science in nutrition etc…

 

[fightinfunbags]

The athleticism is an interesting debate. Is the league more athletic now because of evolution over 40 years? Or is it a product of modern diet and training, as well as youth being put into leagues year round from an early age.

Is Bird in the modern machine a far superior athlete than 80s Bird? I think so. Obviously everyone still has a cap for max athleticism, so I doubt in any generation Bird is elite or even great athlete, but I think no matter the generation he is a good athlete.

And…got Ninjaed.

 

[Mebert]

Something else I'd wonder is if the world of load management might have allowed Bird to play longer.

Not on Bird's level but selfishly also wonder if it would have prevented Brad Daugherty from having to retire at such an incredibly young age (only 28)

In Birds case he destroyed his back building his mom a driveway. It was so bad he lost structural integrity. Unless there is a new surgery that could have repaired it better I am not sure modern medicine helps all that much. For many others I am not so sure. Curry for example started his career injury prone, the Warriors figured out it was not a leg issue, but a core muscle issue. In an earlier age I don't think that is found out. Hell, even in the modern age if The twolves draft him it is likely not getting corrected either.

At least that is what a tell myself. Makes me feel better.

 

[msgkings322]

Exactly. Personally, as a sports fan, I don’t see it (despite the fact that I’ll engage in GOAT discussion etc…). It’s almost impossible to take players out of eras and project them to today. Bird wasn’t athletic by the 1980s standards either. For me, when he doesn’t play a high flying game it actually becomes easier to project an all timer to being able to assimilate to the modern game. Maybe he isn’t an all timer but I have no doubt he’s an All Star. Guys like Bird are just driven to be the best. No doubt in mind Larry Bird would have still been great if you also grant him access to strength and conditioning, modern skill development training, sports science in nutrition etc…

Yes I agree, multi all star today, probably HOFer still, but not top 10 all time

 

[msgkings322]

Top 5 all time player in any generation, period.

Gotta disagree there. HOFer any era for sure.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yes I agree, multi all star today, probably HOFer still, but not top 10 all time

I think his biggest issue would be his defense trying to handle really athletic wings.

 

[thunderc]

Gotta disagree there. HOFer any era for sure.

You are entitled to be wrong, the player that can stop Bird at his best hasn’t been born yet.

 

[msgkings322]

You are entitled to be wrong, the player that can stop Bird at his best hasn’t been born yet.

Yes we know your schtick. I'll move off your lawn now. Kawhi is just one player that comes to mind who could handle Bird.

 

[msgkings322]

I think his biggest issue would be his defense trying to handle really athletic wings.

And dealing with really athletic wings defending him, like Kawhi. Wonder how Pippen would have done defending him if their primes matched up.